Neutrik NA2F-D0B-TX XLR to RCA Adapter Review

[thecheapseats]

It looks to me like a standard -10 dBv line level device. I do not see a case where it could be useful plugging a microphone in this.

maybe it's an easily deceptive interpretation (on first glance) when that [EDIT: xlr-m xlr-f ] input is staring you in the face and an rca at the ass-end, and without prior knowledge of a use-case which you outlined above... "if' that's even (in fact) what was intended by neutrik... wtf really knows? - not me at this point..

 

[LTig]

I think we all, who have been in audio for some time, now this. It is, however, possible to make a link transformer with low distortion at 50Hz/2V but the thing is huge. Just according to laws of physics, as you have properly stated. The core is then BIG and the thing is heavy - like 1-2 kg!! I had one here for a test, it had quite low distortion at 50Hz/2V - but - the size and weight!

1-2 kg! Makes me wondering about the distortion of the audio transformer at the input of my K&H O300D with a sensitivity of +6 dBu... they are certainly not that big.

 

[MacClintock]

The use for this device is decouple the two sides, so solving ground loop kind of problems, a XLR-RCA cable will not do that.

Ok got it. I wonder how common ground loops are though, because in decades of hifi, I never had one.

 

[Fidji]

Ok got it. I wonder how common ground loops are though, because in decades of hifi, I never had one.

Once you get into AV/HT type of setup and you have unbalanced and balanced gear combined, it starts to be a lottery.
I also have lived pretty much ground loop-free life, until I connected projector, Apple TV, 2 dics players, Video Processor and 22 channels of amplification

SInce then - all that is possible to be optical is optical, and everything is meanwhile balanced.

 

[solderdude]

These devices are not for AV/HT setups but rather 'quick and dirty problem solvers' but not hifi ones.
An onsite sound engineer that has to do something quickly may have such devices somewhere in a box with him.

Ground loops are not that uncommon certainly not when dealing with sound reinforcement.
Such a device could quickly solve a weird hum problem, interface issues etc, does not require power and is wide enough in BW for mic or instrument signals.
Sure there are plenty of bigger DI boxes, active and passive that are much better suited even for hifi usage.

It should not be viewed as a hifi-device, also not when one bought one thinking it might be useful for that.
Amir's measurements have clearly shown it won't work for that and is intended for lower level signals and is bandwidth limited.
The lower level a signal is the more hum can become an issue, especially when having to work with unbalanced (RCA or 3.5mm stereo) input signals.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

I happen to like this device:
- if you play electric guitar, and you are plagued by hum, then this device can be the answer. connect it to the guitar output, and then balanced cabling to home recording sound card.
- the 70mv or so is what a guitar pumps out, and if it distorts after that, so what ?
- should work with piezo violin pickup too.
- At this price, it will be a god sent to cash strapped home recording artists (is there another kind?!).
Don't use it for Hifi, don't shove a few volts into it.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Once you get into AV/HT type of setup and you have unbalanced and balanced gear combined, it starts to be a lottery.
I also have lived pretty much ground loop-free life, until I connected projector, Apple TV, 2 dics players, Video Processor and 22 channels of amplification

SInce then - all that is possible to be optical is optical, and everything is meanwhile balanced.

Ground loop does not always produce a noise you can hear directly.
In case of my DAC, it spices the sound! Once a ground loop RFI gets into my DAC (through USB connection ), it pollutes the analogue side's ground plane.
This produces a small but audible brightening of the sound, that's a bit harsh sounding. Switch to Optical, or use an isolator, then you can tell its gone.

 

[pma]

Ground loops are not that uncommon certainly not when dealing with sound reinforcement.
Such a device could quickly solve a weird hum problem, interface issues etc, does not require power and is wide enough in BW for mic or instrument signals.
Sure there are plenty of bigger DI boxes, active and passive that are much better suited even for hifi usage.

It should not be viewed as a hifi-device, also not when one bought one thinking it might be useful for that.
Amir's measurements have clearly shown it won't work for that and is intended for lower level signals and is bandwidth limited.

Sure, I am only afraid that not everyone understands the real purpose of this device.

Regarding bandwidth, with a slightly better transformer you get absolutely satisfactory bandwidth. Low frequency distortion issue remains, the core becomes saturated above 1V/50Hz approx. Under normal conditions this still remains inaudible and the hum issue is fixed.

Measurements of a similar adapter, frequency response (small ripple comes from the DAC filter) and harmonic distortion (150mV - 2V):

 

[amirm]

Yes, because it is not intended for hi-fi use:

This is not a matter of hi-fi or not. Impedance matching is only useful for very long cable runs. You incur losses and distortion if you load down the output of your device with 600 ohm. Professional use also includes studio which deals with even higher voltages than I tested. The owner wanted it for home hi-fi use which is how I tested it initially but then lowered the voltage some more to give it some chance to perform.

To be clear, it is not my job to struggle to find an application for a device that is clearly under-spec'ed to perform as its lofty product title implies: "Miniature transformer balancing adapter, 3 pole XLR female - RCA / phono socket, black coded." Anyone reading this will think this is a general purpose adapter. It certainly works that way, it is just that it performs very poorly in what many people may need it for. This is why the review is on target for people searching for these adapters.

 

[amirm]

I am really puzzled by how some are defending products like this. A great advice I once heard is that the best consumer device is one where the owner doesn't have to know how it works. An adapter converting XLR to RCA should do just that. Having the buyer grok obscure specs like "1% THD @ 50Hz" makes zero sense. Company could have easily warned off people form thinking it is a general purpose device but it has not. This is the same classic problem we have in consumer space. One liner specs like that even if more specific are next to useless. We need full sweeps to understand capabilities of a device. They either don't have such measurements or if they do, are keeping it from consumers. Both are bad reasons. So please don't go defending practices like this. It is not excusable.

 

[dfuller]

I am really puzzled by how some are defending products like this. A great advice I once heard is that the best consumer device is one where the owner doesn't have to know how it works. An adapter converting XLR to RCA should do just that. Having the buyer grok obscure specs like "1% THD @ 50Hz" makes zero sense. Company could have easily warned off people form thinking it is a general purpose device but it has not. This is the same classic problem we have in consumer space. One liner specs like that even if more specific are next to useless. We need full sweeps to understand capabilities of a device. They either don't have such measurements or if they do, are keeping it from consumers. Both are bad reasons. So please don't go defending practices like this. It is not excusable.

It's because your test doesn't make any sense. The specs clearly say that it isn't meant to do past about 500mV cleanly-ish, and yet here you are saying that it sucks because it distorts at... 8 times that? What exactly did you expect to happen?

 

[Gruesome]

Clearly nobody should hire you people as roadies.... ;-)
If you want to feed line level or higher into this coupler, you have to run it through a DI box with pad first: https://www.mixinglessons.com/di-box/
It's not Neutrik's fault if HiFi people don't know that. It's like putting diesel into your gasoline powered car.

 

[Gruesome]

Not correct. What microphone input have you ever seen that use an RCA input? RCA input is used for line level signals.

Well, you just keep buying that stuff then, and complaining. Good luck. At least you won't need a tow truck.

 

[Randyman...]

I happen to like this device:
- if you play electric guitar, and you are plagued by hum, then this device can be the answer. connect it to the guitar output, and then balanced cabling to home recording sound card.
- the 70mv or so is what a guitar pumps out, and if it distorts after that, so what ?
- should work with piezo violin pickup too.
- At this price, it will be a god sent to cash strapped home recording artists (is there another kind?!).
Don't use it for Hifi, don't shove a few volts into it.

Impedance is WAY too low for any of these suggested applications... You will end up with a muted top-end due to impedance mismatches between extremely High-Z sources (pickups and piezos) and the 200 Ohm input impedance of this device. Most DI's are 100K Ohm - 1 Meg Ohm!

 

[dtaylo1066]

POS from a quality brand name company. Utterly inexcusable.

 

[Chrispy]

I've used xlr to rca/rca to xlr cables without issue, never looked beyond such and with all the posting about specific use cases just makes me wonder what Neutrik had to say about use case....

 

[Hayabusa]

I am really puzzled by how some are defending products like this. A great advice I once heard is that the best consumer device is one where the owner doesn't have to know how it works. An adapter converting XLR to RCA should do just that. Having the buyer grok obscure specs like "1% THD @ 50Hz" makes zero sense. Company could have easily warned off people form thinking it is a general purpose device but it has not. This is the same classic problem we have in consumer space. One liner specs like that even if more specific are next to useless. We need full sweeps to understand capabilities of a device. They either don't have such measurements or if they do, are keeping it from consumers. Both are bad reasons. So please don't go defending practices like this. It is not excusable.

I think all the defending is triggered by abusing the device above specs.. I guess we try to defend this little thingy from being tortured

 

[sam_adams]

This is not a matter of hi-fi or not. Impedance matching is only useful for very long cable runs. You incur losses and distortion if you load down the output of your device with 600 ohm.

To amplify:

"In professional audio, however, the goal of the signal
transmission system is to deliver maximum voltage, not
maximum power. To do this, devices need low differential
(signal) output impedances and high differential (signal)
input impedances. This practice is the subject of a
1987 IEC standard requiring output impedances to be
50 Ω or less and input impedances to be 10 kΩ or more
[5]. Sometimes called voltage matching, it minimizes
the effects of cable capacitances and also allows an output
to drive multiple inputs simultaneously with minimal
level losses . With rare exceptions, such as telephone
equipment interfaces, the use of matched 600 Ω sources
and loads in professional audio is generally unnecessary
and compromises performance."

– Balanced Lines in Audio Systems: Fact, Fiction, and Transformers - Bill Whitlock, J. Audio Eng. Soc., Vol. 43, No.6, 1995 June

Reference [5] from above:

[5] IEC Pub. 268, "Sound System Equipment," pt. 15, "Preferred Matching Values," International Electrotechnical Commlssion, Geneva, Switzerland (1987), clause 13. 2.

Since our systems are voltage driven, not power driven, impedance matching isn't necessary or advised.

Just for fun, the measurements below are for a forty year old Audio Development Co BUG6-9 1:1 isolation transformer (similar to Triad SP-67) driven by 2 V RMS (cursor not shown @ 1 KHz) analog in/out on an old MacBook Pro:

Frequency

Distortion

 

[PeteL]

A great advice I once heard is that the best consumer device is one where the owner doesn't have to know how it works.

Sure, but it's not a consumer device, It says so right on the product page: "problem solvers for various intermating problems for professional and semi-professional applications"

 

[amirm]

Sure, but it's not a consumer device, It says so right on the product page: "problem solvers for various intermating problems for professional and semi-professional applications"

What is "semi-professional" then? And how studio work not professional? If I have an audio interface and want to drive a sub that only has RCA in and I use this, am I compliant with their description or not?

Fact is that for a technology company, that kind of language is just wrong. The owner bought this product because he is shopping for XLR to RCA adapter. Nothing in the description told him to stay way away from this product.