Adam T5V Review (Studio Monitor)

[DDF]

So you mean they are the Dalis of monitors

Maybe Dali knows what they're doing too.

Here's another example but done the opposite way, an old design trick I use sometimes to help smooth out the PIR while keeping on axis flat. This is a design I made ~ 30yrs ago (original was 8543/Vifa tweeter, now is 8545/Usher tweeter) with a 15 degree slanted front baffle (bit hard to tell in pic, but similar to Kairos):

Using a tweeter a bit hot up top on its axis and tuning the crossover to be a couple dB hot through xover at +15 degree vertical (90 degrees to the baffle) gives a nice response on the listening axis, and is still very nice standing up

Big benefits in directivity matching similar to what we're talking about but beyond:
- a better match between the listening axis and the power in room through xover
- delivers extra very high frequencies into the room while using a larger dome. This achieves higher power handling than a small dome (and ability to cross lower for further improved directivity match) while delivering some of the benefit of a smaller dome's greater very high frequency energy into the room
taking it a step further:
- steering the crossover null towards the floor allows that standing position to be pretty flat. Most designs amir measures seem to point the lobe forward which causes a big dip in the mids when listened to standing up
- the baffle tilt also provides more time alignment allowing some lower order xovers which can also be used to further smooth out the directivity mismatch

Linkwitz took the concept to its extreme with his lx mini by pointing the woofer directly up but had to stick with a small woofer to pull it off.

A few older commercial designs tilted a larger woofer up 45 degrees to try and maximize this balance between on axis and PIR. But this results in too much reflection and diffraction off the baffle with short time delays that hurts the perceived direct response, so I found it better to use baffle tilt and toe in the speaker to achieve much the same thing without the reflection drawbacks

 

[YSC]

Actually looking at this graph which is measured in Amirm's room (or garage?) it seems that the FR is nicely flat on axis in an actual room with some bass boost and the rising tendency of the highs not prominent as the Anechoic measurements, maybe there's some truth in the Adam tuning?

 

[amirm]

it seems that the FR is nicely flat on axis in an actual room with some bass boost and the rising tendency of the highs not prominent as the Anechoic measurements, maybe there's some truth in the Adam tuning?

The scale is 80 dB there so it is compressing the variations some.

 

[thewas]

Big benefits in directivity matching similar to what we're talking about but beyond:
- a better match between the listening axis and the power in room through xover
- delivers extra very high frequencies into the room while using a larger dome. This achieves higher power handling than a small dome (and ability to cross lower for further improved directivity match) while delivering some of the benefit of a smaller dome's greater very high frequency energy into the room

I agree these were quite practical tricks at times were waveguides were not in usage (had also used in some of my own DIYs) and also for recreational listening (as like you wrote "when standing up") but in my experience they don't sound as neutral and thus shouldn't be used in a studio monitor in 2020.

 

[muad]

Set them up in an equilateral triangle, point them straight ahead with no toe in and they're listened to at 30 degrees off axis. Pretty flat up top:
View attachment 97946
Set up this way, the off axis bouncing off side walls will probably be close to this as well (typical room), just what you want if you have a decent set up.

If you want a bit more ability to look into the mix, toe them in.

You'd almost think Adam knows what they're doing?

It will help a bit, since we don't listen in an anechoic chamber the total sound power is still going to be too bright. These speakers need eq. And yes, adam deliberately tuned them this way, and it's a real shame they didn't add a switch on the back to fix it.

 

[DDF]

I agree these were quite practical tricks at times were waveguides were not in usage (had also used in some of my own DIYs) and also for recreational listening (as like you wrote "when standing up") but in my experience they don't sound as neutral and thus shouldn't be used in a studio monitor in 2020.

Why so much negativity? They're all good practices and they work with a waveguide. Anyway, I'm out

 

[YSC]

It will help a bit, since we don't listen in an anechoic chamber the total sound power is still going to be too bright. These speakers need eq. And yes, adam deliberately tuned them this way, and it's a real shame they didn't add a switch on the back to fix it.

listening off axis might not be too bright, as mentioned by amirm by his listening exp. for me the shape and size of these Adams would make them less liketly to be toed in and likely the back will be fairly close to back wall boosting bass energy, by the magnitude of the upward tilting (3db max) I feel it should not sound too bright, of coz at this level I do think need to really test them on the listening environment, and seems the -2db HF switch partly fixed that already?

 

[BYRTT]

It will help a bit, since we don't listen in an anechoic chamber the total sound power is still going to be too bright. These speakers need eq. And yes, adam deliberately tuned them this way, and it's a real shame they didn't add a switch on the back to fix it.

listening off axis might not be too bright, as mentioned by amirm by his listening exp. for me the shape and size of these Adams would make them less liketly to be toed in and likely the back will be fairly close to back wall boosting bass energy, by the magnitude of the upward tilting (3db max) I feel it should not sound too bright, of coz at this level I do think need to really test them on the listening environment, and seems the -2db HF switch partly fixed that already?

Heavy zoomed in notice that red target curve that if limegreen listening window curve is EQed follow that red target then power response/sound power goes ideal smooth, so how big is this problem really if use case is farfield for a 200$ speaker that includes amplification, could be a house curve but also a distance for this low cost serie verse their other series, worst is probably if use case is close nearfield studio work strait on axis because spinorama data curves we see are a pattern at 2 meter so at shorter distance on axis will dominate more relative the other curves, out of box in general objective performance looks not bad at these costs..

 

[YSC]

Heavy zoomed in notice that red target curve that if limegreen listening window curve is EQed follow that red target then power response/sound power goes ideal smooth, so how big is this problem really if use case is farfield for a 200$ speaker that includes amplification, could be a house curve but also a distance for this low cost serie verse their other series, worst is probably if use case is close nearfield studio work strait on axis because spinorama data curves we see are a pattern at 2 meter so at shorter distance on axis will dominate more relative the other curves, out of box in general objective performance looks not bad at these costs..

View attachment 98208

View attachment 98212

Ah right, that zoom in looks quite a bit worse, somehow a second thought that extra power from 5-10khz, would that be something bright like the headphone world HD800 which was used as reference for years? if that is from my experience that in real world listening would translate into something on the bright side which brings out extra detail but not to the point of annoyance, maybe the -2db tilt switch makes it even less so?

 

[BYRTT]

Ah right, that zoom in looks quite a bit worse, somehow a second thought that extra power from 5-10khz, would that be something bright like the headphone world HD800 which was used as reference for years? if that is from my experience that in real world listening would translate into something on the bright side which brings out extra detail but not to the point of annoyance, maybe the -2db tilt switch makes it even less so?

Actual did the zoom show to enlight worst case is not more than 2,6-2,8dB area for farfield listening window correction it probably irritate the eye because had that AMT transducer not had a resonance dip there as member @ctrl demonstated few pages back then the rise had looked more gentle and its nothing compared to what many headphones present out of box but will admit or say i havent heard HD800 but can see in my Sonarworks reference 4 software that they get +7dB hot @6,5kHz-12kHz and that is for their avarage profile which often is relaxed compared to their per serial number dedicated profile. If one have EQ then dial it down or use -2dB tilt that well didnt look very effective in Amir's test, but i tried myself add filter used in previous post set to reverse mirror using my own farfield diy speaker and while i can notice the little change its was not anoying for my year 1964 ears ..

 

[ROOSKIE]

Actual did the zoom show to enlight worst case is not more than 2,6-2,8dB area for farfield listening window correction it probably irritate the eye because had that AMT transducer not had a resonance dip there as member @ctrl demonstated few pages back then the rise had looked more gentle and its nothing compared to what many headphones present out of box but will admit or say i havent heard HD800 but can see in my Sonarworks reference 4 software that they get +7dB hot @6,5kHz-12kHz and that is for their avarage profile which often is relaxed compared to their per serial number dedicated profile. If one have EQ then dial it down or use -2dB tilt that well didnt look very effective in Amir's test, but i tried myself add filter used in previous post set to reverse mirror using my own farfield diy speaker and while i can notice the little change its was not anoying for my year 1964 ears ..

View attachment 98234

Do not mistake a headphones frequency responce and speakers for being equal.
They need to be considered as separate objects.
When the driver is firing in cup placed over your ear you need a completely different design to sound neutral vs a speaker firing into a room.
Absolutely not even close to same.
Especially above 3 or 4 k.

 

[ROOSKIE]

Ah right, that zoom in looks quite a bit worse, somehow a second thought that extra power from 5-10khz, would that be something bright like the headphone world HD800 which was used as reference for years? if that is from my experience that in real world listening would translate into something on the bright side which brings out extra detail but not to the point of annoyance, maybe the -2db tilt switch makes it even less so?

I just changed the target curve on a set of speakers as worked them into my room.
I changed it from dropping at 0.9db per octave (200hrz-20k)to 0.7db per octave.
This means the 0.7db set-up is slightly hotter on top than the 0.9.
Sounds like subtle change but in fact they do not sound like the same speakers.
Yes, you would have to know the speakers a little bit and be doing some earnest listening but the change is not really that subtle.
I would be able to easily tell them apart. Seemed like my GF had no problem either.
A couple db can really change things.

 

[BYRTT]

Do not mistake a headphones frequency responce and speakers for being equal.
They need to be considered as separate objects.
When the driver is firing in cup placed over your ear you need a completely different design to sound neutral vs a speaker firing into a room.
Absolutely not even close to same.
Especially above 3 or 4 k.

Yes and thanks the notice but their software present it for users as normal flat speaker curves so its easy understandable, here you have that HD800 avarage profile correction that looks hot especial compared to my own HD650..

 

[hardisj]

He can send it to Erin if he can tolerate the aggravation.

I don't know what this thread is about but I have a feeling you threw me under the bus here. LOL

*crawls back in to cave*

 

[ROOSKIE]

I don't know what this thread is about but I have a feeling you threw me under the bus here. LOL

*crawls back in to cave*

I think Amir meant if YOU can tolerate the aggravation.(presumably from the March Audio guy)
(There was a great debate in this thread earlier. It got heated.)
He didn't throw you under.

 

[hardisj]

I think Amir meant if YOU can tolerate the aggravation.(presumably from the March Audio guy)
(There was a great debate in this thread earlier. It got heated.)
He didn't throw you under.

I know.

 

[YSC]

Do not mistake a headphones frequency responce and speakers for being equal.
They need to be considered as separate objects.
When the driver is firing in cup placed over your ear you need a completely different design to sound neutral vs a speaker firing into a room.
Absolutely not even close to same.
Especially above 3 or 4 k.

Sorry I may be expressing wrong, I certain know that headphones sound massively different than speaking in a room in terms of raw FR and thus need compensation, my previous guess was based on that the HD800 have a 6khz elevation compared to other headphones, so guessing the elevated treble of these T5Vs might not be that annoying as the graph to the eye and that's what I meant. And after all as much as I am attracted by the folded U-ART tweeter of the Adams I have chosen to pay 3 times more for the Genelecs for the sake of ultimate neutrality out of the box and not taking up all my desk space in my tiny room, just seems that I likely would not have concerns recommending the T5Vs to my friends who are first into audio and have the real estate to put the Adams up properly

 

[dcolak]

Damn you Amir. I read the whole thread, with fighting and all and I just got out and purchased me some Adams...

My main monitors are JBL LSR serie... Adams are not bad

Thx. You made me spend money, again... I lost count how many times I had to purchase what you reviewed

 

[YSC]

Damn you Amir. I read the whole thread, with fighting and all and I just got out and purchased me some Adams...

My main monitors are JBL LSR serie... Adams are not bad

Thx. You made me spend money, again... I lost count how many times I had to purchase what you reviewed

So which you prefer? The lsr or Adam? They seems like direct competitor

 

[dcolak]

So which you prefer? The lsr or Adam? They seems like direct competitor

This is the second day I have Adams.

With all the "special Adam tweeter etc." I still think JBL´s extract more information from the recording.

I do not regret the purchase though... Adams are fine.