Perceived Recording Fidelity

[stoo23]

Interesting comments regarding one's 'Perception' with open or closed eyes etc.
One rather famous (to say the least) Recording Engineer, ... Bruce Swedien, was well known for both Mixing with the lights down low and for checking his 'Mixes', with the lights OFF

He also, famously, Hated 'Compression' and would use it Only sparingly, when required and invariably to control or help create a specific Sound or Quality.
He was VERY Much a 'Hand's-On' type of guy, reminiscent of those old photos of the Beatles in the control room helping to move the Faders as George Only had 2 x hands lol

He used the Faders to control levels TO Tape and when Mixing, both the Faders and later Automation to provide the Dynamics of a Mix,..
Invariably his stuff was Mastered by another Stupidly famous individual, Bernie Grundman although, as he often joked, his stuff already Sounded like a record when it went to Bernie,.. LOL

No 'Loudness Wars' or OTT Lufs processing going on in his mixes
Thriller, and Give me the Night as a couple of examples

 

[levimax]

proof positive we hear with our eyes as well as our ears

 

[stoo23]

Having worked for so many years in both Studio work, Live performances and touring and live recording, there often IS a LOT to be said for the 'Less is More' school !!

Earlier, reference was made to some of the work of John Cuniberti with his "OneMic" Project, which invariably uses an AEA R88 Stereo Ribbon Microphone.
Whilst the Stereo stuff, is wonderful, I was literally 'stunned' by this MONO recording, using an AEA R44 'Bi-Directional' mic', being a version of an old RCA ribbon mic.
The 'presence' and dynamics are simply wonderful !!

 

[Blumlein 88]

Having worked for so many years in both Studio work, Live performances and touring and live recording, there often IS a LOT to be said for the 'Less is More' school !!

Earlier, reference was made to some of the work of John Cuniberti with his "OneMic" Project, which invariably uses an AEA Stereo Ribbon Microphone.
Whilst the Stereo stuff, is wonderful, I was literally 'stunned' by this MONO recording, using an AEA R44 Omni mic', being a version of an old RCA ribbon mic.
The 'presence' and dynamics are simply wonderful !!

How did they make an omni ribbon? Is it combining two ribbons at 90 degrees or did he just use it that way? I guess that would be a pseudo-omni. Just looks like using both of sides of a ribbon mike in the video. Nice recording of course. Good ribbons are very good.

 

[stoo23]

How did they make an omni ribbon?

Sorry, perhaps a bit confusing/incorrect on my behalf to describe it as an 'Omni',.. it is in Fact 'Bi-Directional' / 'Figure-8'
See here:
AEA R44 Product page
Vintage King AEA R44

As also mentioned previously there is the Single point Stereo AEA R88 Ribbon unit, ..... drool,... lol
AEA R88 Stereo Ribbon Mic
Allowing both Blumlein and MS configurations
They also make and supply some Excellent Microphone Pre-amps

Nice recording of course. Good ribbons are very good

Mmmm YES !! They sure are !! ... You should listen to a few of the other recordings The George Cole Trio ones are nice, as are the Dave Grisman Quintet recordings, as well as many of the others.
They all have such great presence, dynamics and clarity
How to record a band with One microphone

 

[rationaltime]

This "one mic" recording appears to be some kind of illusion.
There is one mic, but the pick up on the guitar and the electronics
on the pedal steel don't count. On the next video the electronic
piano, electric guitar and electric bass don't count. There is
"no editing", but effects don't count.

Really. I think we should just be able to enjoy the music without
needing claims of sonic purity.

 

[stoo23]

It is NO Illusion !! ... There is some subtle Reverb added at times, but all the instruments that are 'plugged-in' are then played through amplifiers, 'in the room' and their position to the mic adjusted along with level to get the 'balance' you hear.
Perhaps a few rehearsal / run throughs but the resulting 'track' is ONE 'take'.

It is 'One Mic' recording,... NOT Naked Only Accoustic Un-Plugged recordings !!!
I'm seriously not sure I understand your problem or dislike of it.

Did you actually read about the 'Process' or simply just watch some videos??
OneMic Series tutorial / How to record a band with one microphone.

OneMic - the minimalist recording series by John Cuniberti demonstrates that an entire band can be recorded with only one stereo microphone in one take. Each recording session is shot in 4k video on a Sony a7RII by filmmaker Nathaniel Kohfield. What makes this series so different from other live performance videos is that the artist is in complete control of his/her presentation. This means that the sound, balance, dynamics and stereo image is decided upon at the moment of creation, not in post production. The artist (band) is responsible for the final product. There is no editing of the audio or video. It’s as honest as it can be including imperfections. This organic presentation isn’t limited to “acoustic” music as seen with live classical and folk music. In this series veteran recording engineer John Cuniberti records bands with electric guitars and drums that would normally require a multi-mic, multi-track approach. This is not the first time this has been done but this technique was quickly forsaken soon after the multi-track tape recorder was invented and with it a loss of a level of musical intimacy. The OneMic series demonstrates the positive aspects of the minimalistic recording process of the 1930s but will be captured on modern stereo recording equipment.

John Cuniberti is a highly respected engineer and is selling No Snake Oil here !! but they are (in effect) promotional videos of the recording process.

I've spent half my life recording Music and I'd sure be damned happy with these efforts.
If I was rich and still young and well enough, I'd be very keen to Set about doing similar !!!

 

[Blumlein 88]

Sorry, perhaps a bit confusing/incorrect on my behalf to describe is as an 'Omni',.. it is in Fact 'Bi-Directional' / 'Figure-8'
See here:
AEA R44 Product page
Vintage King AEA R44

As also mentioned previously there is the Single point Stereo AEA R88 Ribbon unit, ..... drool,... lol
AEA R88 Stereo Ribbon Mic
Allowing both Blumlein and MS configurations
They also make and supply some Excellent Microphone Pre-amps

Mmmm YES !! They sure are !! ... You should listen to a few of the other recordings The George Cole Trio ones are nice, as are the Dave Grisman Quintet recordings, as well as many of the others.
They all have such great presence, dynamics and clarity
How to record a band with One microphone

I've recorded this way several times. I really like it even with my cheap Avantone Ribbons or some KSM44's in bi-directional.

Issues:
If you feature different people getting the players to move in and out this can be problematic. It is better to figure out where they go and just stay put like in the video.

If you get people too close to the edge of the lobes, and they move not so far, they can jump from one side to the other in the stereo field. Had a 12 string guitar player who when things got going just couldn't stay put. So made sure he was in the middle.

You need a good sounding space. This kind of recording somewhat accentuates room sound. You always need a good sounding space, but even more so verses some other techniques.

You might have heard of Tony Faulkner using spaced figure 8's firing straight ahead. Maybe 8-10 inches apart. You also get a stereo image front and back with those. If want to get really complicated Mr. Faulkner later used 4 microphones. These spaced figure 8's and spaced further apart in line with them a pair of omnis. All seems kind of wrong thinking about it, but in some spaces it works really nice. Mr. Faulkner knows what he is on about.

https://sengpielaudio.com/TonyFaulknerPhasedArray01Engl.pdf

 

[audiofooled]

This is obviously recorded with many microphones but to me very unique because it really makes me believe that my room has no ceiling, or better yet, there's some "cloud" above me, absorbing all the vertical reflections. Upon viewing some pictures online of the actual space, I can understand why. To me, this begs the question of necessity of artificially added reverb and where would studio recordings be without it.

Have a listen to other recordings of this session, they are all having the same effect. I can't fault it, but I rarely bump into recordings of this kind.

 

[Anton S]

This is obviously recorded with many microphones but to me very unique because it really makes me believe that my room has no ceiling, or better yet, there's some "cloud" above me, absorbing all the vertical reflections. Upon viewing some pictures online of the actual space, I can understand why. To me, this begs the question of necessity of artificially added reverb and where would studio recordings be without it.

Have a listen to other recordings of this session, they are all having the same effect. I can't fault it, but I rarely bump into recordings of this kind.

Interesting. ... Same venue, same band, same session sounded different to me when played directly from YouTube. Until I compared short slices of the same phrases. Switching back and forth like that, they sound the same.

 

[bluefuzz]

I'm a bit of a fan of Elle Cordova & Toni Lindgren's 'Sunday Morning' series of covers and originals recorded mostly on a Zoom H6 with the occasional outboard mic. When heard on a good rig they sound surprisingly good. Good microphone placement goes a long way in creating a believable illusion.

 

[Blumlein 88]

This is interesting how you have to move things around to record with one stereo mic also from the OneMic series. Looks like when I've done this a few times. Some people are surprised it can work pretty well in smaller rooms. I have found using figure 8 pattern condenser is a bit harder in such small rooms because they are more sensitive. So the less sensitive ribbons work better. Plus ribbons are often narrow giving them more even patterns off axis than figure 8 LDCs.

 

[007Shortz]

The videos in the previous two posts show very well the difference between indoor and outdoor recordings. I have also made recordings like this and was always amazed at how clearly the room can be heard in indoor recordings. While I was in the room, my brain had somehow calculated out the room acoustics. When your brain plays tricks like that, how do you want to record it on tape?

Floyd Toole said something like, "It's amazing how much we can hear through rooms." For those who haven't seen his talk yet (the room acoustics paradox starting at 40:30):

 

[bluefuzz]

I have also made recordings like this and was always amazed at how clearly the room can be heard in indoor recordings.

Even in a tiny space the room doesn't necessarily colour the sound in a bad way if there is enough soft furnishings ... and humans. ;-)

 

[AnalogSteph]

Unless I'm mistaken, early Telarc recordings used the spaced omni array similar to Mercury Living Presence recordings of the stereo era. They also used an early version of one-bit recording, later developed into DSD.

This one is a true oldie:

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/17089059-Carl-Orff-Robert-Shaw-Atlanta-Symphony-Orchestra-ChorusAtlanta-Boy-Choir-Judith-Blegen-Hakan-Hagegar

I'm a bit of a fan of Elle Cordova & Toni Lindgren's 'Sunday Morning' series of covers and originals recorded mostly on a Zoom H6 with the occasional outboard mic. When heard on a good rig they sound surprisingly good. Good microphone placement goes a long way in creating a believable illusion.

The first one sounds suuuper wide to me, about like you would expect from where the H6 is placed. The guitar on the left is basically in the speaker. I have a nearfield setup with greater-than-average opening angle, so this sort of stuff is super obvious to me. Recording outdoors is a good trick for avoiding room reverb though.

No complaints about #2, the extra mic seems to have been put to good use.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Even in a tiny space the room doesn't necessarily colour the sound in a bad way if there is enough soft furnishings ... and humans. ;-)

Twice when I've done something like that small I did have a space that was pretty tall. I used an M/S arrangement mounted up near the ceiling. Not my original idea, I'd read about it other places. You can tune directionality of the width picked up after the fact plus it gave a little distance to even out everyone playing. One of those times I put spaced omni's up there too as a back up. Though I haven't done it a pair of omnis with a Jecklin disk overhead can work in that situation I think.

 

[Robin L]

This one is a true oldie:

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/17089059-Carl-Orff-Robert-Shaw-Atlanta-Symphony-Orchestra-ChorusAtlanta-Boy-Choir-Judith-Blegen-Hakan-Hagegar

Looks like I made a mistake on that one. Soundstream wasn't 44.1 khz/16 bit but 50khz/16 bit. It could be edited in the digital domain and sample rate converted to Redbook standard. There was a clarity to those early Telarcs audible on the LP transfers that were available prior to the appearance of CDs. Of course, the LPs were premium in both production quality and price, going for the same price as direct to disc LPs of the same era.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Looks like I made a mistake on that one. Soundstream wasn't 44.1 khz/16 bit but 50khz/16 bit. It could be edited in the digital domain and sample rate converted to Redbook standard. There was a clarity to those early Telarcs audible on the LP transfers that were available prior to the appearance of CDs. Of course, the LPs were premium in both production quality and price, going for the same price as direct to disc LPs of the same era.

Yes, Telarc used those Soundstreams for a few years. And the LP physical quality was way above the norm. Seem to recall they did some recordings with a 36 or 37 khz sample rate at first. I don't think any of those were released. Soundstream then offered them a 50 khz version.

 

[Robin L]

Yes, Telarc used those Soundstreams for a few years. And the LP physical quality was way above the norm. Seem to recall they did some recordings with a 36 or 37 khz sample rate at first. I don't think any of those were released. Soundstream then offered them a 50 khz version.

The Telarcs came out when a lot of Japanese pressings were available. I bought as many as I could. The quality of the vinyl was the world standard; however the mastering usually had the treble tipped up. I recall in particular the Beatles on Japanese vinyl, and the series of Verve reissues of Jazz classics. The Verve reissues had the least treble boost of the lot, as I recall.