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Tannoy System 600 Speaker Review

BYRTT

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In the attached file you can see how REW export looks for PIR vs the Klippel PIR data.

Will be interesting hear what rating it will arrive when MZKM had a look at it thanks :)

Did the three different EQ massage below, first is focus textbook smooth on-axis, second is focus textbook smooth PIR, and third is PIR as Toole's trained listener curve. Think could be interesting how rating system would judge them three in numbers but it would be tons of manual work edit rows out and unite six of the curves into same txt-file, although a one time well adapted automated macro in MS Excell could do the job in one click : )
1.png

2.png

3.png
 

QMuse

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However, the dried up ferrofluid is causing the overall level of the tweeter to be lower. That is exacerabating the depth of the dip.

Spec is stating sensitivity of 90dB and the average level of the tweeter is certainly lower than that. But on the other hand, average level in the 100Hz-1000Hz range pretty much matches the average level of the tweeter (app 87dB).

Capture.JPG



Also, it is not very smart to assume that an alleged 1.8kHz over ..

Data about "alleged" XO point were taken from user manual, posted here.
 
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Frank Dernie

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The Golds got expensive because they used obsolete magnet structures (AlNiCo) and the Pepperpot phase plug was a crude, labor intensive design. Basically Tannoy just drilled holes in a cap.

I believe the Tulip phase plug driver was designed by Mark Dodd. He's now chief engineer at KEF. While the phase plug was "simpler" than the Pepperpot, being a series injection molded shaped tubes that press fit together, overall the engineering was far superior. The tweeter aligned easily on three points. The phase plug was dimensionally stable and fit together properly.
Thanks for that.
I'm referring to these monitors which seem like a new product. Don't know much about the company's history though, so if they are just a refresh of an old design or something, I suppose that's less interesting.
I didn't know about these.
Tannoy now is not the "Tannoy" of long history because they were bought out by a big company and a lot of key people left.
They started Fyne as @jhaider points out above.
I have heard loads of older Tannoy speakers in different cabinets and generally liked them, but not heard anything since the re-birth. Tannoy monitors were the big expensive standards in recording studios here back in the 60s and 70s and maybe 80s.
 

jhaider

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Spec is stating sensitivity of 90dB and the average level of the tweeter is certainly lower than that. But on the other hand, average level in the 100Hz-1000Hz range pretty much matches the average level of the tweeter (app 87dB).

What you’re correctly observing is lack of compensation for “baffle step” in the woofer crossover.

Data about "alleged" XO point were taken from user manual, posted here.

As someone with some experience measuring loudspeakers, I take claimed crossover points with a grain of salt. Hence “alleged.” Note that my measurements of Tannoy XT 8F showed a crossover point (as I see it - this isn’t black and white) different from spec.
 

Andreas007

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Somehow I get the feeling that main issues of the speaker industry are sample variation and QC.
Good to know, but not so good for poor Amir...
 

QMuse

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With a company like Tannoy I would presume (maybe incorrectly) that at one point the speaker's real-world measurements were not egregiously different from the graph in the manual.

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't. I'm not saying that FR masurement is fake, I'm saying it cannot be trusted until it is confirmed by independent measurement.
 

restorer-john

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I'm sorry, but I wouldn't. I'm not saying that FR masurement is fake, I'm saying it cannot be trusted until it is confirmed by independent measurement.

An "independent measurement" is somehow superior to a 94 year old company with the engineering chops and historical legacy of Tannoy?

So what if you don't trust their documentation supplied with the speaker and printed measurements. Seriously? You're just a random guy on the internet, like all of us. Trust is earned through hard work, and Tannoy have earned theirs in spades. Their credibility is a given.

Casting aspersions on pioneering high fidelity companies and businesses that have stood the test of time is extremely tiresome and becoming a particularly unattractive trait of ASR. I suggest reading some historical documentation and learning a thing or two about Tannoy before saying you cannot trust their measurements.

Here's a bit of history:

https://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy52.htm
 
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Sancus

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An "independent measurement" is somehow superior to a 94 year old company with the engineering chops and historical legacy of Tannoy?

I actually don't care at all about history and legacy of manufacturing companies, only results and price. You could say I'm a normal consumer. :)

I find romanticization of corporations to be distasteful in general.
 

restorer-john

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I actually don't care at all about history and legacy of manufacturing companies, only results and price. You could say I'm a normal consumer. :)

I find romanticization of corporations to be distasteful in general.

Results and price eh? So clearly, you wouldn't buy a Rolex, you'd buy a Casio or Timex- that's fine. Cheap and does the job I guess.

Most "normal consumers" base their buying decisions on a whole lot more than "results" and "price". Take Apple for instance. Nobody buys Apple products because they are the best, the fastest, or the cheapest- they buy because they want the legacy, the association with the brand, the group acceptance and a reasonable, but by no means state-of-the-art product, that looks good. And remind me again how successful they have been with that business model? Last time I checked, it seemed to working OK for them.

What I find distasteful is absolute pioneering legends and legendary companies, ones that forged the testing protocols, pushed the envelopes of performance and created the entire industry as we know it, are trampled upon by people who literally have zero concept of anything other than the latest flavour-of-the-month product being peddled as SOTA, paradigm shifting and "obsoletes all before it", only to be replaced itself in a few months by and equally short-lived industry darling "game changer". It's hilarious.
 
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amirm

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Results and price eh? So clearly, you wouldn't buy a Rolex, you'd buy a Casio or Timex- that's fine. Cheap and does the job I guess.
Nothing about this speaker remotely resembles a Rolex. It is a utilitarian speaker. The measurement in its current state shows that it doesn't last long and so doesn't perform that utility anymore.

What I find distasteful is absolute pioneering legends and legendary companies, ones that forged the testing protocols, pushed the envelopes of performance and created the entire industry as we know it, are trampled upon by people who literally have zero concept of anything other than the latest flavour-of-the-month product being peddled as SOTA, paradigm shifting and "obsoletes all before it", only to be replaced itself in a few months by and equally short-lived industry darling "game changer". It's hilarious.
The only thing hilarious is picking this time and place to complain this way.....

In this forum, we rely on what we can prove and demonstrate. No nationalism. No bias because of this and that. An instrument measures the thing and it either performs or doesn't. Should not be a hard concept to accept.
 

Wombat

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This forum is also not about uninformed presumptions and assumptions. I think that was the point @restorer-john was making.
 

restorer-john

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Nothing about this speaker remotely resembles a Rolex. It is a utilitarian speaker. The measurement in its current state shows that it doesn't last long and so doesn't perform that utility anymore.

You are the one making the link to Rolex and the tested speaker, not me. I am merely illustrating using a random example, the absolute folly in @Sancus statement, and the fact that consumers do not, on the whole, purchase on mere "results" and "price". If that was the case, the Timex would suit everyone as it keeps perfect time and costs next to nothing.

People buy for various reasons and yours, mine, or Sancus's reasons are no better or more "correct" than anyone else's.

In this forum, we rely on what we can prove and demonstrate. No nationalism. No bias because of this and that. An instrument measures the thing and it either performs or doesn't. Should not be a hard concept to accept.

No, the forum members rely on what you demonstrate and what you measure. Or what you choose not to measure. There is no "we". The members themselves, don't prove or demonstrate anything, nor do they get very far if they question the methods. I am of the opinion that the testing you are undertaking with speakers does not serve to characterize the speakers in typical use-scenarios. Many agree with me. Others choose to think otherwise, that's fine, but the wholesale trashing of brands and products in review thread after review thread by the peanut gallery is just puerile and detracts from the good work you were doing.

And yes, there is some nationalism and a clear bias towards anything out of the Harman group of companies. I am absolutely flabbergasted you would say otherwise. A casual visitor to ASR would think (Sidney) Harman invented High Fidelity and Floyd Toole was the only person to write a book on audio.

Anyway, in the spirit of less confrontation and peace and goodwill towards men, I'm out of this thread, feel free to have the last word. :)
 

Sancus

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Most "normal consumers" base their buying decisions on a whole lot more than "results" and "price". Take Apple for instance. Nobody buys Apple products because they are the best, the fastest, or the cheapest- they buy because they want the legacy, the association with the brand, the group acceptance and a reasonable, but by no means state-of-the-art product, that looks good. And remind me again how successful they have been with that business model? Last time I checked, it seemed to working OK for them.

Bad example. Apple products are state of the art in a number of ways, as anyone who criticizes them is forced to admit. I don't like them as a company, but they're not a purely status-based business. There's a reason that "just recommend your non-technical friends buy an Apple phone/PC/etc." is a thing among tech workers.

What I find distasteful is absolute pioneering legends and legendary companies, ones that forged the testing protocols, pushed the envelopes of performance and created the entire industry as we know it, are trampled upon by people who literally have zero concept of anything other than the latest flavour-of-the-month product being peddled as SOTA, paradigm shifting and "obsoletes all before it", only to be replaced itself in a few months by and equally short-lived industry darling "game changer". It's hilarious.

Again, don't care. Historical relevance doesn't translate to a good product in 2020. What have you built for me lately, is my question. If they're still doing things old ways, chances are the answer is "nothing good".

If they're doing a lot of current research and development, the answer could be the complete opposite!
 

Wombat

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Bad example. Apple products are state of the art in a number of ways, as anyone who criticizes them is forced to admit. I don't like them as a company, but they're not a purely status-based business. There's a reason that "just recommend your non-technical friends buy an Apple phone/PC/etc." is a thing among tech workers.



Again, don't care. Historical relevance doesn't translate to a good product in 2020. What have you built for me lately, is my question. If they're still doing things old ways, chances are the answer is "nothing good".

If they're doing a lot of current research and development, the answer could be the complete opposite!

"Chances are", "'could be". You need to qualify your arguments, otherwise they are just rhetoric as your "thing among tech-workers" is. :rolleyes:
 
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Dimitri

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superior to a 94 year old company with the engineering chops and historical legacy of Tannoy?
Sold to Harman, merged with Goodmans to form TGI ; TGI aquired by TC, and TC aquired by Music Tribe (Music Tribe, parent company of Behringer, Bugera, as well as British pro audio icons Midas, Turbosound, and Klark Teknik acquired the TC Group bringing together different brands catering to different areas of the professional audio industry )

Names are going by the way of Fisher, Land Rover,Harman ,Nakamichi, JBL, Blaupunkt and it's not over yet...
 

Wombat

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Sold to Harman, merged with Goodmans to form TGI ; TGI aquired by TC, and TC aquired by Music Tribe (Music Tribe, parent company of Behringer, Bugera, as well as British pro audio icons Midas, Turbosound, and Klark Teknik acquired the TC Group bringing together different brands catering to different areas of the professional audio industry )

Names are going by the way of Fisher, Land Rover,Harman ,Nakamichi, JBL, Blaupunkt and it's not over yet...

And? How has that affected Tannoy? More resources and building on their creds or otherwise? No guesses please. :)
 
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amirm

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No, the forum members rely on what you demonstrate and what you measure. Or what you choose not to measure. There is no "we". The members themselves, don't prove or demonstrate anything, nor do they get very far if they question the methods. I am of the opinion that the testing you are undertaking with speakers does not serve to characterize the speakers in typical use-scenarios. Many agree with me.
I measure speakers according to national and international standard, ANSI/CTA-2034. This is the forward to it:

1583815798878.png


It is based on decades of research into what makes speaker sound good to consumers. Not some concept an individual designer has. But real, proper, peer-reviewed research that correlates measurements with listener preference.

In addition, I have purchased a system that in an automated manner, produces this very measurements. And the company behind it is a world-class and premier speaker and driver measurement company.

If you don't see value in it, then you know where the door is. Don't stay and come into these speaker threads just to whine and complain. I don't appreciate that and I know many others who do not either.
 
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