It's never a bad idea to use a cable with a ferrite bead on it, but honestly unless the USB implementation is pretty broken (see: earlier Schiit stuff) it's probably not going to show up in any way in the audio signal. Topping knows what they're doing re: USB.
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Do USB Audio Cables Make A Difference?
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Hi
Having heard what a difference my QED XLR cable made to my new system, I decided to try and see what difference a quality USB cable would make.
As a reference, I was using a Squeezebox Touch with the enhanced USB output providing 192Khz into a Cambridge Audio 851N streamer with an inline AudioQuest Jitterbug, then a Cambridge Audio 851W power amplifier. The Squeezbox is a great device and playing streamed music is a doddle, whereas the 851N is a bit clunky and unintuitive; hence my intention to keep using the Squeezebox.
The system is connected using HIFi power cables & connectors, inline mains filtering plus and ifi digital mains filter. All the spare ports are blanked off using prorietary blanking plugs, and yes it all makes difference and improves the sound quality!
As an aside, I tried bypassing my Cat6 ethernet with Cat8 and this made such a difference I changed it all to Cat8, and all for less than the cost of a medium priced USB cable!
I used the existing eBay cable and powered hub because of a legacy issue with my previous Rotel RA-1592 amplifier.
I found no difference when using an eBay cable connected directly without the powered hub.
I did find an improvement when using the Jitterbug.
Following online reviews I opted for a Audioquest Cinnamon cable which I burned in over 48 hours by running a signal through it without the power amp being on.
I was disappointed with the presentation. The soundstage was marginally wider, with a marginal improvement in detail but the overall sound was fatiguing and lacked 'musicality'. I certainly would not be happy listening to the presentation over a few hours. A handful of sample tracks was enough to convince me that this cable was not for me. The jitterbug didn't seem to make any difference to this cable's sound. If you listen to Bjork's Big Time Sensuality, the cymbal was brittle and sounded artificial when compared to the true ring from the eBay cable. Similarly, ACDC's Givin' The Dog A Bone seem to contain more of the strings being struck but again with a brittle and artificial presentation.
Undeterred, I decided to try other options, and attempted to order a selection from Futureshop before returning this cable to them. They refused to send me my selection from several manufacturers up to a £150 price range (the most I would be willing to pay). This is what they told me:
"Many of the cables on your list are made from very similar materials and construction and in our experience working with these cables over the past 15 years the sonic performance is very similar. This is why we offer advice and guidance and in your case, we can potentially narrow the list down to around three based on the fact that they are made from different materials."
So, it would appear that despite the many options and claims from manufacturers', the difference is down to materials. You should bear in mind that in mind when a £900 usb cable is made from similar materials to a £50 one, and in their opinion will not sound any different.
I will continue to look around and see if I can improve the USB sound, but first I think I will try streaming directly from my PC using some apps that claim to improve the sound and see what the price comparison is.
Having heard what a difference my QED XLR cable made to my new system, I decided to try and see what difference a quality USB cable would make.
As a reference, I was using a Squeezebox Touch with the enhanced USB output providing 192Khz into a Cambridge Audio 851N streamer with an inline AudioQuest Jitterbug, then a Cambridge Audio 851W power amplifier. The Squeezbox is a great device and playing streamed music is a doddle, whereas the 851N is a bit clunky and unintuitive; hence my intention to keep using the Squeezebox.
The system is connected using HIFi power cables & connectors, inline mains filtering plus and ifi digital mains filter. All the spare ports are blanked off using prorietary blanking plugs, and yes it all makes difference and improves the sound quality!
As an aside, I tried bypassing my Cat6 ethernet with Cat8 and this made such a difference I changed it all to Cat8, and all for less than the cost of a medium priced USB cable!
I used the existing eBay cable and powered hub because of a legacy issue with my previous Rotel RA-1592 amplifier.
I found no difference when using an eBay cable connected directly without the powered hub.
I did find an improvement when using the Jitterbug.
Following online reviews I opted for a Audioquest Cinnamon cable which I burned in over 48 hours by running a signal through it without the power amp being on.
I was disappointed with the presentation. The soundstage was marginally wider, with a marginal improvement in detail but the overall sound was fatiguing and lacked 'musicality'. I certainly would not be happy listening to the presentation over a few hours. A handful of sample tracks was enough to convince me that this cable was not for me. The jitterbug didn't seem to make any difference to this cable's sound. If you listen to Bjork's Big Time Sensuality, the cymbal was brittle and sounded artificial when compared to the true ring from the eBay cable. Similarly, ACDC's Givin' The Dog A Bone seem to contain more of the strings being struck but again with a brittle and artificial presentation.
Undeterred, I decided to try other options, and attempted to order a selection from Futureshop before returning this cable to them. They refused to send me my selection from several manufacturers up to a £150 price range (the most I would be willing to pay). This is what they told me:
"Many of the cables on your list are made from very similar materials and construction and in our experience working with these cables over the past 15 years the sonic performance is very similar. This is why we offer advice and guidance and in your case, we can potentially narrow the list down to around three based on the fact that they are made from different materials."
So, it would appear that despite the many options and claims from manufacturers', the difference is down to materials. You should bear in mind that in mind when a £900 usb cable is made from similar materials to a £50 one, and in their opinion will not sound any different.
I will continue to look around and see if I can improve the USB sound, but first I think I will try streaming directly from my PC using some apps that claim to improve the sound and see what the price comparison is.
Hope it works out.
Not sure if this is a joke/troll, or what, but if not I hope you keep reading about what can matter and what can't, and how to implement controls on your listening comparisons.
Not sure if this is a joke/troll, or what, but if not I hope you keep reading about what can matter and what can't, and how to implement controls on your listening comparisons.
michman66
Member
I can attest to the quality and improvement with the Supra USB cable. I replaced an entry level Straight Wire which I was very happy with. I read some reviews on the Supra. Its not expensive, it's a sleeper of a great cable.
Next, I bought some of their power cable bulk and made 2 power cables. I replaced 1 at a time and again there was a nice improvement. LoRad 2.5. Purchased at Madisound. I'm making 2 more to replace the other 2.
Next, I bought some of their power cable bulk and made 2 power cables. I replaced 1 at a time and again there was a nice improvement. LoRad 2.5. Purchased at Madisound. I'm making 2 more to replace the other 2.
michman66
Member
Why, we all have our opinions and convictions. Pick your own poison.
I agree, but on a science based forum, opinions will always be treated with lots of skepticism without some form of scientific explanation of what is leading to the anecdotal improvements or some experimentation under certain criteria to test it’s not simply placebo effect and confirmation bias etc.
Not worth heat. Nobody is being a jerk...
Any controls involved?
Might be tough to convince many around here without some kind of blind/level matched process... Which would also likely show those differences disappear.
KSTR
Major Contributor
Those are reports of listening impressions, and as such they are facts of psychology of perception (people actually did have that listening impression, not faking the reports).
We know perception can and will differ even with no technical change of signal whatsoever, but then signal change is what we are looking for, here in this forum. Technical signal change leading to repeatable and significant differences of listening impressions, and only because of the technical change and nothing else.
Hence, those reports are not about physical hearing facts. These facts, threshold values typically, can only be established in controlled blind test studies, preferably with top scientific rigor. A lot of effort and thus seldom seen.
On the other hand, Amir and others are doing their best to provide measurements and data that strongly suggest that, say, any properly spec'd USB cable does not make an actual difference in the final DACs analog output. But this cannot be proven as a general rule. In real-life complex system hookups, the power supplies give rise to "mains balancing currents", plus we might have a lot of RF flying around. There are chances that a technically lesser cable (shielding properties) leads to actual measurable degradation of the analog signal vs a well-designed cable. Noise and EMC properties matter, as much as they do inside the devices. To dig in deeper with measurements here requires some specialized test jigs and it is some work to get it stable and reliable.
IMHO no way out and therefore no need to sharpen swords. It's not going to lead anywhere else, set aside we all get aware of the above constraints.
We know perception can and will differ even with no technical change of signal whatsoever, but then signal change is what we are looking for, here in this forum. Technical signal change leading to repeatable and significant differences of listening impressions, and only because of the technical change and nothing else.
Hence, those reports are not about physical hearing facts. These facts, threshold values typically, can only be established in controlled blind test studies, preferably with top scientific rigor. A lot of effort and thus seldom seen.
On the other hand, Amir and others are doing their best to provide measurements and data that strongly suggest that, say, any properly spec'd USB cable does not make an actual difference in the final DACs analog output. But this cannot be proven as a general rule. In real-life complex system hookups, the power supplies give rise to "mains balancing currents", plus we might have a lot of RF flying around. There are chances that a technically lesser cable (shielding properties) leads to actual measurable degradation of the analog signal vs a well-designed cable. Noise and EMC properties matter, as much as they do inside the devices. To dig in deeper with measurements here requires some specialized test jigs and it is some work to get it stable and reliable.
IMHO no way out and therefore no need to sharpen swords. It's not going to lead anywhere else, set aside we all get aware of the above constraints.
michman66
Member
I agree. I trust my brain and ears, with 55 years of playing live music being able to discern small differences better, neutral or worse
Sure, but they are of limited value to others.
I guess you missed the "Science" part in the name of this forum?
the_hamster 2
Member
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Cross-posted from a “humor” thread:
Early in this thread, there was a link to this “Audio Bacon” site, in the context of “audiophile” Ethernet cables, and the virtues of a $1000 “Jcat Signature” number being evaluated...what struck me whilst reading the article was this:
The inexpensive Supra CAT8 Ethernet cable (~$50) is a great place to start. If you can’t hear the difference there – consider yourself lucky
I would perform measurements, but it’s more efficient for me to listen, describe what I hear, and decide what I prefer. And continue on with my journey. That is the way of the Audio Bacon.
I submit that this is the defining philosophy of audiophilism, and nothing - NOTHING - will ever dislodge an adherent from the position.
https://audiobacon.net/2019/11/02/the-jcat-signature-lan-a-1000-ethernet-cable/amp/
Early in this thread, there was a link to this “Audio Bacon” site, in the context of “audiophile” Ethernet cables, and the virtues of a $1000 “Jcat Signature” number being evaluated...what struck me whilst reading the article was this:
The inexpensive Supra CAT8 Ethernet cable (~$50) is a great place to start. If you can’t hear the difference there – consider yourself lucky
I would perform measurements, but it’s more efficient for me to listen, describe what I hear, and decide what I prefer. And continue on with my journey. That is the way of the Audio Bacon.
I submit that this is the defining philosophy of audiophilism, and nothing - NOTHING - will ever dislodge an adherent from the position.
https://audiobacon.net/2019/11/02/the-jcat-signature-lan-a-1000-ethernet-cable/amp/
Last edited:
KSTR
Major Contributor
All this sketchy audiophile stuff is a hobby for some, with a recreational aspect. As such there are no constraints by definition as long no-one "gets hurt".
This is capitalism, so what... it's not what they are selling, it's what you're buying.
The mission of this forum is to make us aware of what we are actually buying, what to expect in technical terms, but also in perceived sound character (for speakers and such).
This is capitalism, so what... it's not what they are selling, it's what you're buying.
The mission of this forum is to make us aware of what we are actually buying, what to expect in technical terms, but also in perceived sound character (for speakers and such).
You are forgetting the constraints imposed by those old-fashioned silly things called "science", "physics" and "reality".
the_hamster 2
Member
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“I know what I hear and I’m sticking with it” is the line I usually get from my high-end audio mates. Perceptual/confirmation bias? Nope, not happening here. Auditory memory? Perfect, you can really hear the difference when swapping [...] cables. A/B/X testing? When practical.
It is what it is, their faith is unshakeable.
It is what it is, their faith is unshakeable.
Dismayed
Senior Member
I only trust brains when testing is blind with volume levels matched to 0.1 dB.
Lying and cheating people out of their money is not "capitalism", in fact it can be illegal.
Fraudulent claims are thrown around without fear of reprisal in this industry but that doesn't make it OK.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
I can hear it too.... all you deniers.. your systems are simply not revealing enough. And your ears and brains are not trained. Only musicians can hear this (but usually have cheap crap systems because they are more into other aspects of performance). Measurements are not complete enough. There are things we cannot measure. You guys are all jealous of those that can hear these things clearly... like me. It's so obvious I don't need no stinking AB tests. These tests are flawed anyway. The brain is mysterious, we basically know almost nothing. Just like the universe and other things we know nothing about. The hearing is far more complex and revealing than any test device. You guys are not interested in listening to music but only look at graphs. You guys have cloth ears and don't recognize the subtleties in music. MQA does sound better because I can clearly hear it. There is no smearing at all. By the way I can perceive sounds well above 100kHz.
Finally got this of my chest..
Finally got this of my chest..
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