HIFIMAN Susvara Headphone Review

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

I ran a poll on this very topic. While the poll is not scientific, but it does give you a gleam. Based on this poll, this population is small and most who uses headphones, appears to use it begrudgingly and would prefer speakers if given the choice. Which leads me rather surprise that $6k headphone is even a thing with them and with 6 pages of comment nevertheless!

Perhaps those who begrudgingly uses headphones have no near term sight of speaker usage and so they just went ahead and drop $6k on a headphone. Or are so serious about this hobby even when they are forced to listen to headphones, it has to be the best. Either or, I hold no opinion (good nor bad) but just expressing my perpetual lack of understanding on $6k headphones.

Are ASR members headphone or loudspeaker users?

Schiit said it right: "So What Now, and Why So Much Headphone Stuff? In the old days, audiophiles went up the food chain from the table radio to the console stereo to separate speakers the size of refrigerators and monoblocks that would cook a cat. Today, nobody starts with a table radio...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I'm not judging anyone choices on spending 6k on headphones,.it's their money.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

I think there is a bigger chunk of the headphone market. Those who want hi-end but can’t afford $20k speaker setups, but can feel good about themselves with $5k headphone setups. Most enthusiasts I meet fall into that category.

Maybe, probably, most likely, like with everything in life.

 

[Blorg]

If nan7 used the same ear muffs as Susvara, the test results would be more similar. Unfortunately, nan7 used the 1266 ear muffs, which had poor measurement results.

A lot of the other measurements look very similar to the NAN-7, as well, I know in that other thread with the jagged response you pointed out that the Susvara measures like this too, and this is confirmation of that. Subjectively, I don't feel it's an audible problem though.

 

[Bow_Wazoo]

I'm amused.
The ASR bomb has just hit the neighbors...

 

[Robbo99999]

(Seems a bit unnecessary)



Although a smoother response would be better, why is "fine grass" a problem audibly? Asking because haven't heard such a response so legitimately don't know.

Ha, I do appreciate the humour though (no sarcasm on my part).

The "fine grass" is showing very abrupt seesawing of the frequency response ranging in the region of 2-3dB, I can imagine this changing the sound perception of things like instruments and voices that sit across that frequency range - you'd think it could almost be like putting them through a fine-grained filter where parts are regularly omitted (a bit like the audio equivalent of looking at the world through a screen mesh). In terms of real world observations, I own a Hifiman HE4XX which also exhibits a lot of these "fine grass" deviations, I measured it on my miniDSP EARS rig and it stands out as having this characteristic in contrast to all my other headphones I've measured on it (which are dynamic driver headphones that don't have this "fine grass" deviation), and even though I can get the tonality of the HE4XX spot on when using an Oratory EQ it's when I compare it in the same listening session to some of my EQ'd dynamic driver headphones (that have smooth frequency response) then I can resolve more detail in the dynamic driver headphones - so eventhough tonality is spot on with EQ'd HE4XX it lacks something in it's resolution which I put down to it's unique "fine grass" measurements vs my other headphones.

EDIT: following is my HE4XX measured on my miniDSP EARS rig to show the "fine grass" deviations I've been talking about (even this HE4XX has less "fine grass" than the Susvara). Note that the overall shape of the frequency response will look strange as it's measured on miniDSP EARS rig and not on the same GRAS rig that Amir & others use, so ignore the strangeness of the overall shape.

EDIT #2: and a smooth dynamic driver headphone K702 measured showing no "fine grass":

 

[Robbo99999]

I agree that the value proposition is beyond poor, especially when something like DCA E3 exists (calling 2K headphones - good value).

The poll isn't rating value or taking into account if people voting have heard these headphones - that's my main complaint.

And what do new members take away? Buy $21 IEM - it's better the Susvara? A bit extreme.
Of course just because something costs XXXX doesn't mean it's good - that is the other extreme.

Well, $21 IEM could well be better than this Susvara - nothing stopping it! Poll cannot take into account people listening to the headphone as most people haven't listened to the headphone, it's a poll based on the measurements and people's opinions of how they weigh up the product after seeing the measurements, hearing Amir's critique, and judging it on it's purchasing merit (ie value/price) - nothing wrong with all that, how it should be.

 

[Bow_Wazoo]

Audioquest has now recognized the problem and is diligently developing a cable to solve it.

 

[IAtaman]

I agree that the value proposition is beyond poor, especially when something like DCA E3 exists (calling 2K headphones - good value).

It might very well be a bad value proposition - most headphones above $1K are, in my opinion. Nonetheless, it is impossible to say whether it is better value than E3 without listening to them both.

There are 4 distortion graphs in the review, 3 of them showing large peaks. Given its price tag, any other voting outcome would be surprising

 

[IAtaman]

Audioquest has now recognized the problem and is diligently developing a cable to solve the problem.

View attachment 336798

Why is that GP graph represents a problem? What should be our take away from that?

 

[Talisman]

Arya poll majority voted as fine or great, and Susvara overwhelmingly as poor (Susvara has better FR, and distortion at 114dB matters only from an engineering point of view).

It seems like the price is the main factor in the headphone rating polls, with very little to do with how they perform.

I have no horse in this race - don't own or plan to own any Hifiman's, but poll bombing makes us all look silly and petty.

Thank Amir for the review! I just wish the polls were taken more seriously.

I struggle to understand this, it seems absolutely normal to me that a 6000 euro headphone receives a much more rigid evaluation regarding performance compared to a 300 euro one, because for 20 times the price one expects no less than perfection in every area , and I think it's legitimate, this clearly affects the perception of judgment.

 

[fredristair]

Amir's measurements are great although this seems kind of a timed hit job after Caldera - after a few years of increasing backlash and annoyance about ASR in the headphone community for oversimplifying things and gaslighting in reverse. It made sense after the gaslighting of audiophiles and all their crazy claims to take revenge somewhat, but this has gotten silly and if you think you've learned anything about Susvara, aside from the tuning, well good for you.

 

[TurtlePaul]

And what do new members take away? Buy $21 IEM - it's better the Susvara? A bit extreme.

Why is this extreme? Why couldn’t they be better or why aren’t they? What is this ‘better’ you refer to? Sound quality only?

It is a falacy that cheap can’t sound good. Certainly with headphones there is no reason expensive materials have to be used (relative to speakers which need a lot of woofer area for bass response).

Sure, price can get you build quality and looks, but that isn’t sound.

 

[raif71]

1) Subjectively, some say the Susvara are just not for them
2) Subjectively, some are so darn happy with the Susvara
3) Objectively, measurements of the Susvara doesn't seem that good from this thread

Are there other objective measurements of the Susvara from other parties?

 

[asrUser]

First Desperate sellers Seen on headfi ADS ...hahaha

Can't find them. Then again the headfi search is ass.

 

[fredristair]

This just goes into the idea that unfortunately there is just a lot more going on with headphone quality than these specific measurements.

 

[staticV3]

Are there other objective measurements of the Susvara from other parties?

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

HiFiMan Susvara Headphones Lab Report

Lab Report The Susvara is nothing if not idiosyncratic in the test lab. For a start, it joins the short but growing list of headphones to have come our way which are polarity inverting. As I've explained before, there's no possible excuse let alone reason for this – and it's not something we saw...

www.hifinews.com

SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - HiFiMan Susvara Headphones

www.soundstagenetwork.com

Headphone Test Lab test results manufacturers hifiman susvara

Headphone Test Lab test results manufacturers hifiman susvara

headphonetestlab.co.uk

Susvara

back to HIFIMAN back to measurements home published: Oct-29-2017 NO SMOOTHING is applied to the shown plots. Most measurement sites have some smoothing applied which ‘irons flat’ sharp peaks and ‘w…

diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com

Hifiman Susvara – In-Ear Fidelity

Sample 2

crinacle.com

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/hifiman-susvara.php#gsc.tab=0

https://forum.headphones.com/t/hifiman-susvara-over-ear-planar-headphone-official-thread/2293/387

 

[TurtlePaul]

Are there other objective measurements of the Susvara from other parties?

To what avail? Do you believe:

Amir is not providing genuine measurement? (e.g. the graphs are fakes)

There is unit to unit variation? (e.g. the unit being tested is broken)

There is something that isn’t being measured? (e.g. the mysterious audiophile “technicalities” scores)

Run to run variation or test rig mis-calibrations? (e.g. his AP555 is no good)

Target is wrong? (e.g. Susvara is actually a better frequency response than the Harmon target)

His interpretation of the graphs is wrong? (feel free to provide your own interpretation)

 

[lordhumungous]

Think of all the great gear you could buy for 6k ! I could load up multiple rooms with much better stuff.

 

[raif71]

To what avail? Do you believe:

Amir is not providing genuine measurement? (e.g. the graphs are fakes)

There is unit to unit variation? (e.g. the unit being tested is broken)

There is something that isn’t being measured? (e.g. the mysterious audiophile “technicalities” scores)

Run to run variation or test rig mis-calibrations? (e.g. his AP555 is no good)

Target is wrong? (e.g. Susvara is actually a better frequency response than the Harmon target)

His interpretation of the graphs is wrong? (feel free to provide your own interpretation)

haha...for data galors, 2nd opinion and yadda yadda yadda... just an innocent query mind you, not to do injustice to this site

 

[Soria Moria]

I'm amused.
The ASR bomb has just hit the neighbors...

And the very first post blames it on the AMP/DAC.