Has anyone tested it since? There have been several firmware upgrades since the review. I noticed some power limiting on my NR7100 if the speakers are set to 4 ohm. If set to 6 ohm and above I have not noticed any such issues.
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Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Setting it to 4 ohm mode is anti productive. It's actually a protection setting rather than a high power setting.
Jon from ripewave audio tested this. Even if you have 4 ohm nominal speakers, set it on 8 ohm mode on the receiver.
Yeah, that's what I had found as well. My speakers are 6 ohm rated (old Wharfedale 9.6's and 9.cm,sr's) but are likely a 4 ohm load. Much less headroom when set to 4ohm in the AVR.
If you want a second opinion, the clone Pioneer 505 isn't any better:
Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Pioneer VSX-LX505 ELITE 9.2 Channel AV Receiver. It was kindly drop shipped to me by a member and is a refurbished unit. Normal cost is US $1699. As you see, the front panel is the same old interface from decade+ back. The on-screen menus...
www.audiosciencereview.com
This kind of behaviour has been observed by others in this market segment (Yamaha) - and is nothing new!
Your preference for the Denon, makes it no less of a direct competitor - the two were on my short list, and Dirac vs Audyssey was my deciding factor - I wanted to try Dirac, after having been unhappy with the Audyssey performance for a decade...
Amp is not an issue for me, as either one would have trouble with my 1.6ohm minimum impedance main speakers - so I use external amps... and the internal amps handle the surrounds and heights perfectly.
No I have not seen any in depth tests like Amir's
Another observation, I have seen no reports in threads on multiple audio / Home Theatre sites, of the Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer family "limiting" in actual use...
So yes, it is an issue in bench tests, but this is an artificial stress test environment, in actual use, no one has reported it
The difference being the Yamahas were a clear limit approach w/automated shutdown to protect equipment (consumer is aware). The way Onkyo/Pioneer has applied it is much more "stealth" where the consumer is not aware (and that is the egregious part that Amir is getting at). Only a full shutdown and powering on of the AVR overcomes the issue. There was enough anecdotal evidence from AVSforum and here for me to make the easy decision to not have to deal with "stealth protection".
Yeah, all I can say is that it's obvious at the 4ohm setting when pushed but at the 6ohm and up setting I hardly notice a difference from my old separates. I really picked it up to just simplify the setup and my old amps had been having issues (went through multiple repairs, etc), the flexibility of Dirac helps more than any power I may have lost IMO.
At the 4 ohm setting for the AVR, you are manually putting the AVR into the limited mode...
On the bench, when it hits it limit, it basically turns on the limited mode.
With my DRX 3.4 - the amps did not handle my 1.6ohm speakers well at all - sound quality was distinctly middling - using external amps resolved the issue immediately.
The first two dirac tiers in the Onkyo / Integra / Pioneer family (RZ50 / NR7100) have limited current power supplies, and audible effects can be heard if you are using low impedance speakers (mine are rated 4ohm but have two dips at one down to 3 ohm and another down to 1.6ohm - which makes them a bit of a torture test for amps)
Although I have not seen an RZ70 tested, its power supply seems to be of the same order of magnitude as my previous Integra DTR70.4 - which handled the speakers with aplomb.
If you want an AVR from this family that can provide the goods with difficult speakers the RZ70 siblings are where you need to look.
Same thing for the Denon's - neither the X3800 nor the X4800 have high current power supplies, and would almost certainly "misbehave" audibly with such difficult loads... The X6800 would probably be fine, and the AV1 almost certainly would be fine.
But all of this is pretty much irrelevant if your speakers are nominally rated at 6ohm and/or up... with standard 8ohm speakers, current won't be a constraint, and the amps from even the most basic NR7100 models would probably be ample. (My experience, with my setup, in my room, is that with 86db/wm sensitivity speakers, my average listening levels require no more than 4W, and peaks when listening to music or action movies, never go past 16W.... (I tend to listen at no more than 75db average at the MLP, probably 95db peak - which seems to be the case for most people...)
Some of old amps have meters and even when I was absolutely cranking the LCR were only going into the 20w range (I had old Carver TFM 35CB's on the LCR), normal use generally less than 5w. These were crossed over at 80hz of course though - playing full range would certainly need more power.
With under 3 ohm load like that can see needing a more powerful amp - I believe mine only dip to around 3.8 but average quite a bit higher and are 89db.
Considering the NR7100 was only $699 and haven't really seen any issues even played at reference or near it coming from thousands of dollars of (old) equipment I'd consider it a win. I did slap a couple of small fans on there just to make sure it stays cool.
The 3.4 I have is the Integra branded version of the NR7100 - and it stays consistently cool under all conditions. I was very concerned about heat, having had two previous AVR's from Onkyo/Integra fail over the years due to heat... but these babies run really really cool - I have it placed in an open space, but have not fitted additional fans... as I feel it doesn't need them (the old Integra DTR70.4, was hot enough on top to be unable to leave your hand there - seriously HOT..)
Yeah, I'm not too worried about the amp portion but more of the HDMI board and the chips without heatsinks - especially after all the HDMI issues of the older models. Just having some fans on there for extra peace of mind for long term use.
The current model actually has fans on the HDMI / DSP Board...
It's engineered the way its predecessors should have been in the first place! (heatsinks and fans on the hot bits... and the hot bits are the digital processing chips, not the power amp!)
Yeah, I noticed the design had changed and there are more heatsinks around. Having two 500rpm fans running doesn't bother me though.
I've also been doing this with my electronics for years - an old Panasonic AVR that has very common issues with the mosfets burning out lasted about 20 years in the family room with nearly constant use without having issues and then I repaired it when it did have issues earlier this year and it's been running fine - I attribute that to having had some fans attached to it - though it could have just been luck
.I still have the old DTR 70.4 - which was a great sounding AVR, I have been trying to get a replacement DSP board for it, without much success. I may need to try the "heatgun reflow" method....Yeah, I noticed the design had changed and there are more heatsinks around. Having two 500rpm fans running doesn't bother me though.
I've also been doing this with my electronics for years - an old Panasonic AVR that has very common issues with the mosfets burning out lasted about 20 years in the family room with nearly constant use without having issues and then I repaired it when it did have issues earlier this year and it's been running fine - I attribute that to having had some fans attached to it - though it could have just been luck
It just seems like a huge waste, to drop this thing to landfill!!!
I did experiment with fans about 10 years ago, but found when I analysed the output signal, that when the fans on top of the AVR were active, there was a measurable (but not obviously audible...) addition of noise... probably via RF-EMI directly to the DSP chips and HDMI chips, which were the things that needed the cooling! - And as audio quality is paramount - the fans were then removed - and I moved the AVR into a fully open space - as specified by Onkyo.... probably should have kept the fans there...
Hi! Greetings from Spain!
Im considering this RZ50 or the RZ70 or the Arcam AV40 for 2K€
I have currently a NAD758 (worst avr reviewed here I think lol).
I have a rotel 1095 for the mains, so powersupply wont be a problem.
Taking that in consideration, which one would be better guys?
Saw the arcam av40 review and was a dissapointment.
The rz50 was bad only at powersupply at 4ohm right?
The rz70 hasnt been reviewed yet.
Regards!
Im considering this RZ50 or the RZ70 or the Arcam AV40 for 2K€
I have currently a NAD758 (worst avr reviewed here I think lol).
I have a rotel 1095 for the mains, so powersupply wont be a problem.
Taking that in consideration, which one would be better guys?
Saw the arcam av40 review and was a dissapointment.
The rz50 was bad only at powersupply at 4ohm right?
The rz70 hasnt been reviewed yet.
Regards!
SynthesisCinema
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Don´t know how happy the D&M products would be with lower than 4ohm loads, but the power supply in the X6800 isn´t much different to X4800. Even sharing very similar size block capacitors.
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Other than the "L" and "R" channels, my "lowly" 3800 powers all other channels including the 4 ohm center channel of my Martin Logan SLM X3.
I have experienced no "4 ohm shenanigans", even at high volume!
Areed 100%. It depends more on the user's speaker specs, seating diatance and listening habits such as required spl from the mmp, and much less on the so called high current claims that means little unless defined. Some will say it means the amp can double down, but that's just another not very useful claim.
