Wolf's Measurements of SMSL M200 DAC

[Matias]

It should be noted that I am not accusing M200

In fact at the corresponding price, it's not bad

After Modius, this is now bad.

 

[VeerK]

Bet you couldn't tell them apart in ABX.

Never said I could...

 

[Tks]

It’s an okay product, but I don’t necessarily see the appeal vs something like the Topping E30. Nice for SP200 owners to have the option of a matching DAC though

Balanced and Bluetoothm and volume control knob.

@WolfX-700 There has been recent regressions with Toslink in many devices. Do you think it would be possible to measure that for Jitter/SINAD if it's not too much trouble? And perhaps maybe filters?

EDIT: By the way, I was wondering, does you AP have the bluetooth module by any chance?

 

[ReaderZ]

So the SMSL balanced DAC to buy is still M300 MKII, cheaper and better?

 

[ModDIY]

Crickets from S.M.S.L.

Be nice if a rep could chime in ????

Here is what @SMSL_Liu had posted as M200 measurements in the M400 thread:
(Message #17)

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/wolfs-measurements-of-smsl-m400-dac.13662/

Why would anyone care about lobes at -130dB buried in noise? Can you also test jitter at 12khz? Multitone isn't the cleanest but okay at this price point and feature set. Seems like a decent device overall.

@WolfX-700 do you can also test jitter at 12khz?

 

[ModDIY]

IHi, yesterday I listened to music for several hours listening to music with the DAC M200 as a source.

Despite the multitone measurement made by @WolfX-700, I really like the sound of this DAC. I wonder why I would change it. It is sufficiently detailed, very silent, a nice stage size, dynamic ... etc.

This with of course the high quality Bluetooth (APTX-HD, LDAC and UAT) ... in short it satisfies me fully.

 

[garbulky]

Why would anyone care about lobes at -130dB buried in noise? Can you also test jitter at 12khz? Multitone isn't the cleanest but okay at this price point and feature set. Seems like a decent device overall.

I don't know why spikes that are only visible due to very low noise at incredibly low distortion is considered "bad" jitter. Those look like exceptionally good results including multitone performance.

 

[ModDIY]

I don't know why spikes that are only visible due to very low noise at incredibly low distortion is considered "bad" jitter. Those look like exceptionally good results including multitone performance.

I agree with you. @wolfx-370 has taken action and made comments, but he doesn't explain these comments to me, it gives a bad impression of the DAC (jitter????????????????????????).

I confirm it again, the sound of the SMSL M200 is excellent.

The Topping D70 (AK4497) has almost double the price does not do better in the measurement of the FFT.

 

[garbulky]

I agree with you. @wolfx-370 has taken action and made comments, but he doesn't explain these comments to me, it gives a bad impression of the DAC (jitter????????????????????????).

I confirm it again, the sound of the SMSL M200 is excellent.

The Topping D70 (AK4497) has almost double the price does not do better in the measurement of the FFT.

If you were to get technical almost all modern DACs including your smartphone's dac should theoretically sound identical to the SMSL. Do they? I have no idea.

 

[ModDIY]

No it shouldn't. Many entry-level or poorly designed DACs have very apparent background noise during measurements. What is true on the other hand, below a certain background noise, the differences between the DACs decrease accordingly.

 

[ModDIY]

It is an audio forum based on scientific measurements. This is the reason why we ask if possible, a jitter measurement at 12khz. This in order to know the behavior of the dac. We can read at the beginning that the jitter must not be very good, the measure could tell us.

 

[ModDIY]

It is an audio forum based on scientific measurements. This is the reason why we ask if possible, a jitter measurement at 12khz. This in order to know the behavior of the dac. We can read at the beginning that the jitter must not be very good, the measure could tell us.

 

[lashto]

Thanks!

But would still like an explanation of those ridiculous "Sound Color" modes. Out of the three is one of them "no coloration"? You have to select one of them with no option to turn off. Also, is Bluetooth always active? Be great to turn off an unwanted transmitter.

I would also like to hear more details about who/how came up with that "sound color" idea.
@SMSL-Mandy enjoys talking about the M400 DAC and "its voice", maybe that's the source. Or maybe their DACs are specially designed for people who enjoy hearing "voices". And I'm just one of those "different" people who think that the very, very, very last thing a DAC should have is "its voice".

In any case, I guess the SMSL geniuses who came up with that stuff might be very happy to know that ASR did foresaw their amazing idea: serious-question-how-do-you-deal-with-people-thinking-a-dac-has-a-sound-signature

 

[aldarrin]

I have the M200 paired with the SP200. If you double the sampling rate (e.g. 44.1KHz => 88.2KHz), there's a small amount of noise that seems to go away. I think it's in the 3k range, but since I get really clean sound with 32 bit (for easy doubling from 16 bit) / 88.2KHz (or 96k for 48kHz source audio) I haven't noticed it.

 

[Tatteredmidnight]

I can’t say I understand from where the negative reaction to this device comes. It does seem to be a bit on the higher priced side considering what else is available, but is very feature rich. What is the competition providing better measured performance with balanced out and Bluetooth, a remote, volume control, and useable display?

The Dx3 pro has Bluetooth, volume control, a remote, and a good display. It also lacks a balanced out, and measures 10db worse on SINAD and has worse dynamic range. It is cheaper and has a serviceable headphone amp. I did not see a multi-tone in the measurements, and no test of the v2 (released because of real reliability problems).

The E30 is very close in SINAD, has lower dynamic range, but a much cleaner multi-tone. It also has a good display and remote, but lacks balanced out and Bluetooth. It wasn’t released without controversy, having inverse absolute polarity. It is also substantially less expensive at roughly half the cost!

The Schiit Modius matches the M200 in SINAD but has lower dynamic range, it also lacks a screen, remote, Bluetooth, and volume control, but comes in at $80 cheaper.

The Soncoz LA-QXD1 matches or beats it’s performance and price by $80, but lacks Bluetooth, a screen and a remote, although it does have volume control. It also lacks volume and source memory on power cycle.

There is also SMSL’s own SU-8, with remote, volume control, and balanced outs. It has lower measured performance, the ESS hump, and no Bluetooth. It has also had to have a revision due to a design flaw, is only $30 cheaper, and it’s display is a joke (this is the DAC I use in my living room, v1, and I am satisfied).

I could continue with the D50s, many others from SMSL, and a myriad of others I’m forgetting, but my point is that this seems to be well positioned in price, performance, and features. It’s incredible what is available for under $300 today in a DAC.

Jitter at -130db, and spurious tones at below -110db don’t pose audible concerns, and I doubt they even point to poor engineering. We have a glut of options now, it’s really amazing how much things have changed in just the last 2 years!

 

[ModDIY]

Hi Tatteredmidnight,

I join you all the way. This DAC with these features and especially its sound performance is a boon. I was a little dissatisfied with the multitone measurement, but then I understood better the implications of the measurements.

Now that I listen to it every day, I am completely satisfied, it is the best DAC I have owned.

Again, I will buy the same DAC without any hesitation. I tell you, this DAC is a big deal, you will not regret it.

 

[XeNoNF50]

I am very happy with the sound of the DAC and the bluetooth is great too. I use the DAC in my living room so the big display and the remote is a big plus for me.

 

[aldarrin]

I think a premium DAC is like premium vodka. There're only two types of vodka: gut rot, decent vodka, and the same decent vodka with an absurd markup. I think in a truly blind test of DACs (where the volume levels are normalized using instrumentation) you'll find the same thing. There're DACs that produce noise and mess up the sound and DACs that produce a clean analog signal and then get out of the way. It either is clean and does the job or it's shit and shouldn't be in your home, just like vodka. Want to add character to your vodka? That's what a mixed drink is for. Want to add character to your music? That's where tube amps and different headphones / IEMs enter the equation.

 

[Veri]

I think a premium DAC is like premium vodka. There're only two types of vodka: gut rot, decent vodka, and the same decent vodka with an absurd markup. I think in a truly blind test of DACs (where the volume levels are normalized using instrumentation) you'll find the same thing. There're DACs that produce noise and mess up the sound and DACs that produce a clean analog signal and then get out of the way. It either is clean and does the job or it's shit and shouldn't be in your home, just like vodka. Want to add character to your vodka? That's what a mixed drink is for. Want to add character to your music? That's where tube amps and different headphones / IEMs enter the equation.

That's a great analogy Don't really agree on tube amps though don't really hear any "character" besides high output impedance and frankly, tube noise/microphonics.

 

[Gizmo1k]

thanks for the great post, i'm in the market for a balanced dac and was curious about what you think about the SMSL M300 MkII, I just got a Drop THX 789 and wanted to get a new dac to go with it.

I can’t say I understand from where the negative reaction to this device comes. It does seem to be a bit on the higher priced side considering what else is available, but is very feature rich. What is the competition providing better measured performance with balanced out and Bluetooth, a remote, volume control, and useable display?

The Dx3 pro has Bluetooth, volume control, a remote, and a good display. It also lacks a balanced out, and measures 10db worse on SINAD and has worse dynamic range. It is cheaper and has a serviceable headphone amp. I did not see a multi-tone in the measurements, and no test of the v2 (released because of real reliability problems).

The E30 is very close in SINAD, has lower dynamic range, but a much cleaner multi-tone. It also has a good display and remote, but lacks balanced out and Bluetooth. It wasn’t released without controversy, having inverse absolute polarity. It is also substantially less expensive at roughly half the cost!

The Schiit Modius matches the M200 in SINAD but has lower dynamic range, it also lacks a screen, remote, Bluetooth, and volume control, but comes in at $80 cheaper.

The Soncoz LA-QXD1 matches or beats it’s performance and price by $80, but lacks Bluetooth, a screen and a remote, although it does have volume control. It also lacks volume and source memory on power cycle.

There is also SMSL’s own SU-8, with remote, volume control, and balanced outs. It has lower measured performance, the ESS hump, and no Bluetooth. It has also had to have a revision due to a design flaw, is only $30 cheaper, and it’s display is a joke (this is the DAC I use in my living room, v1, and I am satisfied).

I could continue with the D50s, many others from SMSL, and a myriad of others I’m forgetting, but my point is that this seems to be well positioned in price, performance, and features. It’s incredible what is available for under $300 today in a DAC.

Jitter at -130db, and spurious tones at below -110db don’t pose audible concerns, and I doubt they even point to poor engineering. We have a glut of options now, it’s really amazing how much things have changed in just the last 2 years!