one of the main differences between the X3 and X4 is the power amps and the power supply - more power and more current - with more robust cooling etc... - All of which is redundant if you are using them only for the surround/height channels. (which is how I and many others have their AVR's set up!)
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Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review
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Denon didn’t have refurbished 4800s in stock when I tried buying from them, but they directed my to Safe and Sound that had open box units for $1879, with 3 year warranty. i couldn’t be happier
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WanderingSoul
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Hi, I am looking to expand my setup. I currently have a Rotel rc1590 preamp and a Rotel rb1582mk2 which I want to pair with either the x3800h or x4800h, so that the Rotel handles the front and the denon the rest.
In terms of speakers I have BW 702 s2 and I am thinking of getting the htm71 s3 and 705 s3 to get to a 5 channel setup.
There's currently a 900€ difference between the 3 and 4800h. Given the above setup, would it be worth it to get the 4800h or would you advise against it?
In terms of speakers I have BW 702 s2 and I am thinking of getting the htm71 s3 and 705 s3 to get to a 5 channel setup.
There's currently a 900€ difference between the 3 and 4800h. Given the above setup, would it be worth it to get the 4800h or would you advise against it?
WanderingSoul
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Really?
And what kind of receiver would be more suited for that setup?
Almost all speakers have fluctuating impedance. BW specified the nominal impedance as 8 ohms. I would expect the 4800 will not have any problems with your two surrounds, especially if the front channels are on separate amps. My 4800 is only driving two surround speakers and it sounds great. Never felt like I need more power for the surround speakers, even with 1,000 watts on each of the front speaker.
WanderingSoul
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The front speakers are actually very close to my sofa. About 2 m. I woulr use the denon for mainly HT and gaming at decent not deafening levels.
Also, expecting that you set up the surround speakers as small with a crossover at 100hz or so, I cannot imagine the Denons not having enough power on just two speakers
If the extra few hundred dollars are not a problem for you, get the 4800. It has better prepro and a beefier power supply. Frankly, if you get a refurbished one, they are a bargain. Just a few years ago the processing and subsequent benefit you get from Dirac was not possible unless you ran the processing on a PC. You could have spent 10,000 on a processor and it would not have been as good as a 4800.
Sorry, you were too quick for me to edit, I was going to add the following:
- Reviewers, including Stereophile would typically suggest 4 ohm rated amps for the likes of the B&W 702 S2, based on the impedance dips and phase angles combination. In my opinion, they should always qualify such recommendations with the actual use conditions. (https://www.stereophile.com/content/bowers-wilkins-702-s2-loudspeaker-measurements). People like JA should keep mind more often, the question of whether an amp rated 350 W 8 ohms, 174 W 4 ohms, 87 W 2 ohms is better or worse than one that is rated 50 W 8 ohms, 100 W 4 ohms, 150 W 2 ohms. For me, the choice is easy, I would take the 350 W 8 ohm amp unless I need the amp to drive 2 ohm nominal speakers.
For example, if the OP, in this case plan on using those speakers for listening to reference level, sitting from 4 meters, then yes, the Denon AVRs are not designed for such applications. Then again, if he listens that loud, and sit from 4 meters, then JA of Stereophile should not just say 4 ohm rated amps recommended without saying anything about 4 ohm rated for what output level. By calculation, he probably would, or should suggest 4 ohm rated for 800 WPC, if sitting from 4 meters and expect up to reference spl.
By not including sufficient caveat, qualifying statements, it might lead to people like Pogo who might get fixated on generalized remarks based on things like "EPDR", and damping factor (that he is still fixated on) that in many cases/applications won't need to be a concern for the users.
In that case you will be fine with the 3800, the 4800 is obviously better based on features, and has a little stronger power supply.
You can play with an online calculator such as the following:
For sensitivity, the 702 S2 specs say 90 dB/2.83V/1m, but to be super conservative, you can enter 86 dB to allow for the 3.1 ohm minimum impedance dip, because such calculators typically based their calculations on 8 ohm load impedance.
pogo
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The 705 S3 dips below 3ohms in the range of approx. 100-150Hz (see previous provided link)!
Here the answer from Denon for another candidate:
Dear Mr. xxx,
thank you very much for contacting us.
As technical data, we recommend the connection of loudspeakers with an impedance of 6 to 16 ohms, for some models like the Avr-X4800H it is 4 to 16 ohms. Any type of loudspeaker with this nominal impedance can be operated without hesitation.
The nominal impedance is the specification of the resistance at dormant state. During operation and with increasing volume, the actual impedance can deviate greatly from the nominal impedance. In addition, the impedance is frequency dependent. The impedance can then assume values significantly below the nominal impedance to below 1 Ohm. With the variety of models offered and the most diverse properties, we can therefore not make a generally binding recommendation. Since a low impedance means an increased power output and thus a higher heating of the amplifier, a critical operating condition can be reached, which could mean a defect in the amplifier or the loudspeakers.
Therefore, make sure that the minimum impedance (in the entire frequency spectrum) should generally not fall below a value of 3.2 ohms.
With current AV receivers, you can change the impedance of the connected speakers with the help of a key combination described in the operating instructions. If you select 4 Ohm here the amplifier limits the available power to prevent overloads.
So in your case, the Nubert nuLine 34 speakers are not recommended.
With best regards
Your Product Support Team
Translated from German
Here the answer from Denon for another candidate:
Dear Mr. xxx,
thank you very much for contacting us.
As technical data, we recommend the connection of loudspeakers with an impedance of 6 to 16 ohms, for some models like the Avr-X4800H it is 4 to 16 ohms. Any type of loudspeaker with this nominal impedance can be operated without hesitation.
The nominal impedance is the specification of the resistance at dormant state. During operation and with increasing volume, the actual impedance can deviate greatly from the nominal impedance. In addition, the impedance is frequency dependent. The impedance can then assume values significantly below the nominal impedance to below 1 Ohm. With the variety of models offered and the most diverse properties, we can therefore not make a generally binding recommendation. Since a low impedance means an increased power output and thus a higher heating of the amplifier, a critical operating condition can be reached, which could mean a defect in the amplifier or the loudspeakers.
Therefore, make sure that the minimum impedance (in the entire frequency spectrum) should generally not fall below a value of 3.2 ohms.
With current AV receivers, you can change the impedance of the connected speakers with the help of a key combination described in the operating instructions. If you select 4 Ohm here the amplifier limits the available power to prevent overloads.
So in your case, the Nubert nuLine 34 speakers are not recommended.
With best regards
Your Product Support Team
Translated from German
pogo
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NAD T778
rvsixer
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That's great you got your deal. Denon had 4800's back in stock the last day of the 20% off sale, and the $1799 deal has been available for about a month now. Just putting that out there for anyone wanting one of these for $1799 and free shipping.
Nothing new there, and you seem to be contadicting yourself. May be you don't understand much about electrical theories, and technical specs. That's of course fine, as long as you include links to information that relates to your claims, as you have just done, this time. Thank you.
Who said they were Not faultless??
It’s unimaginable that the 4800 would struggle driving 2 surround speakers in any real world setting
The main concern it that X3800, as I understand it, only do 1,6 volt output. I don't know if it can drive my power amplifiers (+26dB) fully.
If you look at AmirM's review - although the wording is "clips" it maintain SINAD above 75db at 2V+
The tech review is not clear as to how much more V it can put out beyond that while maintaining acceptable SINAD (ie at what point does it truly "clip" and SINAD drop off dramatically - at 75db the SINAD is still within the acceptable audibility range!)
www.audiosciencereview.com
What amp are you using?
The tech review is not clear as to how much more V it can put out beyond that while maintaining acceptable SINAD (ie at what point does it truly "clip" and SINAD drop off dramatically - at 75db the SINAD is still within the acceptable audibility range!)
Denon AVR-X3800H Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon AVR-X3800H 9.4 Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver. It was kindly drop shipped to me by a member and costs US $1,699. Not much to say about the look of the unit as it is pretty much similar/same as last generations. Here is the back panel...
www.audiosciencereview.com
What amp are you using?
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