HIFIMAN Susvara Headphone Review

[digicidal]

Let me help you.
Consider two options
- space limitations
- external noise or not wanting to make all your house to listen your music

I hope that it will broad your view.

Perhaps needlessly pedantic, but while those two points are undoubtedly the top 2 reasons for using headphones - along with mobility and eliminating room involvement - I'd say the term "headphone culture" describes quite a different set of parameters. Just like the vast ideological expanse separating the majority of audiophiles from music lovers.

 

[IAtaman]

I will answer this but then you need to move this generic discussion out of a review thread.

I make objective measurements. I assess those. I then perform confirmation using equalization and (subjective) listening tests. I combine all of this and my experience reviewing huge number of headphones and provide some concluding remarks. Experienced members can read and judge the measurements on their own and don't need my conclusions. Others do and value what I have to say at the end.

Alright, will definitely do.

Allow me then speak about this specific headphone and your conclusions, which I quoted below.

Alas, objective measurements show issues across the board. Response is quite variable beyond typical noise. Has deficiencies against our target. And importantly, appears to have serious resonance issues that manifest themselves in distortion graphs

You claim it has deficiencies against Harman target.

In reality, tonal balance of the headphone is OK. It is not great, but it is not bad either. It would land somewhere between Good and Excellent categories according to the actual Harman research. Objectively, this headphone is more compliant to research than many other headphones you recommended.

You claim it has serious resonance issues that manifest themselves in distortion graphs. Distortion is not great for a top of the line headphone but objectively they have no impact on sound quality. You have not only recommended much worse distorting headphones before, but you also know these are objectively irrelevant, that is why you say :

I have my standards of how much power a headphone needs to be able to handle and the Susvara falls way short of that

Your standards? What are those standards exactly? What makes your standards objective - is there research or data that supports that?

If you are saying I listened to them, they did not sound good, I will not dispute that. But there is absolutely no objective basis to claim these headphones would sound bad.

 

[Nango]

First Desperate sellers Seen on headfi ADS ...hahaha

 

[Fidji]

Let me help you.
Consider two options
- space limitations
- external noise or not wanting to make all your house to listen your music

I hope that it will broad your view.

and essential hipster accessory ;-)

 

[solderdude]

But, I have a question to @solderdude this is not in par with your review

Actually it is (except for the conclusion).

Below 200Hz we have a different target (mine vs Harman OE)
The dip at 2kHz is -7.5dB and because my measurement lacks a pinna it is -10dB in mine.
The 6kHz dip in my plots is caused by the lack of an ear canal.
The overall findings are the same.

As for the distortion at 114dB. No one ever listens to 114dB peaks at 1kHz and 5kHz. 114dB SPL in the bass is fine and that's where the bulk of the energy in music is.
IMO one should look at 114dB distortion plots only up to 300Hz or so.
When low bass notes are 120dB SPL this is perceived at about 90Phon and some short peaks around 1kHz could reach around 105dB or so.
I measured an increase in distortion too at 4kHz which is caused by a resonance. Our hearing resonates too at that frequency so a resonance there is not very problematic.
I did listen at 'comfortable levels' though and did not hear any distortion. This is not surprising as Amir wrote:
If you don't exceed medium loud levels distortion would not impact you.
My earlobes did not reach shake levels and did not reach medium loud levels (which I call comfortable loud).

You need a hefty amp because at 92dB/V (I measured the same) you will need 27V (12W) in 60ohm which is exactly what the Benchmark AHB2 delivers.

The only thing we differ on is the sound quality:

A short sound description would be: VERY realistic sounding, effortless. Very clear sounding with a soft yet not subdued treble. I would perhaps say the treble may be very slightly (and tastefully) elevated.
The sound is very dynamic and has an almost? unparalleled realism to it.
Bass is punchy and tight and well extended. Mids sound ‘laid back’ yet very real and are forward enough with a proper amount of clarity.
For well made recordings it sounds just right. For pop music it may be lacking slightly in body as this type of music often asks for slightly elevated bass response.

This isn't Harman tuning though. I also do not include the price in the sound evaluation nor what amp is needed.
I quite liked it but won't own it because of the price. I could perfectly drive it to decent levels with my headphone amp, huge amounts of power are only needed when you want to play it impressively loud.

Amir said:
the tonality was "OK" but nothing exciting for me
This does not surprise me as I wrote:
For pop music it may be lacking slightly in body as this type of music often asks for slightly elevated bass response.

So the reviews are not contradicting and show the same thing.
Bass light and at higher SPL it starts to distort at 4kHz.

I quite liked it but it is no secret that I do not seem to prefer Harman bass levels and do not listen at high levels other than briefly during testing to check how it holds up.

When one wants Harman tuning, low distortion and high SPL and not having to fork out a lot of money a € 25.- IEM will do and you can drive it from a phone.

 

[Sokel]

I have no love for Hifiman admittedly as I prefer EU or US products when the price tag rises more that 500$ but that's a really unfortunate result as I really like them visually and that's an important factor to me.

My BIG surprise (but not the technician's one as it seems) was the inability of the Benchmark to blow them up sky-high!

Thanks Amir!

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

and essential hipster accessory ;-)

View attachment 336757

I'm not sure if I should laugh or cringe or....

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Actually it is.

Below 200Hz we have a different target (mine vs Harman OE)
The dip at 2kHz id -7.5dB and because my measurement lacks a pinna it is -10dB in mine.
The 6kHz dip in my plots is caused by the lack of an ear canal.
The overall findings are the same.

As for the distortion at 114dB. No one ever listens to 114dB peaks at 1kHz and 5kHz. 114dB SPL in the bass is fine and that's where the bulk of the energy in music is.
IMO one should look at 114dB distortion plots only up to 300Hz or so.
When low bass notes are 120dB SPL this is perceived at about 90Phon and some short peaks around 1kHz could reach around 105dB or so.

You need a hefty amp because at 92dB/V (I measured the same) you will need 27V (12W) in 60ohm which is exactly what the Benchmark AHB2 delivers.

The only thing we differ on is the sound quality:

A short sound description would be: VERY realistic sounding, effortless. Very clear sounding with a soft yet not subdued treble. I would perhaps say the treble may be very slightly (and tastefully) elevated.
The sound is very dynamic and has an almost? unparalleled realism to it.
Bass is punchy and tight and well extended. Mids sound ‘laid back’ yet very real and are forward enough with a proper amount of clarity.
For well made recordings it sounds just right. For pop music it may be lacking slightly in body as this type of music often asks for slightly elevated bass response.

This isn't Harman tuning though. I also do not include the price in the sound evaluation nor what amp is needed.
I quite liked it but won't own it because of the price. I could perfectly drive it to decent levels with my headphone amp, huge amounts of power are only needed when you want to play it impressively loud.

I'm closer to amir findings in terms of sound.
Something was wrong in the vocal and treble area. Not sure if it was distortion resonances or both maybe on top of that something from inverted polarity.... Who knows
But to me they sounded hazy etheral, yes open sounding but just strange and sometimes wrong.

Strangely enough it was my second time that I had them at home for listen.
The first time at the beginning of my sound journey I listened them at the dealers place with this huge two boxes Hifiman amp and Iiked them a lot...
Second time was a big disappointment

 

[Chagall]

Arya poll majority voted as fine or great, and Susvara overwhelmingly as poor (Susvara has better FR, and distortion at 114dB matters only from an engineering point of view).

It seems like the price is the main factor in the headphone rating polls, with very little to do with how they perform.

I have no horse in this race - don't own or plan to own any Hifiman's, but poll bombing makes us all look silly and petty.

Thanks Amir for the review! I just wish the polls were taken more seriously.

 

[jody2k]

I guess my own ears and many ears of others over the 5 years fooled us all then? I could swear the HE6SE V2 and Susvara was the most delightful sounding headphones out there.

 

[usern]

I sat back and started to enjoy the fidelity which was at times quite excellent. That was at low and medium levels. With my dynamic tracks I crank up the volume and I was quite surprised when I started to hear static when I did not even have it super loud. Suspecting EQ being the problem, I defeatured the whole thing and problem remained (although required a bit more volume to get there). This is a showstopper in my book as the problem is not even the elevated bass with EQ where the problem usually occurs. I think the issue is the high frequency issues we have found.

Do you adjust the volume using headphone amp, dac or software?

 

[amirm]

Do you adjust the volume using headphone amp, dac or software?

Headphone amp.

 

[usern]

I'm quite a bit puzzled when you characterize headphone distortion sounding like static. I take static to mean white noise, but I guess you mean something else?

 

[migo77]

I'm listening to Susvara every day (at night) for 2 years now. I like what I'm hearing. I'm listening at very low level, amp output is 210mV at 1kHz sine, DAC output is 5V to amp. Maybe this is why I like the sound and don't hear the distortion.

I like measurements at ASR and all the hard work that is Amir and friends doing here. Is Susvara measuring badly? Yes! It is reality and I have no problem with it and everybody else should be fine too. Bad measurements doesn't mean that you cant like Susvara and can't be happy with it.

 

[Chagall]

I guess my own ears and many ears of others over the 5 years fooled us all then? I could swear the HE6SE V2 and Susvara was the most delightful sounding headphones out there.

Not sure about the most delightful, but certainly not bad sounding in general and a lot can happen in 5 years in terms of competition.

The problem as you can see is that 6K price point.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Dear amirm, if you have an old he6 ear cup on hand, similar to the one used by Beyerdynamic, using this ear cup will greatly improve the test results.

What are you suggesting? That a $6k headphone needs parts from another headphone to improve its performance from abysmal to acceptable?

 

[192kbps]

The legendary king of headphones is a shame.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

The audio industry in general is at a crossroad. Electronics are a solved problem. DACs, amplifiers have no more surprises or improvements to be brought; perhaps another digit to add to 120-ish dB SINAD, or extension from DC to the MHz? Else not much. $200, transparent (audibly and measurably) amplifiers quite capable of pushing 50 wpc are, now commonplace... so are audibly transparent, $10.oo DAC with a headphone amp built-in ...
.
Transducers were the last frontier. They gave, for a while, the impression that, they could (would?) escape the dreaded measurements... Not at all , as it turns out, and as many are noticing. One could disagree with the Harman Earphone curves, and that, compliance to these, is not required... but for this particular headphones, the rest of the measurements are quite ... strange, for the lack of a better word.... Such poor measurements seem incompatible with the violent asking price... especially when we have seen a slew of less dear headphones with better objective behavior ... and that, includes HifiMan's own HE400SE, which hovers around $100~200...

This is a stunt toward grabbing a piece of the HEA, with their tendency to equate price with quality. I would like to see this combo, "reviewed" by the likes of TAS or S'Phile.. : The list of superlatives would be quite long but.. there exist a few more expensive headphones... and yeah, the "Moh expensive = Moh better", would be at play...

Fortunately we now , know that in-ear high fidelity can be obtained around $20 maybe $30 since you may have to buy a $10.oo DAC/amp dongle to achieve so, with a smartphone as music source... That makes a $6000 headphones or this combo at $10,000 (sans DAC) quite amusing or horrifying.

One more proof that the emperor had no clothes... A poor showing by HifiMan.

Thanks Amirm! For this review and others. Your contributions to Hi-Fi are most welcome. I believe that I speak for many : ASR has brought the joy, back to music listening.

Happy holidays.

Peace.

 

[FINFET]

It seems like the price is the main factor in the headphone rating polls, with very little to do with how they perform.

It's all about expectations. Price is a crucial factor in rating basically anything, whether it's wine, hotels, food, or electronics... unless there's a specific rule to exclude price as a parameter of the product. The CHORD DAVE performs good enough in measurements, and frankly I quite like its form factor. However, the pricetag negates all and thus the poll looks like a disaster. Take the poll with a grain of salt, as I believe not many people have owned the Sus and can judge it fairly.

 

[AudioSceptic]

I'm listening to Susvara every day (at night) for 2 years now. I like what I'm hearing. I'm listening at very low level, amp output is 2.1V at 1kHz sine, DAC output is 5V to amp. Maybe this is why I like the sound and don't hear the distortion.

I like measurements at ASR and all the hard work that is Amir and friends doing here. Is Susvara measuring badly? Yes! It is reality and I have no problem with it and everybody else should be fine too. Bad measurements doesn't mean that you cant like Susvara and can't be happy with it.

This is all well and good, but these are $6k. What did you compare them with? I'm curious what led you to spending more on these than many spend on a whole system.