Tekton M-Lore Speaker Review

[amirm]

Not so, one of the largest company in the UK has been critizied for not having klippel.

Huh? You don't have to have a klippel. You take your speaker to an anechoic chamber and measure it there. There are also services that perform measurements on Klippel for you. A set of measurements like I publish costs about $2,000. Not much money in the context a development cost of a new speaker. Of course, you would do your own preliminary testing before committing to that expense.

 

[Ron Texas]

@Theta you are outnumbered. Either assimilate here or it's the Borg for you.

 

[kemmler3D]

Hmm....only a member since Dec and a very large percentage of your 78 posts are blindly defending Tekton and Eric. Interesting.

In terms of being treated with respect, someone posting gaslighting garbage like the above hasn't earned any respect.

A classic blunder ... having a green sock puppet account. It's not suspicious for someone to have a divergent opinion about something. It's suspicious for someone to have no opinions except the divergent one...

 

[Ron Texas]

A classic blunder ... having a green sock puppet account. It's not suspicious for someone to have a divergent opinion about something. It's suspicious for someone to have no opinions except the divergent one...

It could be Eric or someone else connected to the company, or it could be someone who owns a pair of their speakers, has a fan boy mentality and likes conflict.

 

[AdamG]

A classic blunder ... having a green sock puppet account. It's not suspicious for someone to have a divergent opinion about something. It's suspicious for someone to have no opinions except the divergent one...

It could be Eric or someone else connected to the company, or it could be someone who owns a pair of their speakers, has a fan boy mentality and likes conflict.

Yet we permit them to have a voice and will continue to do so as long as they respect our “Terms and Rules” of service (linked in my Sig).

 

[Eric Alexander]

@Eric Alexander I have a hard time following your current argument.

In your initial response to the review, you told us this

The facts are most audiophiles don't go for the frequency response and corrections the reviewer has suggested. The only linear loudspeaker models we offer are intended for professional studio engineering and they are tools for a toolbox. Changing crossover parts values to flatten the frequency response is a super simple task; my job is to get the speaker sounding right for an audiophile.

From this, I believe that we can assume that you have clearly stated that linear response wasn't your goal when you designed that speaker. Fair enough, and it seems that Amir merely confirmed that the speaker was not linear, which should come as good news regarding your design goal, no?

What am I missing here? Maybe you were aiming for another non-linear response? The one you have determined as sounding right for an audiophile? It would be really interesting to know what your target was. Did Amir and its Klippel measure the wrong dips and bumps?

Likewise, you said

Erici, Sure. my official position is 'the FACTS are Amir didn't measure the loudspeaker correctly and placed the loudspeaker in a false light.'

and then immediately

I believe Amir is capable of measuring a loudspeaker; it's his understanding of acoustical physics that I intend to expose and cast a light upon.

So which one is it? Wrong measurements or wrong understanding?

As it stands, this sounds a bit contradictory and seems to indicate either that the part you don't like is Amir's subjective assessment of your speaker or, more generally, that the target Amir expected is fundamentally wrong. The latter would surprise me as it seems that most other highly regarded manufacturers (Genelec, Kef, Focal, Neuman and a at least another dozen others) precisely aim for that target (and controlled directivity, lack of resonances, etc).

I won't dispute the suggestion that different persons will have different tastes in FR and EQ. But, in that case, would a well-behaved linear design not be a better and more easily adaptable to taste starting point?

I'm not conflicted about anything. Amir didn't measure the speaker correctly - he came up with the wrong frequency response and impedance; he put the speaker in a false light. Again, we're producing a YouTube video that focuses on his mistakes/oversights.

Regarding linear frequency response... anyone producing a perfect linear loudspeaker and the consumers shopping for perfectly linear loudspeaker isn't seeing the big picture - quote me on this. I was manufacturing linear speakers 30 years ago - it's easy... anyone can do it. Flat frequency response is a naturally intuitive path for speaker designers and reviewers but it's it's not what a highly enlightened or well-informed acoustical physicist is going to ultimately end up with.

Eric Alexander - audio designer

 

[muslhead]

I'm not conflicted about anything. Amir didn't measure the speaker correctly - he came up with the wrong frequency response and impedance; he put the speaker in a false light. Again, we're producing a YouTube video that focuses on his mistakes/oversights.

Regarding linear frequency response... anyone producing a perfect linear loudspeaker and the consumers shopping for perfectly linear loudspeaker isn't seeing the big picture - quote me on this. I was manufacturing linear speakers 30 years ago - it's easy... anyone can do it. Flat frequency response is a naturally intuitive path for speaker designers and reviewers but it's it's not what a highly enlightened or well-informed acoustical physicist is going to ultimately end up with.

Eric Alexander - audio designer

 

[kemmler3D]

Amir didn't measure the speaker correctly - he came up with the wrong frequency response and impedance;

Can we see the measurements you consider to be correct, somewhere?

he put the speaker in a false light.

Are you using "false light" in its legal sense?

 

[Everett T]

Looks like Stereophile is having its own dust up. They are likely concerned as one of their reviewers has Tekton Moab's for their "reference" system and they have published several favorable reviews of Tekton speakers.

I don't think it is unusual for these circumstances to occur at some publications, and we just continue to use the "with a grain of salt" approach on the subjective comments.

I'd love to hear the MOABs in their most ideal setup for an evaluation but I doubt that it will never be possible.

 

[napfkuchen]

The speakers were sent to Amir by a member. Who knows if he did not change some caps or resistor on the filters.

Go one step further. Why not claim that the member himself tampered with the speaker - the product he bought with his own money - so that it performed poorly in the test. This argument is completely irrational. It is known that manufacturers check their test samples particularly carefully (completely ok) and occasionally - to put it politely - optimize them (not ok). For this reason, test products are also purchased anonymously off the shelf. But it is obvious that this only works for large, independent testing institutes with the appropriate financial resources (in Germany, for example, the “Stiftung Warentest”). I would therefore trust the test of a product provided by a regular end customer significantly more than one provided by the manufacturer for this purpose...

Also as Eric said this speaker was not intended to represent a faultless flat curve in an anachoic space.

That's a shame, because it means that the speaker will not deliver a convincing performance in real use.

One must be very carefull, this is not some cheap chinese import, it is an American product, reputation and jobs at stake here.

If you follow this argument, any criticism of a product is prohibited. I looked at Erin's test before it was deleted and didn't see any smear campaign in it.

 

[Cbdb2]

Flat frequency response is a naturally intuitive path for speaker designers and reviewers but it's it's not what a highly enlightened or well-informed acoustical physicist is going to ultimately end up with.

So Nuemann, Genelec, Meyer, etc etc are not well informed. I guess they need to go to acoustical church so they can become highly enlightened like you.

 

[kemmler3D]

If you follow this argument, any criticism of a product is prohibited. I looked at Erin's test before it was deleted and didn't see any smear campaign in it.

In the US it's completely legal to destroy a manufacturer's reputation and business with a review, as long as you aren't flat-out lying or at least legally negligent in the facts.

In fact, it is an important function of the press in a free market - one might even say it's a duty - to destroy the reputations of bad manufacturers and products. If the reputations of bad products aren't "destroyed" somehow, a market cannot function even at a basic level.

e: I'm not even saying any Tekton products are bad. Just saying that if a product is bad, people should know it's bad, and nobody should have the right to suppress that information.

 

[PatentLawyer]

I'm not conflicted about anything. Amir didn't measure the speaker correctly - he came up with the wrong frequency response and impedance; he put the speaker in a false light. Again, we're producing a YouTube video that focuses on his mistakes/oversights.

Regarding linear frequency response... anyone producing a perfect linear loudspeaker and the consumers shopping for perfectly linear loudspeaker isn't seeing the big picture - quote me on this. I was manufacturing linear speakers 30 years ago - it's easy... anyone can do it. Flat frequency response is a naturally intuitive path for speaker designers and reviewers but it's it's not what a highly enlightened or well-informed acoustical physicist is going to ultimately end up with.

Eric Alexander - audio designer

And what if this supposed video of yours puts Amir in a "false light"? Turnabout is fair play, right?

 

[teched58]

I'm not conflicted about anything. Amir didn't measure the speaker correctly - he came up with the wrong frequency response and impedance; he put the speaker in a false light. Again, we're producing a YouTube video that focuses on his mistakes/oversights.

Regarding linear frequency response... anyone producing a perfect linear loudspeaker and the consumers shopping for perfectly linear loudspeaker isn't seeing the big picture - quote me on this. I was manufacturing linear speakers 30 years ago - it's easy... anyone can do it. Flat frequency response is a naturally intuitive path for speaker designers and reviewers but it's it's not what a highly enlightened or well-informed acoustical physicist is going to ultimately end up with.

Eric Alexander - audio designer

We've been producing perfectly linear frequency response options for recording engineers as long as we've been producing speakers.

With respect, Eric, the locutions you've used throughout this thread -- "perfectly linear frequency response," "perfectly linear loudspeaker," the point being your use of the adjective "perfectly"-- betray the approach of an amateur designer. What even does "perfect" mean. Is it +/0 db over the whole audible FR? Please.

Engineers don't talk like that.

In describing its pro monitors, Neumann uses the term "linear frequency response" and then properly qualifies it, a al 40 Hz to 21 kHz (+/- 3db.). Genelec doesn't appear to use either "perfect" or "linear," instead giving for its 1237A Studio Monitor the extremely helpful and quantitative FRs of: 37 Hz - 20 kHz (+/- 2.5 db) and then 32 Hz - 22 kHz (-6 dB).

But Neumann and Genelec don't really have to say "perfect," because the specs of their pro monitors speak for themselves.

When used as you have, "perfectly" becomes a marketing term, not a technical one. On a technical basis, speakers aren't"perfect" because they are designed by engineers to specifications derived from requirements that typically balance desired performance, price point and product positioning. I don't want to go into a longer, nuanced disquistion, because it will bore the ASR membership and you probably wouldn't understand what I'm talking about.

Speaking of which. are you able to read and understand all the measurements John Atkinson posted for the Moab?

 

[tomtoo]

Iam fu#ing like to see this video. Thats it. So do what you say. It gets boring.
Amir has every right to stop that BS from you on his platform. But he is a man of honor. You have some data that supports your critics than show it.

 

[Everett T]

You don't know the "whole story" in anything in your everyday life. If you drive out your car, how do you know a drunk person is not waiting to hit you on the road? You don't but make a calculated risk that is very unlikely to happen.

What if the manufacturer changes said cap or resistor as they are producing the speaker post testing? How would you know that part of the story? Do you get a legal statement from them that nothing is changed post a review of a product they sent in? What if they hand pick that sample they send in for review? How would you know that?

Finally, you are given full notice of what was tested. If you don't like the fact that this is a sample that a customer bought, then ignore the review. Don't go trying to create FUD that components may have been changed and your fellow member was dishonorable in not telling me that.

It's a conspiracy theory! You totally can tell he has full working knowledge of ASR, lol.
1)We buy speakers
2)Pay to ship one of them to you for review knowing it could take a few weeks to get our speaker back
3)You take hours of your unpaid time to complete a review,
4) You box and ship the speaker back to us, all so we can hear you write a review that may or may not be less than favorable.(all to hurt the manufacturer seems to be the take)

Where does altering the speaker crossover or drivers come into play in any of this? Also, I'm not sure why people take these things so personally, if the manufacturer has a discrepancy with the objective data, they should present you with their measurements, even if limited by scope, and see if there is an issue. If the consumer is happy with the speaker's sound, that's all that should matter to them.

That should have been where this went but intead we got a little pot stirring fun.

 

[Hart]

"I know a thing or two..." Good heavens. The reproduction of sound is 100% science. You are tasked with replicating the original source as close as possible. If you are changing that sound to effect some "creative" solution then you are not reproducing sound, you are coloring it. One example is when manufacturers make a very bright speaker: sounds crisp in the showroom, but becomes fatiguing pretty fast at home. That is an example of taking creative license.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Where does altering the speaker crossover or drivers come into play in any of this? Also, I'm not sure why people take these things so personally, if the manufacturer has a discrepancy with the objective data, they should present you with their measurements, even if limited by scope, and see if there is an issue. If the consumer is happy with the speaker's sound, that's all that should matter to them.

And there have been times when questions, discrepancies and damaged speakers have been worked thru by Amir and manufacturers. So it isn't like he won't do that. There was the issue with bass being effected by his test site when it was colder than normal. Plus a few more. Amir has retested, investigated, and done right by those people to ascertain the truth.

 

[tomtoo]

Its poor and gets more poor from day to day.

 

[doug s.]

Other than Kalman Rubinson, I find pretty much zero value in any subjective comments from Stereophile "reviewers". I think it's safe to say that the Moabs aren't disasters but that you can purchase more neutral speakers, that will perform well in a much wider set of listening spaces, for much lower cost...do you agree with that statement?

the be moabs? absolutely! i previously listed a few i'd definitely consider if i had that sort of budget. or even half that budget; i'd still be looking at piega, blumenhofer and horning.
(edit, to be clear i agree w/your statement that i'd never consider purchasing moab be's at $30k, when i believe there are far better choices at that price level.)

the standard moabs? i think they offer great value for the price. (i'm basing this on owner feedback, and having listened to the less expensive double impacts. they were extremely good at the asking price. i actually considered purchasing a used show pair of moabs a couple years ago, that was offered at a great price. but i couldn't stand the thought of that ford mustang blue color in my house. if the were charcoal or lighter gray, i might have made an offer. today, after having seen how eric behaves? not a chance.

doug s.