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Denon AVR-X6700H Home Theater AVR Review
- Thread starter amirm
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If you don't need 8K (and you will not need it for a long time, besides hooking up whatever 8k device you have directly to the tv) the 3600 is still the way to go. Still available at less than 1.000 Euro here, just got another one for my second house.
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Good Choice.
American Lung Cancer Association: https://www.lung.org/#:~:text=About Us,through education, advocacy and research.
valerianf
Addicted to Fun and Learning
After the down-mixing bug found with the 4700h, now we do have a quality issue due to low grade capacitors with the 6700h.
What surprise will pop-up with the 3700h?
I do not think that I will buy my first Denon this year.
What surprise will pop-up with the 3700h?
I do not think that I will buy my first Denon this year.
So you’re saying that if you have 4 ohm speakers, you shouldn’t be switching the unit to 4 ohm to match?
Since a $130 Topping E30 DAC outperforms this AVR's DAC by a good many dB, I really wonder how little engineering and money Denon spent on the DAC inside this thing to arrive at such sad performance.
I also wonder how well the multichannel decoder performs- after all this thing is not just a stereo DAC. One would hope that for the lossless surround cinema formats that the Denon would at least as good in multichannel as it is in stereo. (But it might not be - only measurements can tell for sure.)
But not every source watched on a home theater system includes lossless sound tracks. I have to wonder just how well these AVRs handle decoding lossy formats like Dolby AC-3. Yes, it's a lossy format to begin with, but mistakes in hardware or software could make it even WORSE. Seems like there ought to be some test for quality of AC-3 decoding. But I have to say if this AVR only has an 87 dB SINAD for PCM stereo, I wonder what additional damage it may doing to the already compromised transparency of compressed formats like AC-3....
I wonder if manufacturers just don't care. "Oh well AC-3 is a compressed format anyway, who cares how well our hardware decodes what limited audio fidelity may be left in that bitstream...."
Anybody out there know of any tests for AC-3 decode quality? Or any of the other compressed multitrack formats? Seems like there ought to be ways to test them.
I also wonder how well the multichannel decoder performs- after all this thing is not just a stereo DAC. One would hope that for the lossless surround cinema formats that the Denon would at least as good in multichannel as it is in stereo. (But it might not be - only measurements can tell for sure.)
But not every source watched on a home theater system includes lossless sound tracks. I have to wonder just how well these AVRs handle decoding lossy formats like Dolby AC-3. Yes, it's a lossy format to begin with, but mistakes in hardware or software could make it even WORSE. Seems like there ought to be some test for quality of AC-3 decoding. But I have to say if this AVR only has an 87 dB SINAD for PCM stereo, I wonder what additional damage it may doing to the already compromised transparency of compressed formats like AC-3....
I wonder if manufacturers just don't care. "Oh well AC-3 is a compressed format anyway, who cares how well our hardware decodes what limited audio fidelity may be left in that bitstream...."
Anybody out there know of any tests for AC-3 decode quality? Or any of the other compressed multitrack formats? Seems like there ought to be ways to test them.
Michael YYZ
Member
Thank you, Amir, for the clear explanation. I am new to the Forum but am completely impressed by your work and contribution to the audiophile society.
I’ve got an older Denon, the AVR-4308CI, which I’ve been happy with. It’s time to replace it and I did consider the AVR-X6700H but, well before seeing your very thorough review on this unit, I decided to go bigger: separates. Currently, I am inclining towards an NAD M17 V2i + M28 combo. Hope is a good choice.
I’ve got an older Denon, the AVR-4308CI, which I’ve been happy with. It’s time to replace it and I did consider the AVR-X6700H but, well before seeing your very thorough review on this unit, I decided to go bigger: separates. Currently, I am inclining towards an NAD M17 V2i + M28 combo. Hope is a good choice.
according to the test performed by Amir M17V2, measurements of the M17V2 are not a very impressive. If you can deal with a lower level ouput (from 1.5 to 2V), the Denon 4700h, in a full preamp mode, outperforms the NAD. On the same vein, you may replace the M28 by 2 purifi-based power amps from Nord or Audiophonics and save a significant amount of money.
studiocity
Member
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I got the 8500 delivered to my dealer a week ago and they delivered to me right away. I am happy with the way It sounds, listening test only. No science. Have audyessy working great with the app to adjust the curves, but I found that the curves it determined, sounded great. So if it has any inferior parts, I can’t hear them.
Michael YYZ
Member
My options are still currently open and I thank you for the suggestions.
One thing I noticed - from Amir’s tests and from other information that I have - is that many expensive processors measure worse than cheaper and smaller desktop DACs and amps. The question here is how much of a difference is audible between devices - possibly none, likely.
One thing I noticed - from Amir’s tests and from other information that I have - is that many expensive processors measure worse than cheaper and smaller desktop DACs and amps. The question here is how much of a difference is audible between devices - possibly none, likely.
I see this and Denon’s reaction as a very negative thing. They attempted to dupe their customers by producing a product out of spec because of part availability, all because they thought no one would notice. Would you be happy if you bought a 300 hp engine but you actually got 285 hp because they used a different part? I now have to question every product from Sound United. Even if ASR gives it a great rating, unless I personally send it in to Amirm for testing, I will not know if it is truly up to spec. When I hear that weird sound in a song, is that in the recording or in my equipment.
My mantra used to be “Until ASR measures a transparent product I will not buy it.” it may end up being “Until ASR measures my own equipment as transparent I won’t keep it.”
This, in my opinion, is a very, very negative thing.
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It would be nice if you could ship the review sample back to them and test the fixed unit. With high quality before and after pictures, verification of the cap change could be made and no other parts. Then future owners could open up their boxes and confirm they have the same caps. I fear that a new unit will be put together based on the highest quality parts (parts that exceed normal spec based on qc issues, like Epson does with their 6050 projector line, which is nothing more than the best parts from 5050’s), and trusting this version as something you can actually buy will be a fallacy.
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Question is: what 32bit AKM DAC gives only 60 dB of attenuation? I couldn’t find one.. are they applying some inferior sample rate conversion? If so, looking a bit further up in the spectrum should reveal the real DAC stopband. No capacitor will fix that though..
It’s quite remarkable how forgiving some people tend to be about the capacitor thing on a $2.5k device! When Topping had the polarity reversed on the E30 ($ 130), the world almost came to an end..
It’s quite remarkable how forgiving some people tend to be about the capacitor thing on a $2.5k device! When Topping had the polarity reversed on the E30 ($ 130), the world almost came to an end..
Right now don't even think about trading in your old Denon for a new x6700h. I'm talking about my experience.
This is what I did with my precious Denon AVR 4306, and I returned the 6700 the day after I received it, one of the first units that arrived in my country. The protection jumped out with nothing plugged into the back of it at any socket in the house, without any known problems in my power grid.
The store told me that the Denon 6700 had no problem, it worked perfectly in the tests they performed and that they were going to return it to me, something I did not accept. This happened just before I learned about the faulty connectors and ASR measurements, i.e. yesterday.
Thanks to my own inspiration and to the wise advice of my colleagues in the "Marantz-Denon" thread of forum "Forodvd", who helped me in my decision and to whom I am deeply grateful for their help.
And my old Denon still works without any problem in any outlet of my house.
Although I need to upgrade to the new formats (some not so new), I will wait for independent objective tests like Amir's, before deciding to buy a high series Denon or Marrantz, or any other brand.
Tests have shown that the new 6700, at least the tested unit, does not generally outperform inferior models that cost 1,000 euros less, money which as we all know, can be put to good use if more channels and power are required.
DeepL Translation
This is true with every amp/AVR. Never use the 4 ohm setting, because it is not designed to match your speakers, it’s designed to limit power.
Great points, I had a 4308 too that is a littler newer than the 4306, I replaced with a Marantz AV7005 and a bunch power amps with no gain whatsoever but I had to give it away anyway. That thing must be over 12 years old now and as far as I know it is still in top condition. I have since switched to the AV8801, still no apparent improvement except XT32 did seem like a big jump in the bass department. Then I switched to the Denon AVR-X4400H (used as prepro only) and that's when I felt watching movies has become more exciting.
So if I think if you have been happy with the 4306, you will be very happy with the X4700H, or wait for the measurements of the 3700. If it is just as good then I would say it is a top value right now for hundreds less, while waiting for the more matured and safer bet 2021-2022 models, and that's only if by that time there is good reason to change gear again.
Did you mean they would build one with hand picked parts (same part# of course, but like you said, with better than the typ specs..) just for Amir to test? I don't think they would do that especially if they would, I would expect a much delayed delivery, and in that case I would want to buy that unit, even for $100 more.
I don't believe D+M would allow such approach.I also think what's done was a negative thing, but I don't think we have the facts in terms of how it happened so it is possible that someone made such a decision and management, or even the head of the design team may not know about it. I have worked in manufacturing for many years so I know this sort of things could happen and QA/QC/AS (whatever they are called) may not catch it even if they have a meticulous/all inclusive bench test protocol, as they don't bench test every unit.
Based on the time delay in sorting it out and got back to Amir, it seems that they had to dig in before narrowing down the root cause. So again, the end result is negative, but they did get back to Amir with a reasonable root cause after a few days of investigating, at least apparently.. I would give them the benefit of doubt, for now...
If you can't hear -85 dB THD+N you won't be alone, but I am sure many people could... My HT room's noise floor (based on 10 to 20,000 Hz) with the HVAC off is at least 25 dB so 85+25=110 dB. For me to hear any harmonics from distortions, let alone total harmonics distortions of -85 dB because it would mean I have to play something at louder than 110 dB from my mmp. I am not saying I can't hear anything if I set the volume to say -80 or -85, but I am saying any harmonics at such low levels will get heavily masked by the random noise to the point it wouldn't bother me any more than the noise would as I couldn't tell the difference.
In fact, even the THD measured with the speakers in the loop, distortions only peaked above the noise floor by 2-3 dB at the most in the 1-2 kHz range, according to my REW plots.
Regardless, if had bought one of those 6700 with the substituted cap, I would definitely request for an exchange.
