Absolute crap, yes!
And this is part of my european audiophile education and culture...
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Roksan Attessa Streaming Amplifier Review
- Thread starter amirm
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And this is part of my european audiophile education and culture...
Please define crap with values and preferably compare it to the SOTA at the time.
ta240
Major Contributor
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Meaningless retorts are the best. How do you argue with nonsense?
I saw a comedian one time tell a story about a guy yelling at him in traffic to move when he had nowhere to go because... traffic. So, according to his story, he yelled back at the guy "Give me my jacket back! I didn't give it to you, I just loaned it to you! You are completely ruining it! Give it back!"
Well, unlike WhatHifi many magazines back then made measurements, albeit not as sophisticated as these days. And if you check some measurements for "vintage" gear, they measure competently... and certainly this Roksan doesn't set a high bar. I "borrowed" a Sansui integrated amp from my Dad when I was a student, and it was pretty amazing. Twice I tried to upgrade, twice the upgrade failed. It took a used Luxman t make me feel that maybe I was doing better, but emancipation of finally having my own was probably a huge factor. That said that Sansui must've weighted 50lbs and wasn't the friendliest to move with (weight + some sharp edges) at a time when I moved a lot... :-D
Do you remember the claims of 0,0000000001% thd so fashionable in the 70s in the early days of massive negative feedback and how the Scott, Sony, Pioneer amps sounded paired with JBL, Polk and similar boom boxes?
Sorry but these big brands loved mass production and entry level too much to keep a high standard and reputation.
This is why small players as Roksan became so popular between freakies like my dad and me... With the help of small shops and dealers, and more or less underground specialized reviewers...
If someone needs a streaming amplifier and is ok with this price tag, in US at least, I'd think saving some more money and buying a NAD M33 would be a better choice, class D, Dirac and it looks nice too.
May I suggest that instead of using obscenely exaggerated numbers you give real numbers that shows the American and Japanese audio equipment on the market at the time to be much worse than what the SOTA was at the time.Do you remember the claims of 0,0000000001% thd so fashionable in the 70s in the early days of massive negative feedback and how the Scott, Sony, Pioneer amps sounded paired with JBL, Polk and similar boom boxes?
If you don’t have any data, your words are baseless. Various Hi-Fi magazines had been testing equipment during the 70s. Data exists.
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I am 64 and i remember those claims of 0.000000...%thd by the "state of the art" designers of the world leaders of the industry the 70s, and how in response and justified by the poor subjective performance of these amps, other new underground designers started to criticize the abuse of negative feedback as cure all solution and unique path to audio nirvana... Remember guys like Matti Ottala (Electrocompaniet) and his theory about transient distortion? That esoteric stuff is what audiophiles loved to hear and their expectations (attessa) are the key success factors of brands like Roksan and so many others successful free riders of this business.
Not to mention Audio Note and other Zen gurús...
It looks like your definition of crap is not based on objective data but on your memories. If that is the case I’m afraid I cannot comment further as it can only be my words against yours. The reason ASR exists is to stop that happening.
I am just using these memories to try explain to younger guys how It is possible that a brand with so bad performance products can have a strong enough reputation to market and sell them at such a high price point. An the reason is merely an educational and cultural one: we european audiophiles have been taught since our childhood that american and japanese Big names produce audio crap, because mass market IS crap market.
Something of course hard to understand for people from the Sinad generation that frown when new riders like Topping make some cautious intent to give an emotional and esoteric touch to some of their products: obviously to please old fashioned freakies like me...
Interesting, as over here we've 'been taught' that a lot of european names produce overpriced crap, and before most of the manufacturing was moved to China it was because of the 'hand-built' (variable)- nature. It's more a romantic motion than a sign of tight manufacturing tolerances. And of course europeans crapped on 'mass produced' items from Japan, as they did not have the manufacturing capabilities to match.
Each side pisses on the other. Human nature. Two sides of same coin. We can't do what they do so we spread the word that our way is the right way.
Each side pisses on the other. Human nature. Two sides of same coin. We can't do what they do so we spread the word that our way is the right way.
I cant recall recall Sansui ever being a mass brand. Among others. People would look at you blank faced.
dougi
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I see Musical Fidelity have just re-released the A1 A class amp. Still fantastic looking kit.I guess that in those days Class A was so praised by purists (or puritans...) that running hot became a must for audiophile gear, even if biased as the rest of the A/B crowd...
AndreaT
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Ugly as a late 90’s integrated, poor performance, plenty of competition with better sinad and looks. The review says stay away and look elswhere. Thank you Amir!
Galliardist
Major Contributor
When it comes to those low distortion amps, we can see at least some of the reviews and commentary of the time online again now. The description of those amps you are complaining about is essentially summed up in the word "boring".
Fast forward to today, and that sums up the response of modern reviewers to at least some of the equipment that is well reviewed and liked on this forum today. It seems as well that some of those low distortion amps from the 1970's are now "classic collectors' items that sound far better than that boring, cheap rubbish new class D crap".
I wonder what's really changed?
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
Your 'memory' of the 70s and the reality of claimed THD numbers for HiFi amplifiers at the time are completely different.
Galliardist
Major Contributor
I was in the UK when the original came out, and remember a demonstration at a hifi show for two things: the only time I ever heard a system at a show actually hard clipping (the legend states that it could drive difficult loads...) and a comment from someone in the room that it will sell extremely well in Australia because "it's the only amp that doubles as a barbie".
Galliardist
Major Contributor
True: when did they reach 0.00x%, around 1979? But amps that had 0.05% measured in reviews were the low distortion amps of the early 1970s, and the ones that got it in the neck from some of the early subjectivists. The clamour mounted later, when that second 0 appeared.
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