KEF R8 Meta Dolby Atmos Speaker Review

[Descartes]

No, the definition of anechoic measurements is that there are no reflections! If you want in-room, then if you have reasonably flat ceiling (texture), the on-axis response is what you get. The wall is basically an acoustic mirror.

Got it thank you!

 

[GXAlan]

First, I have little interest in home theater and all my audio considerations are to serve music listening. Second, my musical interests are in classical acoustic music where the enhancements of Atmos (over discrete multichannel) serve primarily for ambiance. Given that, I have found that the Atmos-enabled bounced speakers are more than adequate.

Agree with you on domestic tranquility. Pure speculation, but based upon your gray hair, I am assuming that you have maintained harmony for double-digit years.

You have the unique privilege/curse of audio being your profession whereas for many of us, it’s just a hobby.

In high cost of living areas of the US, namely where square footage is tight, it is difficult to have dedicated listening rooms or dedicated theater rooms. Ensuring that the necessary home square footage for the hobbies of everyone in family is available often entails shared spaces.

Many of us cannot simply move to areas of the country where it’s easier to have square footage for our audio hobby due to work, family, social priorities or other reasons that limit one’s ability to move to the middle of nowhere where land is cheap and there is reduced RFI/EMI.

This is one of the appeals of dual use home theater and 2 channel listening experiences.

What I wonder, and it would be an interesting article for me, is a round up of ambience enhancers for classical music

2 ch SACD
5 ch SACD/Blu-Ray
Atmos native streaming
Pro-Logic II* / Dolby Surround Upmixing
DTS Neural X
Auto 3D
Schiit’s new algorithm

 

[Descartes]

“My father was an acoustical engineer. In the 1960's our house had 12-foot ceilings with 8-foot closets.
He built dampened enclosures into the tops of each closet, Wharfedale (I think) coaxial speakers.
He then measured pure-tones to figure out the angles that worked best.
It sounded fantastic at the time, sound everywhere and quite live.”
——————————————————
Lucky growing up and appreciating good music with sound you are!

So in theory, I should get a similar effect hanging the speakers up the wall almost reaching the ceiling and aiming directly to the listening position?

Now we we need the practice

 

[GXAlan]

I must wonder...what are actually the use cases? helicpoters/planes....a meteor falling? how many times we have a camera pointing upwards to a sound event in movies? 5 seconds every 5-10 movies? I just don't see the point lol

Ambience in movies. It makes it harder to localize speakers while preserving pin point imaging for vocals or sound *effects*

If you listen to mainstream music, it’s pretty impressive how much content has been mastered in Atmos or how much historical catalog has been mastered in Atmos.

Personally, I look at this:

And would argue that more channels (again, of equal quality) blurs the differences even more.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

You have the unique privilege/curse of audio being your profession whereas for many of us, it’s just a hobby.

It is not a profession. It is an obsession.

 

[exm]

I don't see it either. Most movies and TV shows on Netflix, Disney+ or even Blu-Ray are 5.1 at max and only a few large budget blockbusters are mixed in 9.1.6.
Many home theatre enthusiasts rave about upmixing and creating this immersive sound and ambience though.
I certainly won't get the full 7.1.4 setup for those few blockbuster movies and limited Atmos music catalogue on Apple Music but when there more content available I'll consider it.
I can't wait to experience the new Christopher Nolan movie in an IMAX theatre though

With a good processor, it will extract information out of the 5.1 signal (we can all agree this is common), and upmix this to a spatial-like format. If you watch sports, the height channels work. If you watch a 5.1 show, there's plenty of effects besides helicopters that gets the height treatment.

I'm really not following the logic here. Are you guys saying that height upmixing from 5.1 sources isn't worth it?

 

[dasdoing]

You need to get out more. The camera doesn't need to point there (if it did, the sound should come from the screen channels). When the helicopter goes over your head it's now offscreen, but the audio lets you know where it's going which adds much realism.

but how high is the percentage of usecase? scenes where there is something happening above seam to be pretty rare. probably you have to watch 10 movies to get a single 5 seconds scene like that lol.

 

[dasdoing]

Are you guys saying that height upmixing from 5.1 sources isn't worth it?

how does this even work? does it analyse the video with AI?

 

[Jon AA]

I don't see it either. Most movies and TV shows on Netflix, Disney+ or even Blu-Ray are 5.1 at max and only a few large budget blockbusters are mixed in 9.1.6.

Actually pretty much every new series with any budget on Netflix, Disney+, Amazon or HBO is in Atmos these days. There are pretty much no Blu-Rays on the market for any movie produced in the last few years in 5.1. In other words, it's everywhere now.

but how high is the percentage of usecase? scenes where there is something happening above seam to be pretty rare. probably you have to watch 10 movies to get a single 5 seconds scene like that lol.

If you don't have a well put together immersive setup, how do you know how much you're missing? If it's only 5 seconds out of 10 movies, you need to stop watching so many romcoms. In addition to discrete effects, I think you're underestimating the impact of ambiance coming from the height channels (as it does in real life) in improving believability of the scene--both for movies and music. I encourage you to spend some time in a high-end/well done (that doesn't include any system using upfiring speakers--sorry Kal) home theater listening to demo material with somebody switching the height speakers on and off so you can hear the difference.

how does this even work? does it analyse the video with AI?

My understanding is back in the old days before immersive audio, it was common for mixers to apply an HRTF to effects meant to come from overhead and the Neural:X and the Dolby Upmixer look for those, in addition to general ambiance. Much the way phase was manipulated for stereo tracks--if you watch some quite old TV Series which had very well done audio, the upmixers do the same for surround by looking for that information. One example that comes to mind is Stargate SG1. Having re-watched recently I was shocked at how much descrete and very accurate surround material was mixed into some of those episodes even though to my knowledge they were never broadcast in anything other than stereo. Watching them with Dolby's upmixer gives a much better experience.

 

[amirm]

OK, an update on this. KEF folks are seeing the same dip I measured between 1 and 2 kHz. The simulation of the design didn't show it but actual implementation did. It is thought that it is due to internal reflections due to small/odd shaped enclosure. Fortunately as I mentioned, it is easily EQed due to it being a resonance.

 

[jhaider]

Atmos is best in a dedicated theater or listening room. That's domestic tranquility. Why bother with these over priced compromises in normal living areas.

Some people like to listen to music in rooms they actually use.

I know a few people with theater rooms in their homes. They never seem to use their theaters - maybe for the Superbowl or NCAA tourney. Really, who wants to spend free time in a dark cell?

 

[GXAlan]

OK, an update on this. KEF folks are seeing the same dip I measured between 1 and 2 kHz. The simulation of the design didn't show it but actual implementation did. It is thought that it is due to internal reflections due to small/odd shaped enclosure. Fortunately as I mentioned, it is easily EQed due to it being a resonance.

Nice. Once again, the data doesn’t lie.

I am surprised they didn’t do a validation of the simulation during development. It really does suggest the difference between the Reference line versus R line in terms of manufacturing and potential validation.

 

[Robbo99999]

OK, an update on this. KEF folks are seeing the same dip I measured between 1 and 2 kHz. The simulation of the design didn't show it but actual implementation did. It is thought that it is due to internal reflections due to small/odd shaped enclosure. Fortunately as I mentioned, it is easily EQed due to it being a resonance.

Wow, that is super surprising that they only found out this from you! (& not from themselves earlier)

 

[KenMasters]

Anyone with REW can wire the front channels to the up-firing speakers and show the in-room response at the listening position.

If committed to Atmos, I would mount down firing speakers or mount the Kefs on a wall.
This would not do much damage to the walls.

- Rich

I own two pairs of the prior generation R8s. I have one pair serving as Atmos speakers up front, bouncing off my relatively low (2.3m) drywall ceiling, the effect of which is absolutely convincing in my room. The other pair firing directly serving as rear surrounds.

Here's a comparison of the unequalised response of both sets from my MLP (crossed over at 150Hz):



Fronts are positioned out of site behind the TV and the rears high on the back wall:

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Wow, that is super surprising that they only found out this from you! (& not from themselves earlier)

I guess they do not care enough and went with simulation because they know noone will ever notice anyway due to the application of an up firing speaker which will only play reflected ambient sounds..

But I may be wrong. And cynical..

 

[amirm]

Wow, that is super surprising that they only found out this from you! (& not from themselves earlier)

No, no! My contact didn't have the engineering data. Folks who designed the actual speaker had it and just took a bit to find and compare.

 

[Descartes]

Some people like to listen to music in rooms they actually use.

I know a few people with theater rooms in their homes. They never seem to use their theaters - maybe for the Superbowl or NCAA tourney. Really, who wants to spend free time in a dark cell?

I wish i would to have a theater room, we watch movies every night! So having that dedicated space would be fantastic! We also enjoy listening to classical orchestra music in surround sound so the room would probably would be used often. Especially when the kids want to play video games.

 

[amirm]

I wish i would to have a theater room, we watch movies every night!

When done right, it is a very nice experience. Just finished watching a movie with my wife in our theater and it was just wonderful. The image is almost 12 foot wide which is massively larger than our TV. With surround sound, subs and such, it takes you to a different place. Alas, it is expensive to setup even if you have the room.

 

[Descartes]

When done right, it is a very nice experience. Just finished watching a movie with my wife in our theater and it was just wonderful. The image is almost 12 foot wide which is massively larger than our TV. With surround sound, subs and such, it takes you to a different place. Alas, it is expensive to setup even if you have the room.

Lucky you, one day I am looking to build my home theater with 9.4.6 system! I will ask you for any advice you can provide!

 

[Fidji]

Some people like to listen to music in rooms they actually use.

I know a few people with theater rooms in their homes. They never seem to use their theaters - maybe for the Superbowl or NCAA tourney. Really, who wants to spend free time in a dark cell?

Partial sensory deprivation as a result of listening to the music in absolute darkness of dedicated listening/HT room is quite some experience. Super comfy adjustable seating adds to it. Recommended.

I think we spend as a family more time combined in HT than in living room (actually outdoors terrace/garden taking first place)