KEF R8 Meta Dolby Atmos Speaker Review

[amirm]

my system is 4.1

Then you need to find a friend with that setup and do as I mentioned.

 

[exm]

lol. had to google that



possible. but is there really much coming from above in real life? is there a way to extract height channels from atmos material so I can get an idea?

My height speakers have its own amp. I can simply turn off the amp for the floor speakers to only hear my 6 height speakers. There’s a lot there.

 

[Descartes]

Perhaps a 7.2/4.4 could be enough in such a space.

Currently running a 9.2.2 in the living room area with 9 KEF LS50 which is smaller than the dedicated space I am looking to do.

Plus having 6 ATMOS speakers:
2 in front
2 in the middle over the primary sitting area and
2 in the back would provide much greater surround sound great enjoyment when watching sci-fi, action and war movies!

The processors I am considering can do 9.4.6!

 

[amirm]

FYI I added a comparison of KEF's own measurements against mine (they were kind enough to create the overlay):

As I noted in the review, the agreement between the two is incredibly good! The only deviation is bass where their anechoic chamber is too small to be accurate there.

 

[Newman]

but is there really much coming from above in real life?

It’s not necessarily limited to ‘above’. The apparent source could be allocated to in-between locations, eg just slightly above the main speakers.

 

[Newman]

FYI I added a comparison of KEF's own measurements against mine (they were kind enough to create the overlay):

Amir, I’m curious why your comments for the output of an upfiring height speaker are based on its performance as a main speaker. Wouldn’t it be better to draw the Dolby target curve on your chart above and discuss deviations from target?

I sourced the above from comment #195.

I also have another suggestion for a useful performance measure for upfiring Atmos speakers. The Precedence Effect dictates that at, a certain DI, the apparent sound source will move from the ceiling to the speaker box itself (a weakness of upfiring height speakers that ceiling-mounted height speakers don’t have). In fact, the direct arrival sound does not even need to match the ceiling reflected sound SPL before the Precedent Effect takes over: for the given amount of delayed reflection, there is a lower SPL for off-axis direct sound where precedence will dictate that we hear the apparent source as the direct sound. So, a useful performance measure would be the frequency below which it ceases to act as a height speaker, ie it ceases to function for its intended purpose.

cheers

 

[amirm]

Amir, I’m curious why your comments for the output of an upfiring height speaker are based on its performance as a main speaker. Wouldn’t it be better to draw the Dolby target curve on your chart above and discuss deviations from target?

Maybe. I don't know of any underlying research validating it. Regardless, KEF has that implemented a mild version of it if you look closely at the frequency response.

 

[exm]

S

Amir, I’m curious why your comments for the output of an upfiring height speaker are based on its performance as a main speaker. Wouldn’t it be better to draw the Dolby target curve on your chart above and discuss deviations from target?
View attachment 285351

I sourced the above from comment #195.

I also have another suggestion for a useful performance measure for upfiring Atmos speakers. The Precedence Effect dictates that at, a certain DI, the apparent sound source will move from the ceiling to the speaker box itself (a weakness of upfiring height speakers that ceiling-mounted height speakers don’t have). In fact, the direct arrival sound does not even need to match the ceiling reflected sound SPL before the Precedent Effect takes over: for the given amount of delayed reflection, there is a lower SPL for off-axis direct sound where precedence will dictate that we hear the apparent source as the direct sound. So, a useful performance measure would be the frequency below which it ceases to act as a height speaker, ie it ceases to function for its intended purpose.

cheers

If you look at Kef’s website these speakers are sold as: “The R8 Meta can serve as a surround or rear speaker with the integrated wall mount feature, or be placed upon another speaker for Dolby Atmos height to bounce sound off the ceiling”

I have a feeling that a lot of customers buying these will use them wall mounted.

 

[Dj7675]

I guess they do not care enough and went with simulation because they know noone will ever notice anyway due to the application of an up firing speaker which will only play reflected ambient sounds..

But I may be wrong. And cynical..

It can also be used as an on wall surround speaker, so direct sound does matter

 

[Newman]

If you look at Kef’s website these speakers are sold as: “The R8 Meta can serve as a surround or rear speaker with the integrated wall mount feature, or be placed upon another speaker for Dolby Atmos height to bounce sound off the ceiling”

I have a feeling that a lot of customers buying these will use them wall mounted.

Being dual purpose requires either compromise (“jack of all trades, master of none”), or sacrifice of one purpose for the other.

I would much rather see a speaker made for one specific purpose.

cheers

 

[jhaider]

Yep. This is why I use 9.x.7 setup with Center Height. All with standard bookshelves speakers mounted from the ceiling. 2 holes in the ceiling for each mount.

I’m confused what format supports that.

Auro supports 5 height + VOG
Atmos has even numbers (no center)

I found it interesting that @Floyd Toole found value in adding the center height, though given the cost of his custom work to have earthquake-resistant height channel mounts designed and fabricated, perhaps the marginal cost was reasonable enough.

Some months ago there was a very heated up debate between HT youtubers. On the one hand, the Audioholics guys argued that in ceiling speakers are the right way to go while Joe´n Tell and TechnoDad argued that height speakers, as long as the angles were well aimed, was equally good with the advantage of the flexibility for Auro and DTS.

From your perspective, you seem to align with the idea that a height setup, not just strictly in ceiling, can be perfectly functional. I have only tried bookshelves on a very tall shelf angled down and it worked quite well, but you definetly have the advantage of having tested both methods.

My take is use decent or better speakers, aimed properly, at angles that are within the tolerance for both Auro and Atmos (I don’t know or care what dts recommends, as nobody streams native content in their format and their music upmixer isn’t great.)

Depending on your ceiling height and listening distance, on-wall heights could work. They did in our Atlanta house but do not in our Chicago house.

If practicable I do prefer ceiling speakers (mounted further out than Atmos guidelines, in Trinnov's hybrid location) with angled or amiable midrange/tweeter unit, because they're least obtrusive (assuming your ceilings can mount them) and good ones sound very good.

The downside with that approach is such a limited selection. Leaving aside the toppled MTM+woofer models (I think we can all agree, no thanks, no matter what name is on the bezel) there's the JBL Synthesis models, a range from Tannoy that seems to have dropped with no fanfare, the strange Monoprice 3-way with no enclosure for the coax MT, and some of the rotatable-coax models from, e.g. Monitor Audio and Sonance. (If you're OK with lower output and a little bit of ceiling protrusion (no worse than a can light) Tannoy's 4" rotatable model is serviceable - On a budget I'd take those over the toppled MTMs often suggested. There may be others that I don't know about. I hope so. I know the one I want - this one on an angled baffle, this one in a motorized enclosure, or a KEF R-Series coax on a V-shaped baffle with a stout woofer on the other side of the V, does not exist. (On second thought, maybe not motorizes. A motorized one would look really awkward if you tried to rotate it towards the listening area - you'd have squares at strange angles in your ceiling. Then again, a motorized one with a small Uni-Q like LS60's and two helper woofers would probably be just fine firing forward straight ahead...)

On-ceiling speakers are my last choice, unless you have some sort of architectural feature that could hide them (e.g. in-walls or a soffit-mount in a stepped ceiling). They just don't look good, and knowing something's ugly is a known psychoacoustic turn-off.

Being dual purpose requires either compromise (“jack of all trades, master of none”), or sacrifice of one purpose for the other.

I would much rather see a speaker made for one specific purpose.

They could have a switch between two crossovers, I suppose. But the official Dolby demos with bouncers seem to use KEF R-Series speakers, so maybe there's less than meets the eye with compensation curve.

 

[Fidji]

I’m confused what format supports that.

Auro supports 5 height + VOG
Atmos has even numbers (no center)

simple - I use Auro as upmix for 5.1/7.1 content incl DTS, which is majority of my discs and actually also majority of content found on streaming. And Center Height really is audible improvement over previous setup.

I also use Trinnov “speaker array“ function to basically duplicate some speakers in specific formats and for less critical viewing it is utilized in 3D remapping option.

 

[exm]

You could also use DTS:X with FCH (front height channel) to get an uneven number of speakers. I personally prefer the DTS ionizer over Dolby even with Atmos sources.

 

[dasdoing]

“The R8 Meta can serve as a surround or rear speaker with the integrated wall mount feature, or be placed upon another speaker for Dolby Atmos height to bounce sound off the ceiling”

it's a very strange product. if it can be used for both there need to be a switch lol
Kef builds quality, but it's focus doesn't seam to be the engeniering side.
My subwoofer is Kef. It is beautiful and has a superb driver. On the other hand it doesn't even have a limiter, which even cheap subwoofers seam to have

 

[Descartes]

FYI I added a comparison of KEF's own measurements against mine (they were kind enough to create the overlay):

As I noted in the review, the agreement between the two is incredibly good! The only deviation is bass where their anechoic chamber is too small to be accurate there.

What does this W looking drop mean? That must not be very good!

 

[Fidji]

You could also use DTS:X with FCH (front height channel) to get an uneven number of speakers. I personally prefer the DTS ionizer over Dolby even with Atmos sources.

My order of preference for upmixers is
1) Auromatic
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7) DTS Neural X
8) DSU

;-)

 

[juliangst]

I just captured some Apple Music dolby atmos tracks using Blackhole and Audacity to analyse how they're mixed.

Some tracks have no content on the center channel or only vocals on the center channel which are 20dB quieter than L+R while other tracks use the center a lot more.
Surround channels are about 5dB quieter than the mains but also carry alot of important information. I found that surround backs are not always necessary because most of the content happens on the side surrounds.
Height channels have the least content on them and are about 10-20dB quieter than the mains.

I've also seen some tracks that utilize the rear and height channels a lot more.
I think 4.1.2 is a good start for getting into Dolby Atmos music and for music I would first add rear surrounds before adding more height speakers (if the space allows it).

 

[MacCali]

Hmmm, I am certain a couple of things do make the meta better than the R8a.

I purchased the r8a after the review of the in ceiling speaker review.

I later saw Erin measured them and they seem to have really good measurements when 30 degrees off axis.

My question is how do I achieve this, I am confused as to what he is saying particularly, written review. Do I turn them left and right 30 degrees off axis or do I tilt them more towards the floor? 30 degrees down or up

 

[Shando]

How big of a difference is the R8A vs the R8? I am thinking of buying 2-4 of them to use as height speakers or maybe placing them on top of the R11 left right speaker and R3 rear surround speaker for a 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 set up right now. I don't think I can mount them on the wall for rear height speakers unless I put them on the side walls.

 

[juliangst]

The old R8 measures better, is a lot cheaper and should already be pretty overkill for atmos