Denon AVR-X4700H 2020 AVR Review

[Baff]

And no real need for it I'm assuming?

HDMI 2.1 will be very important for gamers, this year. If you aren't a gamer, then you can probably get by just fine without it for a few more years.

For a complete feature comparison of the 4500 vs 3600:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...-s-thread-faq-posts-1-8-a-7.html#post58285290

 

[North_Sky]

HDMI 2.1 will be very important for gamers, this year. If you aren't a gamer, then you can probably get by just fine without it for a few more years.

▪ https://www.playstation.com/en-ca/ps5/

 

[tparm]

Yes, right.

Shit. This never occurred to me. Does it? It's internal and supposedly outputs to 24/192. I just sold my Node 2, don't make me buy another one......

 

[rvsixer]

1. Turn the LFE channel volume up.

That's not really going to give you much more bass per se. The LFE channel is already 10dB hot compared to the bass managed channels, and there's really not that much of it during the normal movie sans explosions etc. (and of course no extra bass in stereo as there is no LFE channel there at all).

What you really want is to crank in a nice house curve in Audyssey (on Denon's anyway, other EQ's on other AVR's). That will get you a bass boost to your liking for everything, both music and movies.

 

[A.West]

▪ https://www.playstation.com/en-ca/ps5/

I think most people will be totally satisfied with 4k at 60hz and HDR, which 2.0 can handle. Videophiles can barely see the difference between HD and 4K unless you are very close to a very large screen. 8k strikes me as pointless. Film is only 24 frames per seconds, btw.

 

[davidc]

1. Turn the LFE channel volume up.
2. Get a programmable Harmony remote.
* I'm not an App person, I'm an Apt person.

Well...

I don't have an LFE 'cause I don't have a sub. My main speakers are more than up to the challenge of bass. Also, the LFE isn't for 2ch stereo music is it?

Tried the Harmony remote. While it is cool, it seems easier for the wife to use buttons, even if it means more than one remote.

Is there any difference at all between the HDMI CEC and eARC functions and stability between the Denon 2018,2019, and 2020 models?

 

[davidc]

That's not really going to give you much more bass per se. The LFE channel is already 10dB hot compared to the bass managed channels, and there's really not that much of it during the normal movie sans explosions etc. (and of course no extra bass in stereo as there is no LFE channel there at all).

What you really want is to crank in a nice house curve in Audyssey (on Denon's anyway, other EQ's on other AVR's). That will get you a bass boost to your liking for everything, both music and movies.

Yes, that's the biggest reason I want to upgrade. On the 4311ci, the tone controls are locked out when you use Audyssey.

 

[rvsixer]

Videophiles can barely see the difference between HD and 4K unless you are very close to a very large screen. 8k strikes me as pointless.

Agree on the second part. But on the first, at immersive and specification THX/SMPTE/etc. viewing angles, the difference between HD and 4K is readily resolved and seen (even by my middle aged eyes). I sit at about a 40deg viewing angle at home, which is about the same as the middle row of seats in the theater.

Visual acuity calculations/charts:
http://carltonbale.com/home-theater/home-theater-calculator/

 

[rvsixer]

Yes, that's the biggest reason I want to upgrade. On the 4311ci, the tone controls are locked out when you use Audyssey.

That is probably true (I don't have a Denon). But is the Audyssey house curve adjustment locked out via the app (or maybe its not supported as it is on the 3600 etc.)?

 

[rvsixer]

I don't have an LFE 'cause I don't have a sub. My main speakers are more than up to the challenge of bass.

If sub is set to OFF, LFE is often routed to mains. And mains are more often than not in the perfect place for room modes, and certainly not good down to 3 dB .

 

[davidc]

That is probably true (I don't have a Denon). But is the Audyssey house curve adjustment locked out via the app (or maybe its not supported as it is on the 3600 etc.)?

The app doesn't work with the 4311ci unfortunately.

 

[davidc]

If sub is set to OFF, LFE is often routed to mains. And mains are more often than not in the perfect place for room modes, and certainly not good down to 3 dB .

The room they are in, our living room, luckily has some openings into another angled room, a hallway, and a dining area, so many room modes are broken up (also by their placement). What do you mean by "not good down to 3dB"?

 

[North_Sky]

That's not really going to give you much more bass per se. The LFE channel is already 10dB hot compared to the bass managed channels, and there's really not that much of it during the normal movie sans explosions etc. (and of course no extra bass in stereo as there is no LFE channel there at all).

What you really want is to crank in a nice house curve in Audyssey (on Denon's anyway, other EQ's on other AVR's). That will get you a bass boost to your liking for everything, both music and movies.

I wasn't specific enough; Bass Management...all the bass from all the speakers, including the two front flankers, goes to the Sub channel (including the LFE/.1) ... two or for or six or eight subwoofers in the room ... for both music (mono, stereo, multich.) and movies (DTS Master, TrueHD, Atmos, dts-X, Auro 3D, ...). Say below 80Hz or 60Hz, depending on the speakers bass capability and the x-over chosen relative.

But yeah, a nice Audyssey house curve with punchy bass @ 80Hz and 40Hz is cool.
...And a parametric EQ.

 

[North_Sky]

I think most people will be totally satisfied with 4k at 60hz and HDR, which 2.0 can handle. Videophiles can barely see the difference between HD and 4K unless you are very close to a very large screen. 8k strikes me as pointless. Film is only 24 frames per seconds, btw.

I certainly agree. I only posted the Sony PS5 as it will be released later on this year* and sporting a 2.1 HDMI output (supporting 8K). ...And that can be plugged into the Denon 4700 and an 8K big screen OLED TV...77 inches diagonal or larger. That was just an example for people going with the latest and newest, not us (4K hardcore addicts).
* December 2020, just in time for the Holidays ...
https://www.inverse.com/gaming/ps5-...cs-features-rumors-patents-sony-playstation-5

Some people are gamers big time...you gotta respect that...in 8K moving action magic...almost 3D. And without the 3D virtual glasses.

 

[rvsixer]

The room they are in, our living room, luckily has some openings into another angled room, a hallway, and a dining area, so many room modes are broken up (also by their placement). What do you mean by "not good down to 3dB"?

Room modes happen where they happen. They are not broken up by other general room features, for example I have an open loft. The right speaker response bass response is decent enough (tested to 25Hz relatively flat), but the left (located right next to a stairway) is horrendous. That's why you want any problematic bass response bass managed to well placed multisubs, regardless if the speaker can produce good bass when its in a perfect situation (i.e the manufacturer spec sheet). Measuring and then addressing is the only way to get this tamed.

Sorry I meant 3 Hz, not 3 dB .

 

[davidc]

Romm modes happen where they happen. They are not broken up by "other things", for example I have an open loft. The right speaker response bass response is decent enough (tested to 25Hz relatively flat), but the left (located right next to a stairway) is horrendous. That's why you want any problematic bass response bass managed to well placed multisubs, regardless if the speaker can produce good bass when its in a perfect situation (i.e the manufacturer spec sheet). Measuring and then addressing is the only way to get this tamed.

Sorry I meant 3 Hz, not 3 dB .

Got it. The speakers (in the right conditions of course), have a -3dB @20Hz, and with a 1watt drive producing 99 dB at 1meter, they have less than 0.5% THD from 22Hz to 500Hz, less than 0.1% THD above that. Max spl is beyond what my ears can take at 121dB. I only mention this because we had been talking about the distortion of the Denon AVR and what happens when signal levels get high.

This obviously can excite room modes.

A little confused...so, "room modes happen where they happen as you say. These modes are defined by the size and shape of the room and by speaker placement. Is this correct?

Viewing the Audyssey correction curve via the 4311ci, it appears that there is a general bell-shaped curve from about 40Hz to 200Hz that the AVR decreases in volume. The curve appears to have a couple dozen "bars" in this range. There are no sharp/narrow bandwidth inaccuracies being corrected.

However, I have NO idea if this presentation of the correction curve for Audyssey in the AVR is really accurate, or just shows a very general idea of what it's doing. Can anyone else elaborate? On another point...how come no improvements in Audyssey for at least 10 yrs now?

 

[rvsixer]

I wasn't specific enough; Bass Management...all the bass from all the speakers, including the two front flankers, goes to the Sub channel (including the LFE/.1) ... two or for or six or eight subwoofers in the room ... for both music (mono, stereo, multich.) and movies (DTS Master, TrueHD, Atmos, dts-X, Auro 3D, ...). Say below 80Hz or 60Hz, depending on the speakers bass capability and the x-over chosen relative.

But yeah, a nice Audyssey house curve with punchy bass @ 80Hz and 40Hz is cool.
...And a parametric EQ.

Okay just to make sure, graphic view of LFE + Bass Managed/Crossed Speakers = Bass Management (SUB out):
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dsp-shd-dac-dsp-and-streamer.4286/post-385127

 

[rvsixer]

However, I have NO idea if this presentation of the correction curve for Audyssey in the AVR is really accurate

Same answer. Measure.

 

[davidc]

Same answer. Measure.

With what? BTW, I neglected to mention that in this bell-shaped curve, the reduction in level peaks at about 16dB relative to reference.

 

[rvsixer]

With what? BTW, I neglected to mention that in this bell-shaped curve, the reduction in level peaks at about 16dB relative to reference.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...om-measurement-tutorial-for-dummies-part-1.4/

Careful it can be a difficult frustrating road...but WELL worth it I can attest to that.