First off, I would like to ask ASR members to not attack the OP for his inexperience or not knowing what he wants. That is NORMAL for anybody new to this hobby.
I can avoid placing speakers in the corners or right against the wall. But practically, I don’t want to have a large gap between the speakers and the wall because other than aesthetic issues, I don’t want my dogs to knock over an expensive piece of equipment. If having any of these speakers a few inches away from the wall is a dealbreaker, please let me know. I don’t know how serious the requirement would be not to have a rear ported speaker
Not a dealbreaker. You will likely get sound that you will be happy with, if your requirements are only that it will play loud. But you will not be getting performance that you have paid good money for, which is why so many of us are against the idea. The reasons why have been elaborated many times in this thread, so I will not rehash.
- Some mentioned that the type of music won’t matter. To me, the reason it matters is because rock, pop, rap usually have a consistent sound. I’ve never had issues cranking up the volume of these genres. But classical is very different, where sometimes you might get almost complete silence in the recording. When cranked up, noise can overwhelm the signal. I also think harmonic distortion is much easier to notice in such recordings. I did an online test and I can’t detect distortion below 1% (single frequency). But in more cacophonous music, I couldn’t detect distortion above 10% or even much, much higher. That’s why to me, trying to crank up Arvo Part’s Spiegel is much more challenging than works by Queen because I will hear that distortion in Part at much lower levels than in a Queen recording.
What you say is true. My gf came down last night to listen to music with me, and she listens to the cacophony that they call K-pop (Korean pop music). She listened to some of my classical pieces after my latest improvements to my DSP tuning, and she said "wow it sounds so real!". Then she wanted to listen to her K-pop and she was immediately disappointed. She complained that the singers don't seem to be in front of her any more and it doesn't sound real. I also pointed out a lot of things that are missing - like, no sense that it was recorded in a room, all the voices sound artificial, and that she had to turn the volume a lot lower to get the same SPL (because of the loudness wars). And I don't know if it would be even possible to hear distortion in heavy metal even if there was 100% distortion because it already sounds so distorted to me anyway. We listen to real instruments and if something is off with the tonality or timbre, it is much easier to hear because we know what instruments are supposed to sound like.
- Volume levels: Most importantly, I finally went to a stereo shop and listened to speakers. I can confirm that at least in an enclosed, treated room, spiking to 95dB was what I would consider loud. I was a bit embarrassed to crank it up higher since I didn’t want to damage anything, but I think that would be a good level. By that measure, I think 100-105dB would be very loud. These are the speakers I listened to:
If you have a system that has an even frequency response and follows the ISO226 equal loudness curve, you do not need to crank it up. I listen at 75dB with ISO226 compensation* applied, and it sounds great. I find most people boost the volume because they intuitively know that the freq response is off at low volumes, or because their systems produce a lumpy freq response so they have to up the volume to hear what they want to hear. It might also be your preference to listen loud.
* this refers to how the freq response sensitivity of your ears changes with volume. Lower volumes need more bass and treble to sound the same volume.
- Some conclusions from the above:
- I could not tell much difference between the floor standing and bookshelf BWs. They both sounded great and loud. The bookshelf had a little less bass, but still was great to me
- The Revel was also nice, but to me, BW sounded better and more crisp. But nothing I would call a dealbreaker
- All these speakers got loud enough for me, at least in that room. However, the volume was almost to the max. I probably had 3 or so more UP clicks before the volume would have maxed out. So probably a bit more headroom would be better.
- Most importantly, it was almost emotional to hear the music I have been listening to for many years suddenly sound new and so magnificient (I had taken some files on a USB). It was hard to remember that I’m evaluating speakers and I was just really getting lost in music
I am delighted that you got to experience that! For us, it's like telling you how delicious a burger is but there is no way to know until you actually eat a burger (I am one of those strange types who gets emotional about food!).
Revels are tuned differently to B&W's. B&W's typically have too much treble, which I am not a fan of. Revels have much more neutral tuning. But B&W's might work for you. I think you have also realized that what works in a small room will not work in a larger room. From what I remember, your room isn't that large. It's a bit smaller than mine, and I can tell you that I can put bookshelf speakers in my room and it's plenty loud for me. But remember my preference for volume seems to be much lower than yours.
- I’ve been missing out all these years, which is the worst part. But oh well, better late than never. I’m lucky to be able to afford good speakers decades before retirement, an unfortunate trend I’ve noticed among some people in some of my other hobbies. When you’re young, you don’t have money. When you’re old, you might have money, but not the physical ability to enjoy it.
Hahaha, it never ends!! Wait till you buy these speakers and start enjoying them. Then you get invited to someone's house with an amazing sound system. Then you will feel as if you have been missing out again. I have been in this hobby for 30 years, which is less than a lot of people on ASR. I have listened to dozens of systems in shops, hifi shows, and in homes. I still come across things I have never heard before and I am still learning.
- Elac DBR62, Hypex NCx500 amplifier, UMIK-1, MiniDSP Flex, 2x SVS SB 1000 sub
- Seems like a nice option, but I’m just not sure if I can implement it quickly
- I’ve never used a DSP
- With so many components, the complexity is high. Am I going to have a great sounding system if it’s not tuned property, vs for example using a KH-150 or Genelec?
- There is that issue of where am I going to put all this equipment when all I will have is just two stands of wireless speakers, connected together by a wire
- Some mentioned I might be able to fry the speakers. I think that’s possible because if I can’t get the right volume, I will probably keep going up in the quest for output.
- Although Zollalll and Vladimir Filevski had an interesting back and forth, I have to apologize that I still didn’t quite get the final point whether KH-150 or this system would be more powerful. It seemed like this system might be much louder, but I’m not certain. And by that, I don’t mean just having a strong bass, but louder music itself, such as a solo violin which I think has almost no bass.
- Bluesound Node supports only a single sub. I’m assuming it’s the miniDSP that would allow two subs?
- I like this system, but to me the many components (plus the two subs) is a downside for now. I was even thinking that I could later transition this to my office, but that room is much smaller and again, the issue of too many components becomes even more of an issue
For now, you should forget about subs, DSP, and so on. You might eventually need them, but right now you don't need them. Keep it simple and get the best speakers you can. The above advice should be taken an upgrade pathway, rather than something you need to do immediately. The most important rule for upgrading is:
never spend money unless you have identified a problem and have a rational solution to fix it. You don't have speakers, so you don't know if you have a problem yet. What WE consider to be potential problems may not be a problem for YOU when you get your speakers and put them in your room. You might be perfectly happy with the sound, so you may not even need to go down this route.
BTW, it is hard for dogs to knock over a sturdy stand for bookshelf speakers, especially if it is very heavy. Some stands are hollow and you can take the top off and fill it with sand or lead shot (I found a 10kg bag of lead shot online for USD$50 ... I just looked). Some bookshelf speakers have holes so they can be bolted to stands. Of course, it depends on how big your dogs are. You could place some obstacles around your speaker stands so they can't run fast near them. And you can train your dogs not to run around in the house. I trained my dog not to walk on any carpeted areas. Just a thought.
