WiiM Mini Streamer

[Ralph_Cramden]

I could consider this if it's solely my issue. But it is not, so it seems to be a matter of subset of WiiMs with unknown criteria of being part of that.

Well, another firmware update is scheduled soon, so maybe the issue will disappear. Patience is a virtue, they say.

 

[Brantome]

Did anyone try to hear on the WiiM those files I've uploaded?

i’m normally not that great at discerning small differences in sound, but yes I can hear the difference between the first set of files (listening to the good/bad files at least gave me an idea of what to listen out for), both with EQ on and off, and fixed volume output in the WiiM app. I admit I did have to be fairly up close to my speakers though. Tbh, I’ve not really been getting the drift of the last few pages of discussion about whether the latest firmware means the WiiM is no longer bit perfect or not - I guess that’s the purpose of these files…

 

[onlyoneme]

i’m normally not that great at discerning small differences in sound, but yes I can hear the difference between the first set of files (listening to the good/bad files at least gave me an idea of what to listen out for), both with EQ on and off, and fixed volume output in the WiiM app. I admit I did have to be fairly up close to my speakers though. Tbh, I’ve not really been getting the drift of the last few pages of discussion about whether the latest firmware means the WiiM is no longer bit perfect or not - I guess that’s the purpose of these files…

Purpose of those files is simple - to allow anyone to verify if his/her WiiM is affected or not. And to evaluate how common the issue seems to be, maybe it can help to identify the reason and will speed up the fixing process.

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

They may have been busy focusing on pro that’s why there’s little activity going.

I'm guessing the new Deezer API, due soon, is taking a bit of their time, not to mention integration of Pandora. The WiiM Home apps are ready for New Deezer, I'm assuming the firmware will need to change, as well. Very time-consuming stuff.

 

[Brantome]

Purpose of those files is simple - to allow anyone to verify if his/her WiiM is affected or not. And to evaluate how common the issue seems to be, maybe it can help to identify the reason and will speed up the fixing process.

Sorry, I’m still not clear - does the difference in these files mean that the WiiM is no longer bit perfect, or does it demonstrate a different issue?

 

[Bamyasi]

So I'm personally not at all concerned by whatever digital distortion is shown by (potentially - I don't know) flawed digital captures.
In the digital domain, we only care about all the bits making it to DAC digital input... bit perfect transfer is all that matters.

Exactly. There is no distortion in the digital domain, such thing simply does not exists. So what @onlyoneme and @morillon are talking about could be either problems with their equipment (DAC, processor, measurements rig, etc) or a malfunctioning WiiM Mini TOSLINK transmitter chip (possibly due to bugs in the firmware). The latter explanation I have really hard time imagining since distortion they are observing is obviously input signal level-dependent, which rules out things like clock inconsistency. Then we are left with power supply but that's also quite unlikely to produce such effect.

 

[onlyoneme]

Sorry, I’m still not clear - does the difference in these files mean that the WiiM is no longer bit perfect, or does it demonstrate a different issue?

The only difference between two files in the zip archive is the sound level. If you can hear the difference similar to the difference between "good" and "bad" files from the last archive, that means that your WiiM attenuates the volume and the same time adds distortions to the digital audio data. One of the results is that it can be no longer called "bit perfect", as it alters the data.

 

[onlyoneme]

Exactly. There is no distortion in the digital domain, such thing simply does not exists. So what @onlyoneme and @morillon are talking about could be either problems with their equipment (DAC, processor, measurements rig, etc) or a malfunctioning WiiM Mini TOSLINK transmitter chip (possibly due to bugs in the firmware). The latter explanation I have really hard time imagining since distortion they are observing is obviously input signal level-dependent, which rules out things like clock inconsistency. Then we are left with power supply but that's also quite unlikely to produce such effect.

There is an audio distortion possible in the digital domain when that domain represents audio content. It's highly related to the fact that you use audio equipment like WiiM to play audio stored in the digital domain, instead opening it in the Excel or reading it in the notepad.

 

[morillon]

factuel
same files( generally at 48k24bits)...
same acquisition device... ( verified in loopback enob 23.84bits 1khz 48k24bits)
virtins pro ( or rew same result)

same software , hificast or bubbleupnp (same result) with chrome and wiim.. or tests with a second one for the wiim (wiim home..)
wiim with two different optical fibers as a precaution...
chromecast audio in toslink to..


mid September the toslink measurements, under the same conditions:
chromecast and wiim were good and comparable... wiim a little better generally but more jitter...

now wiim not (digital or analog output),
and related to the level..
chromecast yes...mesureaments toslink like september...and no distortions..

if i make this mesureaments ,that s because the sound is not so good for me since a moment...(and that I hadn't changed moved)

same observation of onelyoneme with a another aquisition device etc and another wiim

I can say no more
;-)

 

[Wino]

Can someone explain the issue with using the digital volume control with the Wiim? I just ordered 2 of them for Tidal. They arrive sometime today. I currently use Picoreplayer and LMS. With that I use Squeeze Ctrl for volume control as its a pain to get up and control preamp volume all the time. Was planning on using the Wiim volume control with Tidal.

 

[Bamyasi]

There is an audio distortion possible in the digital domain when that domain represents audio content. It's highly related to the fact that you use audio equipment like WiiM to play audio stored in the digital domain, instead opening it in the Excel or reading it in the notepad.

No there is not. There is technically no difference at all between loading digital stream in a hex editor or passing it to S/PDIF via TOSLINK port.

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

 

[Smartplug]

Using Audirvana , playing DSD64 (DSD over PCM) to WiiM Mini, DSD64 passes it through to my RME ADI-2 just fine.

DoP would not work if bits were manipulated.

Along with DTS, DoP64 has long been known to be a great bit perfect test method for SPDIF sources...

I got an answer from wiim forum about gapless and 192khz on chromecast. If the source support gapless so does chromecast. It is determined by source. Chromecast also support 192khz. That answer made chromecast the ultimate connection of any kind.

 

[Music1969]

View attachment 240379

WiiM potentially pulling off (another) world first.

I've never seen any Chromecast device supporting 192kHz.

Another blow to Bluesound and BluOS as if Amazon UHD casting wasn't enough

Roon can "push" to Chromecast gaplessly, so that will keep Roonies happy till it gets full Roon Ready support.

 

[Smartplug]

View attachment 240379

Chromecast is ultimate connection on any kind at it extend to 192khz as oppose of 96khz.

 

[Smartplug]

With chromecast support 192khz, apple high resolution loseless can be cast at 192khz.

 

[Music1969]

With chromecast support 192khz, apple high resolution loseless can be cast at 192khz.

No, you have to look by app. Different apps support different format and sample rate.

It wouldn't make sense for Apple to support 192kHz lossless to Chromecast (Google!) devices, if they can't even support it with Apple hardware (yet).

Amazon UHD does not support 192kHz lossless with Chromecast also.

Google each app to see what Chromecast supports.

 

[Music1969]

Might not be popular for audiophiles obsessed with lossless audio.

But Chromecast is very useful for non-Airplay users (there's hundreds of millions of people) that want to cast from phone to streamer.

And you should be able to use Qobuz iOS app and Chromecast to WiiM Pro - that will be lossless. No need to use WiiM Home app or other 3rd party app.
We'll see about gapless.

 

[onlyoneme]

No there is not. There is technically no difference at all between loading digital stream in a hex editor or passing it to S/PDIF via TOSLINK port.

Stop talking about WiiM and start to enjoy your audio in a hex editor.

All the digital data reflect capabilities of objects being encoded to the digital form. Digital images have resolution, color depth or brightness, digital movies inherit what digital images can deliver plus some unique properties like frame rate. A digital audio has sample rate, volume and even distortions.

BTW digital domain is quite abstract, as you do not store bits on CD or HDD, and you do not send bits over toslink in fact. All of that is in another domain being considered later as digital data because of a convention established how to interpret other domains to get bits.

 

[onlyoneme]

If the source support gapless so does chromecast.

No, it does not. Source is a data stream representing audio song. Those songs must be delivered to the destination in a specific manner to get gapless playback. There are different ways to do that, ie. telling the streamer which song will be played next in advance.
Gapless playback must be implemented in the chromecast protocol. Chromecast API allows for that but it's a decision if it's being used or not.