Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[sweetchaos]

Thank you for the answer! I don't use an equalizer when listening to music. Usually I listen to vocal jazz, instrumental music. Now I have a Fyne Audio F300, this acoustics with a narrow direction, if I move around the room (18 square meters) the sound changes. If I understood you correctly, the sound of Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 is natural and does not require a filter in comparison with Dali Oberon 3. Sorry, I speak Russian and write to you with the help of a google translator.

Yes.
I found measurements for the bigger brother to your speaker Fyne Audio F301 (which has a larger woofer than F300, so it will have better bass extension and lower distortion). Multiple resonances are visible on the CSD graph #2. This speaker needs EQ to help it's performance.

Speaking of ELAC DBR62:
It has 80deg horizontal directivity, which means it has a wide listening spot and will sound great as you move around the room.
Take a look at this spreadsheet, click on "H Directivity PLOT" to understand how frequency will change as you move off-axis.
The Elac DBR62 would be a worthwhile upgrade from your current speakers.

 

[daftcombo]

In the next days, if @renaudrenaud agrees to let me try it, we will power the DBR-62 with a 3e-audio SY-DAP2002 to see if that cute & cheap amp is able to drive them to LOUD levels.

 

[T.T.]

hi all, new member here. I have been following this thread for some time and I ended up buying these speakers few weeks ago (Could not resist the black friday deal). I was looking for detailed, neutral sound with smooth treble and I must say they delivered.

I was intentionally ignoring comments on various sites about lacking "drama" and "drive" etc , as I assumed they were missing upper midrange/treble emphasis, which I hate. Now I must admit there is something to it. It works great for everything but rock/metal. Guitar riffs are somewhat suppressed and lacking depth. I also consider the soundstage a bit flat and distant. There is a lot to like, but it will take some getting used to.

I use Nuprime IDA-8, so I believe the amp is not holding the speakers down. I listen mostly at low to medium volume, nearfield.

I was wondering whether it is an unavoidable trade off - detail/transparency vs. dynamics, or it is all just a design choice?

 

[richard12511]

hi all, new member here. I have been following this thread for some time and I ended up buying these speakers few weeks ago (Could not resist the black friday deal). I was looking for detailed, neutral sound with smooth treble and I must say they delivered.

I was intentionally ignoring comments on various sites about lacking "drama" and "drive" etc , as I assumed they were missing upper midrange/treble emphasis, which I hate. Now I must admit there is something to it. It works great for everything but rock/metal. Guitar riffs are somewhat suppressed and lacking depth. I also consider the soundstage a bit flat and distant. There is a lot to like, but it will take some getting used to.

I use Nuprime IDA-8, so I believe the amp is not holding the speakers down. I listen mostly at low to medium volume, nearfield.

I was wondering whether it is an unavoidable trade off - detail/transparency vs. dynamics, or it is all just a design choice?

There are definitely trade offs with different design choices. I generally haven’t found those attributes you mentioned to be contradictory(ie you need to trade one for the other). Those adjectives might mean different things to you than they do to me, though. For example, detail and transparency mean different things to me. Can you describe what those adjectives mean to you in more detail?

 

[T.T.]

There are definitely trade offs with different design choices. I generally haven’t found those attributes you mentioned to be contradictory(ie you need to trade one for the other). Those adjectives might mean different things to you than they do to me, though. For example, detail and transparency mean different things to me. Can you describe what those adjectives mean to you in more detail?

@richard12511 thank you for reply. By transparency/detail I meant precision, free of any blur, by dynamics I meant range, loudness amplitude. I would say that this speaker lacks in dynamics, my impression is that the loudness of all sounds is leveled. e.g. not a lot difference between scream and whisper, I would say that this impacts also the soundstage, nothing moves forward or backward. I do not have any scientific knowledge, so my deduction may be completely false

 

[napilopez]

I'm fine with that.

Dynamic EQ gives me just the right amount of salt and pepper when things are quiet (background music). Without it the DBR/DFR are dull - but most neutral speakers are, including most of the good speakers tested here. That's because their frequency response is designed for a target average listening level. If you diverge from that, YMMV. This need for a response that adjusts based on volume applies to all speakers; I just want to point out that V-shaped speakers have it built in. The downside to such a design is that they get tiring when you turn them up.

I'd just like to comment and clarify that "v-haped" isn't really the proper way to do loudness EQ, even though that's unfortunately how a lot of systems do it. Toole goes into it in his book but except at very low volumes really it's only the bass that needs to change at different SPLs.

The way Buchardt does it with the A500, based on ISO 226:2003, is the right way. In these in-room measurements at different SPLs, you can see that except for the lowest SPL, the high frequencies do not really change. It's only the bass that makes massive changes.

That said, I don't necessarily mind a little bit of elevated treble on-axis (like 1-2 db) as it gives me some breathing room for tweaking the sound via toe-in and such, especially as I typically prefer my speakers with little toe in. And of course, it can be preferable to those with hearing loss or in overly-damped rooms.

Privet comrade...
Dali Oberon 3 was measured by i-fidelity.net
It looks a bit bright, but if you're listening off-axis, at about 30deg, it should be more neutral.
Elac DBR62 is proven to sound good without EQ needed, while Dali Oberon 3 would likely need EQ if you're listening on-axis.

If I recall correctly, all Dali speakers are actually designed to be listened to with little to no toe-in, so the elevated on-axis is intentional. I'm not sure it should be that elevated, as that might still yield a bright sound in the in-room response with such wide directivity speakers, but it's no accident that 20-30ish degrees off-axis measures best.

 

[Chromatischism]

I find both bass and treble get dull at low volumes. Bass is the biggest offender, though, I think most can agree.

 

[thewas]

If I recall correctly, all Dali speakers are actually designed to be listened to with little to no toe-in, so the elevated on-axis is intentional. I'm not sure it should be that elevated, as that might still yield a bright sound in the in-room response with such wide directivity speakers, but it's no accident that 20-30ish degrees off-axis measures best.

That is correct, see https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...view-studio-monitor.18122/page-18#post-593123

 

[weasels]

I replaced a set of 15 year old B&W floorstanders with these. The B&W speakers sounded more immediately exciting and seemed to have greater resolution, but on extended listening I think that both of those characteristics were artificial and not representative of the actual recording.

I primarily listen to indie/alt rock and hip hop but will listen to just about anything.

Two examples of albums that i enjoy much more on the ELACs are Radiohead's Hail to the Thief (very much guitar driven) and Beastie Boys Check Your Head (very much bass driven).

 

[richard12511]

I'd just like to comment and clarify that "v-haped" isn't really the proper way to do loudness EQ, even though that's unfortunately how a lot of systems do it. Toole goes into it in his book but except at very low volumes really it's only the bass that needs to change at different SPLs.

The way Buchardt does it with the A500, based on ISO 226:2003, is the right way. In these in-room measurements at different SPLs, you can see that except for the lowest SPL, the high frequencies do not really change. It's only the bass that makes massive changes.

View attachment 98156

That said, I don't necessarily mind a little bit of elevated treble on-axis (like 1-2 db) as it gives me some breathing room for tweaking the sound via toe-in and such, especially as I typically prefer my speakers with little toe in. And of course, it can be preferable to those with hearing loss or in overly-damped rooms.



If I recall correctly, all Dali speakers are actually designed to be listened to with little to no toe-in, so the elevated on-axis is intentional. I'm not sure it should be that elevated, as that might still yield a bright sound in the in-room response with such wide directivity speakers, but it's no accident that 20-30ish degrees off-axis measures best.

I wish there was a way to configure Audyssey to behave this way. I like the extra bass it adds for background listening, but I hate that it makes everything sound too bright(to my ears).

 

[Chromatischism]

Agree that it needs to be more adjustable.

 

[T.T.]

hi all, new member here. I have been following this thread for some time and I ended up buying these speakers few weeks ago (Could not resist the black friday deal). I was looking for detailed, neutral sound with smooth treble and I must say they delivered.

I was intentionally ignoring comments on various sites about lacking "drama" and "drive" etc , as I assumed they were missing upper midrange/treble emphasis, which I hate. Now I must admit there is something to it. It works great for everything but rock/metal. Guitar riffs are somewhat suppressed and lacking depth. I also consider the soundstage a bit flat and distant. There is a lot to like, but it will take some getting used to.

I use Nuprime IDA-8, so I believe the amp is not holding the speakers down. I listen mostly at low to medium volume, nearfield.

I was wondering whether it is an unavoidable trade off - detail/transparency vs. dynamics, or it is all just a design choice?

UPDATE: I found that my reservations were mainly caused by my room. I covered the floor and the window in front of the desk (which is my listening position). Guitar riffs pop again, soundstage is deeper, center image stronger and transitions smoother. I expected that untreated room would accentuate higher frequencies, but that it would almost cancel an instrument and mess up the soundstange, that is a surprise. Also it works best when speakers are fully directed at my head (or very slightly behind).

And now the ceiling...

 

[detlev24]

[...] I expected that untreated room would accentuate higher frequencies, but that it would almost cancel an instrument and mess up the soundstange, that is a surprise. [...]

Welcome to the community!

Actually, it's not a surprise - it is exactly what is expected to happen. You can find an explanation here (make sure to follow the links in the article). Btw., the same is mentioned in every Revel loudspeakers' manual - though, a lot less detailed.

Sound quality is certainly not the compromise with the DBR62, as they perform better than many much more expensive bookshelf contenders. A simpler finish + "made in China", is what makes the DBR62 relatively inexpensive. Yet, ELAC gives a 5 years warranty period within the EU [3 years in North America] on all their passive loudspeakers. Well done!

 

[ksulliva01]

Been really enjoying these speakers, but there's one slight issue I've been noticing with imaging in my room - the "sweet" spot in which centered tracks appear to be dead center only works when I'm sitting exactly dead center. Now I understand that not all vocals or dialogue is panned to dead center in a mix, but I've noticed it consistently across a large variety of tracks and movies/tv shows. If I shift about a foot one way or the other, the closer speaker as a source of sound becomes pretty apparent. So If I'm sharing the couch with someone, and I sit on the left side of the couch, centered vocals/TV dialogue seems about a foot left of center etc. If I sit alllll the way on the left edge of the couch, the left speaker clearly overpowers the right one. With the Elac 6.2's (exact same room, exact same speaker position, same amp etc.) my entire couch was fair game for getting a nice locked in center image. Could the new waveguide be causing more directionality? Anyone else find these a little more sensitive in this regard? I know earlier in this thread someone experimented with removing the tweeter grill - I may try this and see if it has any noticeable effect. My 6.2's had the tweeter grills removed.

 

[Chromatischism]

There is a bit of narrowing up top but what you describe when sitting at the end of the couch is normal for non-omni speakers.

If that's a situation you often find yourself in, increase the toe angle so the speakers cross in front of the middle seat. The speaker you are nearest will be attenuated and the image will shift back toward the center.

 

[celroid]

^ I am using and recommend: https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...reo-amplifier-ncore-2x250w-4-ohm-p-14278.html

Pair it with a good DAC/Preamp and it doesn't get audibly better.

I bought the DBR-62 and they arrived just today. I was looking into buying this amp, and I know they once had huge discount down to 390 euros, sad I missed that.

Been really enjoying these speakers, but there's one slight issue I've been noticing with imaging in my room - the "sweet" spot in which centered tracks appear to be dead center only works when I'm sitting exactly dead center. Now I understand that not all vocals or dialogue is panned to dead center in a mix, but I've noticed it consistently across a large variety of tracks and movies/tv shows. If I shift about a foot one way or the other, the closer speaker as a source of sound becomes pretty apparent. So If I'm sharing the couch with someone, and I sit on the left side of the couch, centered vocals/TV dialogue seems about a foot left of center etc. If I sit alllll the way on the left edge of the couch, the left speaker clearly overpowers the right one. With the Elac 6.2's (exact same room, exact same speaker position, same amp etc.) my entire couch was fair game for getting a nice locked in center image. Could the new waveguide be causing more directionality? Anyone else find these a little more sensitive in this regard? I know earlier in this thread someone experimented with removing the tweeter grill - I may try this and see if it has any noticeable effect. My 6.2's had the tweeter grills removed.

Did you find a solution for this?

 

[Chromatischism]

I bought the DBR-62 and they arrived just today. I was looking into buying this amp, and I know they once had huge discount down to 390 euros, sad I missed that.

It still shows that price for me.

 

[celroid]

It still shows that price for me.

 

[Chromatischism]

If you are in the EU, there is VAT added.

 

[ksulliva01]

I bought the DBR-62 and they arrived just today. I was looking into buying this amp, and I know they once had huge discount down to 390 euros, sad I missed that.



Did you find a solution for this?

I haven't messed with it yet, and just to be clear it's not really any kind of major problem, and as @Chromatischism mentioned this is an inherent quality to any traditional (non-omni directional) stereo setup. It's just a minor OCD thing that I hope to improve upon, as the directionality seems to behave a bit differently and more sensitively than my 6.2s.