I had to stop at aspirin to LSD.
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Stereophile and Audio Cables
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dtaylo1066
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We are all a bunch of biased humans, whether consciously or unconsciously. And it is quite easy to let certain parts of our brain lead us into thinking something, especially if we want it to be true or have been told it is true.
I have never really bought into the cable thing, as one would have to explain to me what's so special about what's happening to those electrons.
Other than acceptable wire, coating and a good connection, I not paying too much for cables or any kind.
In golf, players contend they can feel the difference between irons that are made from cast steel vs those that are forged. Forged irons are slammed into shape by a multi-ton machine from a chunk of carbon steel. Cast irons are made from molten steel poured into a cast. The steel used in forged irons is typically a bit lower on the Rockwell hardness scale than the steel used in cast clubs.
Repeated studies show that a golfer cannot tell the difference when striking a golf ball between using a forged or cast club head, yet many will claim the forged "feels like butter." Both types of steel are so hard that for one to perceive a difference of a ball strike, from a ball that is compressed upon being hit, transfers that compression energy through a club head, up through a shaft, through a grip and into the player's hand does not make sense in terms of physics.
But it sells a lot of forged clubs, which cost more, as forging is much more expensive than cast production. Go tap on two thick pieces of steel and tell me which has the higher Rockwell hardness rating? Not gonna happen in a statistically significant way.
I have never really bought into the cable thing, as one would have to explain to me what's so special about what's happening to those electrons.
Other than acceptable wire, coating and a good connection, I not paying too much for cables or any kind.
In golf, players contend they can feel the difference between irons that are made from cast steel vs those that are forged. Forged irons are slammed into shape by a multi-ton machine from a chunk of carbon steel. Cast irons are made from molten steel poured into a cast. The steel used in forged irons is typically a bit lower on the Rockwell hardness scale than the steel used in cast clubs.
Repeated studies show that a golfer cannot tell the difference when striking a golf ball between using a forged or cast club head, yet many will claim the forged "feels like butter." Both types of steel are so hard that for one to perceive a difference of a ball strike, from a ball that is compressed upon being hit, transfers that compression energy through a club head, up through a shaft, through a grip and into the player's hand does not make sense in terms of physics.
But it sells a lot of forged clubs, which cost more, as forging is much more expensive than cast production. Go tap on two thick pieces of steel and tell me which has the higher Rockwell hardness rating? Not gonna happen in a statistically significant way.
Likely that anyone who can afford interconnects that cost as much as a car is beyond the point of no return when it comes to hubris. Herb’s article serves a few purposes. The first is, trust me bro I’ve heard so many expensive systems and I know what I’m talking about. Now that we’ve got that out of the way, the second is, the fee to join our club is $10,000/meter for cables. Third, if you can’t afford the club dues then you ought to envy those who can.
DSJR
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I had a Krell KSA50S power amp from the 90s for a while. It may have been 'baby' of the range, but it looked mean enough and sounded absolutely fine to me. Thing is, I'd look at it and then to my preamp (the CD source was once expensive so fitted the bill), wondering if the preamp (which to me was audibly transparent compared to being bypassed) was good enough, should I save for a matching Krell KRC2 or summat and then what about the cables and so on. It's a state of mind thing I believe, this 'high end' malarky and I wasn't in that league. The fact that playing at what I felt wasn't loud into vintage Spendors and Harbeths caused the plateau bias to enter 'cooking mode' in the space I had to site it even with some air around it and I feared for it's longer term life as after half an hour's use at the medium bias level (out of three levels on this model) the heat-sinks were too hot to touch. The chap I sold it to posts here and loves it to bits with no emotional sh*t about what to partner it with and no heat issues he tells me and that's wonderful. I retained my ancient fugly old Crown which into the easy loads my boxes offer, 'sounds' the same (it'd current limit terminally into the 1-2 ohm or so loads the Krell was designed to work with, but I can live with that).
Nah, these rich peeps buy very exoensive gear and MUST have similar expensive foo wires and other add-ons at very high prices to go with them. They'd not be seen dead with mere Van Damme or RS mic cables and they'd arguably sniff at Mogami too. My Krell/ML owning pal swears by 'Transparent' Reference and above cables and told me their mains filters (with four sockets each at the time) must only be used with two items for best 'sound' and these things cost a bloody kings ransom!
My professors must have been done a better job teaching me than their professors did. I have a bachelors degree in physics, but it doesn't mater if it's work or hobby stuff, any time i get an unexpected result (even a good one) the first thing that comes to mind is what did i fu** up! Only after I have double or some times even triple checked I did nothing wrong am i happy with the results! Not to mention actual work gets peer reviewed.
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mhardy6647
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That is a really healthy attitude in the sciences, too!
Sometimes, the interesting results actually are interesting results, but the good researchers start by assuming they must've mucked up something and start by ruling that out (or not, as the case may be)!
OP
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Obviously almost no ASR member is in to cable reviews. It was more about Atkinson's response, and musing generally about Stereophile's relationship to cable reviews (why there have been so few, given you can find other audio mags that routinely review cables).
This forum constantly discusses mistaken audiophile claims. Amir addresses them all the time, even puts out videos discussing and testing them. I highlighted this review for the reasons above. Plenty of people have felt it worth responding. You can always exercise your own restraint and ignore threads that don't interest you.
If we are interested in FUD about skin depth, there is a great post here that deserves to be remembered (I did):
Technical Article: Does Audio Cable Skin Effect Matter
Outdoor cable has weather and UV ptotection. And then theres direct burial cable that has special insulation and is full of moisture repelling gel. The amount of engineering thats gone into "regular" (not audiophool) cable is enormous, many orders of magnitude more than one uneducated guy at...
audiosciencereview.com
Notice that the Stereophile prose was FUD too, and therefore very much like a repeat of other threads on ASR.
OP
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If we are interested in FUD about skin depth, there is a great post here that deserves to be remembered (I did):
Technical Article: Does Audio Cable Skin Effect Matter
Outdoor cable has weather and UV ptotection. And then theres direct burial cable that has special insulation and is full of moisture repelling gel. The amount of engineering thats gone into "regular" (not audiophool) cable is enormous, many orders of magnitude more than one uneducated guy at...
Notice that the Stereophile prose was FUD too, and therefore very much like a repeat of other threads on ASR.
Well, I think "FUD" is a pretty dramatic way to characterize a standard cable review and Atkinson's response. But...whatever...
I thought perhaps we might also see some more direct explanations as to why Atkinson's points were wrong or implausible. But mostly it's been dismissed.
Thanks for the link.
I'm not into anything Herb Reichart opines about, think he's a douche.
ps And Atkinson/Stereophile is barely more interesting due the staff.
But they'll never tell the truth, it's all a bunch of snake-oil BS.
Inside the reviews of nearly every component are the comments that constantly support the claim of cables having an effect on the systems sonic performance. Even just the list of the reviewers system which includes some very expensive cables is a sideways claim of their importance.
Atkinson is the king of blowing smoke up your butt.
I've read review after review for years where a product measured like crap but JA always finds some artful way of supporting
the subjective reviewers results, saying that in-spite of the measurement failings, Mikey Fremer was correct in describing how glorious that 5wpc SET amp with 12% THD sounded.
That just proves that his deceptive technique was effective (for some people).
No, before proving his points wrong, how about He/they/stereophile proves that there are audible differences? Once they do THAT, then, and only then, can we start to look for obscure reasons why.
I appreciate the way you respectfully disagree, since I generally appreciate mutual respect.
Exactly. They don't need to do frequent review of cables to keep the idea of cables in the heads of their readers. They mention cables frequently in reviews of other gear (amps, speakers, etc). They have a section for cables in their recommended gear lists.
Exactly why I find them unreliable.
I hate to brag, but I recently bought a 6 pack of 1.2 foot balanced cables for $32. They look fine and work great at what they are supposed to do.
Why would anyone want to be a member of a club where ignorance and gullibility are the entrance requirements?
Some people revel in what others don't have? Or think that such cables elevates them to another level of human being?
Weird, I know....
OP
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Fair enough. We all got opinions. I like Herb's speaker reviews.
Personally I think JA deserves some more credit than that. He has produced more speaker measurements than probably anyone else - they are referenced on this site all the time. He does his best to elucidate or diagnose possible issues in measurements of speakers, amps etc. You can read the subjective review if you want, or skip it, and JA will put out the measurements warts and all, and he doesn't hide the warts generally.
I understand that much of the good work JA has done over the years might be dismissed by some people as JA doesn't pass the purity tests of ASR. This place can be fairly tribal sometimes.
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