Was this aimed at ASR?

[watchnerd]

You can do all that in an hour? Damn, I'm a slacker.

If it's a steak and sides, yes.

Spaghetti carbonara, yes.

Paella? No.

 

[raistlin65]

Because many of that manufacturer's products do nothing, and it's important to make sure that prospective buyers know that.

Exactly.

And when someone's seeking recommendations on this website, others may be following the discussion seeking to learn from it themselves.

And isn't that a major reason why people come here to seek purchase advice recommendations? To get the best performance value for the money?

 

[watchnerd]

Exactly.

And when someone's seeking recommendations on this website, others may be following the discussion seeking to learn from it themselves.

And isn't that a major reason why people come here to seek purchase advice recommendations? To get the best performance value for the money?

I guess we all have different intrinsic motivations.

I didn't get into audio because I wanted to have a hobby as a consumer protection activist.

But I guess that's an angle.

 

[raistlin65]

You have a level of outrage that I don't share.

But if that gives you a sense of purpose, have at it.

Personally, I've only got so many hours in the day.

There are so many things I'd rather focus on in my own life -- educating myself, spending time with friends and family, exercising, training for competition, eating right, my investments, enjoying nature, environmental cleanup, rescuing animals, hunting, volunteering at the symphony, playing my bass, working my land, chopping wood for the winter.

Do I want to spend an hour arguing with PS Audio fans about why they're deluded?

Or would i rather, in that same hour, chop some wood, make a fire in the fireplace, put on some music, and make a nice meal?

Then why are you even participating in this discussion? It's not clear at all what you perceive as the exigency for your participation.

If you don't care whether or not people are misled into spending their money on something that does not perform as claimed, why do you care that others do care?

It seems contrary to your explanation that you're only interests are in activities that are self-serving. Or maybe is it that your purpose is to evangelize that we should all only focus on activities which are self-serving?

 

[watchnerd]

Then why are you even participating in this discussion?

Are you suggesting I don't have a right to participate in this discussion unless my motives are explained to you?

 

[MediumRare]

It is both more than that and is that at the same time.

The second definition you have given is a very modern metaphorical usage, where a thing is being described as like a religion. At the same time, it's usage is usually attributed by an outsider to a group in a derogatory way who typically would not themselves describe it as a religion.

So it's not useful at all for talking about religion versus tribalism in any way that allows one to examine the differences between how a group maybe exhibit tribalistic behaviors versus how their culture surrounding the thing is a religion. It's only useful in a soundbite kind of a way that indicates fanaticism. In which case, to be more precise about what one means, one should probably stick with the term fanaticism.

Interesting concordance here.
noun: fanatic; plural noun: fanatics

1. a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.
   "religious fanatics"

mid 16th century (as an adjective): from French fanatique or Latin fanaticus ‘of a temple, inspired by a god’, from fanum ‘temple’. The adjective originally described behavior that might result from possession by a god or demon, hence the earliest sense of the noun ‘a religious maniac’

 

[oldsysop]

rescuing animals, hunting,

 

[watchnerd]

Not the same animal.

I don't rescue creatures, then eat them.

 

[raistlin65]

Are you suggesting I don't have a right to participate in this discussion unless my motives are explained to you?

Obviously not. I asked what the exigency was for your participation, based on the fact that you don't care what people buy?

But I could see how you might want to deflect from answering.

 

[watchnerd]

Obviously not. I asked what the exigency was for your participation, based on the fact that you don't care what people buy?

But I could see how you might want to deflect from answering.

Why participate?

Because I think some of the dog piling masquerades as consumer activism, when it's really just nastiness for the usual ugly reasons.

And I don't like belonging to communities that encourage nastiness via group dynamics.

That's not to say that everyone who advocates for consumers is being nasty.

But some people just like to fight....and will find a rationale or excuse to justify it.

 

[raistlin65]

Why participate?

Because I think some of the dog piling masquerades as consumer activism, when it's really just nastiness for the usual ugly reasons.

And I don't like belonging to communities that encourage nastiness via group dynamics.

That's not to say that everyone who advocates for consumers is being nasty.

But some people just like to fight....and will find a rationale or excuse to justify it.

Ok. I agree that some of the dogpiling is over the top and unnecessary.

But I don't think it's "just nastiness for the usual ugly reasons." I'm sure a lot of it comes from disgust with manufacturers and their advertisers who practice deception in the marketing of audio products.

I guess since you don't see a problem with that, it would be hard to empathize with how others feel.

 

[raif71]

Mayhaps @watchnerd has found the zen on how he sees things. Kudos to him. Of course not many can achieve this and thank god not all have the zen coz otherwise the world would be a sterile and barren land.

 

[Helicopter]

Ok ok ok, but that new cable thread is funny, and I suspect the OP there made it so intentionally.

I like a good fight, but not every fight, or a fight for its own sake. And internet fights are usually lame compared to some consensual scrapping. Too bad I am not getting younger.

Lots of good points here.

I had to unfollow that DAC thread because it was too much. I don't want to ruin a good discussion. It was only after someone pointed it out that I realized the original title was what attracted all the blazing crusaders.

I agree with watchnerd, this forum is not a place where I am going to have strong negative emotions. I also really don't have a problem with people freely selling and buying and trying to enjoy mystical garbage.

I mostly enjoy this forum because the bar is high. There are a lot of really smart people here and I love that interaction. It is great compamy for learning, joking around, and having fun.

 

[watchnerd]

Ok. I agree that some of the dogpiling is over the top and unnecessary.

But I don't think it's "just nastiness for the usual ugly reasons." I'm sure a lot of it comes from disgust with manufacturers and their advertisers who practice deception in the marketing of audio products.

I guess since you don't see a problem with that, it would be hard to empathize with how others feel.

It's not a matter of lack of empathy.

Nor some kind of tactic approval of the behavior of the manufacturers.

But nothing has changed after decades.

My attitude now is a recognition that this, is in fact, the way the world is -- a substantial chunk of people like believing in fantasy.

And if that brings them happiness, I can accept that.

Educating those who want to give up the fantasy is great.

But I don't think brow-beating people, ridiculing them, assuming they're stupid, or foolish, advances the case.

 

[scott wurcer]

Educating those who want to give up the fantasy is great.

But I don't think brow-beating people, ridiculing them, assuming they're stupid, or foolish, advances the case.

Why just fantasy, if someone wants that 0.5% second harmonic who cares move on?

 

[Helicopter]

Why just fantasy, if someone wants that 0.5% second harmonic who cares move on?

I agree but don't think you will get dogpiled for saying you like tubes as long as you don't claim some superior sound reproduction characteristic.

 

[watchnerd]

Why just fantasy, if someone wants that 0.5% second harmonic who cares move on?

Absolutely.

After all, in addition to digital, I also listen to LP and R2R. I probably unconsciously like the extra distortion, tape compression, etc.

 

[raistlin65]

But I don't think brow-beating people, ridiculing them, assuming they're stupid, or foolish, advances the case.

I didn't say that it did. In fact, I just agreed with you in my previous comment that it was over the top and unnecessary. So I'm not sure why you are circling back to something that we agree upon.

It's not a matter of lack of empathy.

Nor some kind of tactic approval of the behavior of the manufacturers.

I don't think it necessarily comes across that way.

You were quite apathetic and dismissive to @Dialectic who was sharing his feelings about those deceptive practices.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s-this-aimed-at-asr.14717/page-31#post-606835
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s-this-aimed-at-asr.14717/page-32#post-606847

But nothing has changed after decades.

I'm surprised by this. I would have thought all regular members here on ASR would recognize that Amir's and other community members' efforts have initiated change. I would say that there is plenty of evidence this is happening, but that seems a topic for another discussion.

My attitude now is a recognition that this, is in fact, the way the world is -- a substantial chunk of people like believing in fantasy.

And if that brings them happiness, I can accept that.

Educating those who want to give up the fantasy is great.

Engaging with an audiophile who seems already entrenched in their beliefs is not necessarily about changing their minds. In an Internet forum, it's is for the benefit of those who are reading along. There's almost always a much bigger audience than simply those engaged in the discussion. So someone is always potentially being educated.

 

[Robin L]

I'm surprised by this. I would have thought all regular members here on ASR would recognize that Amir's and other community members' efforts have initiated change. I would say that there is plenty of evidence this is happening, but that seems a topic for another discussion.

Not really, the OP concerns yet another Jim Austin piece reacting to The Rise Of The Objectivists! [organ stab], of which this forum is obviously a part of.

Thus the lede.

 

[raistlin65]

Not really, the OP concerns yet another Jim Austin piece reacting to The Rise Of The Objectivists! [organ stab], of which this forum is obviously a part of.

Thus the lede.

Yep. More evidence. 10 to 15 years ago, subjectivists like Austin largely ignored objectivism. Now they have to confront it (take swipes at it).

Times are a changing.