HIFIMAN Susvara Headphone Review

[Robbo99999]

Wow, quite a trainwreck for this headphone! It's probably one of the worst examples of "fine grass" high Q (sharp) deviations in the frequency response that I have seen in a headphone, which is often associated with planar headphone technology showing this "fine grass" deviations (although Dan Clark planars seem to avoid it) but this Susvara is praps the worst I've seen for those sharp & narrow deviations, which you can see above 1kHz, and even below that the frequency response is choppy down to 500Hz - I see all these sharp deviations as being a negative to sound quality:

Distortion measurements I didn't think were gonna be a problem considering that you don't normally listen to areas above 1kHz above 94dB, but was obviously a problem for Amir, so something going on there with the headphone you would think. Plenty of "low cost" headphones have better distortion above 1kHz than this Susvara, the Sennheiser HD560s for example is one of them, following one of my HD560s measured by Oratory, you can see distortion is low above 1kHz even at 114dB:


So this Hifiman Susvara headphone should definitely be one to miss, especially considering it's ridiculous $6000 price - I love it when ridiculously priced products get proven to be rubbish and get a pounding!

 

[Sokel]

It's all about expectations. Price is a crucial factor in rating basically anything, whether it's wine, hotels, food, or electronics...

Sometimes price is about other factors too.like belonging in an exclusive group or having an out of ordinary experience.

As you said about hotels,I once booked to a hotel like no other,a whole 100 yo abandoned village,remodeled on top of a dream island's mountain with a breathtaking view from each of the houses used as rooms.
BUT the"old" smell was there and not ideal despite the medically clean conditions,room service was slow due to distances,etc.

But all the above was excusable something not apparent to this pair.
It won't put you into an exclusive group,it would need another country of origin to do this.
And there's nothing sticking out as extraordinary to differentiate it.
Sadly.

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

Arya poll majority voted as fine or great, and Susvara overwhelmingly as poor (Susvara has better FR, and distortion at 114dB matters only from an engineering point of view).

It seems like the price is the main factor in the headphone rating polls, with very little to do with how they perform.

I have no horse in this race - don't own or plan to own any Hifiman's, but poll bombing makes us all look silly and petty.

Thank Amir for the review! I just wish the polls were taken more seriously.

That is the less charming part around here.
A (small?) portion of members are somewhat obsessed with price/performance ratio or the highest SINAD along with other metrics. Not only that some of them are also heavy on criticizing products and making fun of audiophiles despite knowing barely anything technical by themselves besides the explanation of the reviewer here (usually Amir), or had actually experienced the products themselves. They indirectly cause a bad rep for ASR as an open-minded platform and I have little respect for those people.

I don't even like Hifiman anymore and it's likely that I will never purchase their flagship products, but yet being a more science-based audio guy, I still have a HARD time believing if people will enjoy the HE400/HE400SE as much as the Susvara, let alone preferring the HE400SE over it.

 

[Mathijs Kok]

But there is absolutely no objective basis to claim these headphones would sound bad.

So no matter what is measured, who measures it, and what the measurements are.... They would never show that something sounds bad?
It makes one wonder what you are doing in a forum like this. The other people come because we believe amirm does us a favor by providing hard data AND an impression.

 

[staticV3]

So no matter what is measured, who measures it, and what the measurements are.... They would never show that something sounds bad?

Sure they would. They don't here.

 

[Robbo99999]

I am also very glad to see audiophile claims that sound excellence could only be achieved by spending a lot of money in audio gear is being proven wrong time and again. But allow me to remind you that this sentence marks the end of the objective review, and rest of it is all subjective. Do not confuse headphone measurements with DAC measurements please, in headphone measurements there are no objective conclusions. Amir might not like the headphone. It does not mean it does not sound good or you or someone else would not like it. Curb your enthusiasm, please.

(Seems a bit unnecessary)

 

[renaudrenaud]

Actually it is (except for the conclusion).

Below 200Hz we have a different target (mine vs Harman OE)
The dip at 2kHz is -7.5dB and because my measurement lacks a pinna it is -10dB in mine.
The 6kHz dip in my plots is caused by the lack of an ear canal.
The overall findings are the same.

As for the distortion at 114dB. No one ever listens to 114dB peaks at 1kHz and 5kHz. 114dB SPL in the bass is fine and that's where the bulk of the energy in music is.
IMO one should look at 114dB distortion plots only up to 300Hz or so.
When low bass notes are 120dB SPL this is perceived at about 90Phon and some short peaks around 1kHz could reach around 105dB or so.
I measured an increase in distortion too at 4kHz which is caused by a resonance. Our hearing resonates too at that frequency so a resonance there is not very problematic.
I did listen at 'comfortable levels' though and did not hear any distortion. This is not surprising as Amir wrote:
If you don't exceed medium loud levels distortion would not impact you.
My earlobes did not reach shake levels and did not reach medium loud levels (which I call comfortable loud).

You need a hefty amp because at 92dB/V (I measured the same) you will need 27V (12W) in 60ohm which is exactly what the Benchmark AHB2 delivers.

The only thing we differ on is the sound quality:

A short sound description would be: VERY realistic sounding, effortless. Very clear sounding with a soft yet not subdued treble. I would perhaps say the treble may be very slightly (and tastefully) elevated.
The sound is very dynamic and has an almost? unparalleled realism to it.
Bass is punchy and tight and well extended. Mids sound ‘laid back’ yet very real and are forward enough with a proper amount of clarity.
For well made recordings it sounds just right. For pop music it may be lacking slightly in body as this type of music often asks for slightly elevated bass response.

This isn't Harman tuning though. I also do not include the price in the sound evaluation nor what amp is needed.
I quite liked it but won't own it because of the price. I could perfectly drive it to decent levels with my headphone amp, huge amounts of power are only needed when you want to play it impressively loud.

Amir said:
the tonality was "OK" but nothing exciting for me
This does not surprise me as I wrote:
For pop music it may be lacking slightly in body as this type of music often asks for slightly elevated bass response.

So the reviews are not contradicting and show the same thing.
Bass light and at higher SPL it starts to distort at 4kHz.

I quite liked it but it is no secret that I do not seem to prefer Harman bass levels and do not listen at high levels other than briefly during testing to check how it holds up.

When one wants Harman tuning, low distortion and high SPL and not having to fork out a lot of money a € 25.- IEM will do and you can drive it from a phone.

Thanks for your patience and explanations. I consider your point of view most of the time very informative for me because I don't listen very loud (take care of my ears) and not exactly in par to Harman curve for my taste.

 

[Robbo99999]

@amirm have you ever considered producing a distortion graph that follows some average music loudness curve? I listen at 80db @ 1khz, the only frequencies where your distortion plots are relevant for my actual listening conditions is in the bass (where coincidentally Susvara does better than Expanse @114db).

Of course it is very informative to measure what happens when drivers are pushed to their limits. However I seem to remember you found both the Abyss1266 and HEDDphone quite good sounding despite atrocious 114db treble distortion.

You showed some of these energy spectra of real music in your "music: how loud is loud?" Video, which was very informative to me. Maybe something like a distortion plot for real listening spls would help relate your distortion measurements to subjective evaluations!

I agree with this kind of angle of thought, but specifically in relation to Susvara he did hear distortion issues above 1kHz when he mentioned "static" (or maybe that was instead some kind of psychoacoustic effect of the severely jagged frequency response??), but I agree with your angle of thought which is logical.

 

[migo77]

This is all well and good, but these are $6k. What did you compare them with? I'm curious what led you to spending more on these than many spend on a whole system.

I've compared to HFM Arya v2 and HFM HEkSE. I like the music presentation of Susvara it is matter of taste. I'm not big fun of Harman target curve, there is too much bass for my ears. My ears are rather sensitive or maybe I've some kind of disorder. I agree that official price is very high, but I've paid much less for it.

 

[Bow_Wazoo]

Holy mother of distortion...

 

[Chagall]

Wow, quite a trainwreck for this headphone!

(Seems a bit unnecessary)

It's probably one of the worst examples of "fine grass" high Q (sharp) deviations in the frequency response that I have seen in a headphone, which is often associated with planar headphone technology showing this "fine grass" deviations (although Dan Clark planars seem to avoid it) but this Susvara is praps the worst I've seen for those sharp & narrow deviations, which you can see above 1kHz, and even below that the frequency response is choppy down to 500Hz - I see all these sharp deviations as being a negative to sound quality:

Although a smoother response would be better, why is "fine grass" a problem audibly? Asking because haven't heard such a response so legitimately don't know.

 

[AudioSceptic]

I'm quite a bit puzzled when you characterize headphone distortion sounding like static. I take static to mean white noise, but I guess you mean something else?

I also find that odd. I *think* Amir's describing HF crackling breakup distortion.

 

[daniboun]

FYI, I plan to update my amplifier measurements of AHB2 now that I have this unit. So stand by for that.

Let us know when ))

 

[Robbo99999]

Arya poll majority voted as fine or great, and Susvara overwhelmingly as poor (Susvara has better FR, and distortion at 114dB matters only from an engineering point of view).

It seems like the price is the main factor in the headphone rating polls, with very little to do with how they perform.

I have no horse in this race - don't own or plan to own any Hifiman's, but poll bombing makes us all look silly and petty.

Thank Amir for the review! I just wish the polls were taken more seriously.

I think it's ok to take price into account when voting in the poll. It would be exceedingly silly to buy these for $6000 so the poll reflects that, and especially within the context of the measurements and review.

 

[Jimbob54]

I also find that odd. I *think* Amir's describing HF crackling breakup distortion.

That's how I took it. Static as in the crackling noise of a baloon rubbed on a sweatshirt more than radio static.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Wow, quite a trainwreck for this headphone! It's probably one of the worst examples of "fine grass" high Q (sharp) deviations in the frequency response that I have seen in a headphone, which is often associated with planar headphone technology showing this "fine grass" deviations (although Dan Clark planars seem to avoid it) but this Susvara is praps the worst I've seen for those sharp & narrow deviations, which you can see above 1kHz, and even below that the frequency response is choppy down to 500Hz - I see all these sharp deviations as being a negative to sound quality:

Distortion measurements I didn't think were gonna be a problem considering that you don't normally listen to areas above 1kHz above 94dB, but was obviously a problem for Amir, so something going on there with the headphone you would think. Plenty of "low cost" headphones have better distortion above 1kHz than this Susvara, the Sennheiser HD560s for example is one of them, following one of my HD560s measured by Oratory, you can see distortion is low above 1kHz even at 114dB:
View attachment 336775

So this Hifiman Susvara headphone should definitely be one to miss, especially considering it's ridiculous $6000 price - I love it when ridiculously priced products get proven to be rubbish and get a pounding!

So do I, even though I feel it's a guilty pleasure.

 

[xaviescacs]

 

[CleanSound]

Let me help you.
Consider two options
- space limitations
- external noise or not wanting to make all your house to listen your music

I hope that it will broad your view.

I ran a poll on this very topic. While the poll is not scientific, but it does give you a gleam. Based on this poll, this population is small and most who uses headphones, appears to use it begrudgingly and would prefer speakers if given the choice. Which leads me rather surprise that $6k headphone is even a thing with them and with 6 pages of comment nevertheless!

Perhaps those who begrudgingly uses headphones have no near term sight of speaker usage and so they just went ahead and drop $6k on a headphone. Or are so serious about this hobby even when they are forced to listen to headphones, it has to be the best. Either or, I hold no opinion (good nor bad) but just expressing my perpetual lack of understanding on $6k headphones.

Are ASR members headphone or loudspeaker users?

Schiit said it right: "So What Now, and Why So Much Headphone Stuff? In the old days, audiophiles went up the food chain from the table radio to the console stereo to separate speakers the size of refrigerators and monoblocks that would cook a cat. Today, nobody starts with a table radio...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Palladium]

That is the less charming part around here.
A (small?) portion of members are somewhat obsessed with price/performance ratio or the highest SINAD along with other metrics. Not only that some of them are also heavy on criticizing products and making fun of audiophiles despite knowing barely anything technical by themselves besides the explanation of the reviewer here (usually Amir), or had actually experienced the products themselves. They indirectly cause a bad rep for ASR as an open-minded platform and I have little respect for those people.

I don't even like Hifiman anymore and it's likely that I will never purchase their flagship products, but yet being a more science-based audio guy, I still have a HARD time believing if people will enjoy the HE400/HE400SE as much as the Susvara, let alone preferring the HE400SE over it.

Sure, go on apologizing for a $6000 kit made clearly for charity with the very original "you never heard it" argument in an industry trying to drown us in every bit of nonsensical drivel for a profit.

 

[Chagall]

I think it's ok to take price into account when voting in the poll. It would be exceedingly silly to buy these for $6000 so the poll reflects that, and especially within the context of the measurements and review.

I agree that the value proposition is beyond poor, especially when something like DCA E3 exists (calling 2K headphones - good value).

The poll isn't rating value or taking into account if people voting have heard these headphones - that's my main complaint.

And what do new members take away? Buy $21 IEM - it's better the Susvara? A bit extreme.
Of course just because something costs XXXX doesn't mean it's good - that is the other extreme.