Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[Roland68]

What's that?

Just as an example...
https://www.amazon.de/auna-AMP-5100...69&refinements=p_89:auna&s=ce-de&sr=1-11&th=1
https://www.amazon.de/auna-3800-Blu...o/dp/B08GFCK5P4/ref=psdc_571760_t1_B08BFKD3FS
https://www.amazon.com/Home-Audio-R...fiers&rh=n:281053,p_89:Pyle&c=ts&ts_id=281053

Inkel Corporation builds, in addition to many other electronic products, both cheap AV receivers (including Sherwood, but also a lot of no-name), as well as pseudo AV receivers. This means all products that claim to be 5-channel or 5.1, but actually have no real AV receiver functionalities (DSP, codecs, room correction, etc.).
Of course, there are other manufacturers who produce something like this. You can find these products everywhere where something like this is sold and it is always about the price (any discounter).

This area is of course included in the study, but the study is not entirely up-to-date and this market has been in sharp decline over the last 3-4 years.
This is mainly due to the advent of soundbar systems (2.1 and 5.1) and both real and pseudo 5.1 (or more) systems that are self-contained. These systems come with subwoofers, integrated amplifiers and functionality such as ARC, DSP, codecs, room correction, streaming etc.
In addition, they are accepted in many households due to their small size and their inconspicuousness. That is very often the deciding factor.
It's no surprise that this segment accounts for by far the largest share of the AV receiver market.

 

[peng]

I just returned mine. Too many comments trying to convince SINAD is inaudible, but Denon has definitely done something or tweaked the unit’s curves without RC. Even PureDirect mode sounds different than my AKM 3700, which it should not. I just keep the 3700 for another year or so until they get their act together.

I think those are fair comments based on many known facts. Regardless, like others, I don't like D+M substituting the DAC IC with one that has much higher distortions. If one can wait, it is better to just wait for a year or so and see if D+M would change their attitude and go back to a better IC even if they have to increase the price to maintain their profit margin.

 

[Music1969]

Has anyone actually written to Denon ?

If you want change you must report this review to Denon !

 

[delta76]

I think those are fair comments based on many known facts. Regardless, like others, I don't like D+M substituting the DAC IC with one that has much higher distortions. If one can wait, it is better to just wait for a year or so and see if D+M would change their attitude and go back to a better IC even if they have to increase the price to maintain their profit margin.

With this inflation still raging with no end in sight, I would not be too surprised to see another price hike. So pick your poison, we are f*cked anyway

 

[voodooless]

Has anyone actually written to Denon ?

If you want change you must report this review to Denon !

Amir confirmed the measurements with Denon, I’m pretty sure they know ASR exists.

 

[peng]

Has anyone actually written to Denon ?

If you want change you must report this review to Denon !

If you start a thread with poll and if we reach a large enough number of requests for change then may be someone can find a way for it to reach the powers that be?

 

[Music1969]

If you start a thread with poll and if we reach a large enough number of requests for change then may be someone can find a way for it to reach the powers that be?

Another way, just fill this form and include a link to page 1 of this review and voice your disappointment there.

Ask a Question

support.denon.com

If they get 1000 complaints within 1 week, it will at least get looked at , by the right people/person

 

[peng]

With this inflation still raging with no end in sight, I would not be too surprised to see another price hike. So pick your poison, we are f*cked anyway

May be they can still use the remaining PCM5102A for the lower models but from the X4800H and up, including the SR8015's replacement (Cinema 30?) they really should do an upgrade.

Can't imagine them using that DAC IC in their Marantz flagship model that costs almost as much as Denon's A1H!! Even the Cinema 40 that supposedly is the replacement of the SR7015 is listed for $3,500, and you still get this PCM5102A, any HDAM upgrade is not going to get better measurements than the X3800H because the DAC will still be the SINAD bottleneck. Fortunately, many if not most Marantz lovers likely are immune to objective measurements because they will always hear that warm/musical sound regardless of facts and measurements.

 

[Music707]

Design's goal should have been to match last generation's performance as close as possible, if not improve it. To the extent they took a major step backward, the job was not done. Now, if someone told them to cut costs and they did that, then the blame goes to that person who now has to explain away my review in the eyes of consumers.

Supply chain has caused huge number of redesigns in electronic business. In every case the norm is to maintain performance, not drop it by leaps and bounds.


No one is interested in "most likely" in this class product. And that certainly doesn't then translate to "audibly transparent." Even the last generation was not audibly transparent (that would require a dynamic range of 120 dB). This one is just worse. That's the story and anything else is a PR spin.

In the case of the 3700 one might want to have a closer look at what is understood as "last generation" because we have two versions of the 3700.

The generation history might be seen like this: 3700 "AKM" -> 3700 "non-AKM" -> 3800

From a consumer standpoint is it disappointing to be offered a standard that is below what already had been reached (3700 "AKM").

Denon engineers might have taken the latest existing version of the 3700 (i. e. "non-AKM") as the basis for developing what now is the 3800. Literally they might even have succeeded in matching or improving the possibly lowered (compared to the 3700 "AKM") standard of the 3700 "non-AKM". But in that case the challenge should have been not only to match the latest prior version but additionally to compensate for the possible performance drop from "AKM" to "non-AKM".

Of course, we don't have measurements for the 3700 "non-AKM" so that we don't have proof where exactly the performance drop took place.

Please take my words as kind of a friendly reminder to everybody because there seems to have been a lot of confusion in many posts on this forum already for the lack of explicitly distinguishing between the two versions of the 3700.

 

[peng]

There is no need to use AKM. Ess has usable 8 channel DAC’s of various qualities and price points.

Or they can use the same board they used for the AKM chips.

 

[voodooless]

Or they can use the same board they used for the AKM chips.

My guess is the new versions of these chips are not yet available in enough numbers, or the new pricing makes them no longer interesting. When these boards were designed, there was even less certainty about availability.

 

[peng]

It really isn't too bad for the AVR-X3800H owners because of the much more reasonable price. I wonder if some of those who spent big money on their recently purchased the higher end Denon AVR-X6700H and presumable the even more expensive Marantz SR8015 would feel cheated? I hope they are firmly in the "subjective measurements" camp and don't care much about specs and/or bench measurements.

 

[peng]

My guess is the new versions of these chips are not yet available in enough numbers, or the new pricing makes them no longer interesting. When these boards were designed, there was even less certainty about availability.

Agreed, but we are talking about 1 year or 2 from now right, hopefully just in time for the availability of the FW upgrade for Dirac Live DLBC.

 

[goldark]

It really isn't too bad for the AVR-X3800H owners because of the much more reasonable price. I wonder if some of those who spent big money on their recently purchased the higher end Denon AVR-X6700H and presumable the even more expensive Marantz SR8015 would feel cheated? I hope they are firmly in the "subjective measurements" camp and don't care much about specs and/or bench measurements.

What's the source for that table if you don't mind my asking? I wonder why they only list the 1700 and 6700 from the x700 series.

 

[peng]

What's the source for that table if you don't mind my asking? I wonder why they only list the 1700 and 6700 from the x700 series.

I copied this from an Audioholics.com post so I don't know the source as the poster did not include a link. I have seen a better one (also no link if I remember right), like a full page on ASR and am still searching for it. I should have bookmarked that post..

Edit: Found it! Thanks to @GXAlan who actually did include the link to the source site

Big news coming from Sound United in 2023!

Dirac does do delay and level matching. That's correct... including NAD devices

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Ajax]

5.1 and 7.1 is available as TrueHD or DD+. But Atmos is not available, or very limited.

And playback and decoding does not make it an AVR. Your supposed to be able to hook up other video sources as well and decode that audio.

Thanks for your reply.

I appreciate Atmos not being available would be a deterrent for some, however, my primary interest is music so if I can stream a movie from Netflix or Prime say in 7.1 using a computer then I'm good.

On the music side being able to output up to 8 different channels using software such as Roon, into a combination of the Topping DM7 DAC with a 8 x Buckeye AMP, has immense appeal to me. I can use DSP to easily integrate a 3 way system such as Siegfried Linkwitz's LX Mini with a pair of subwoofers and achieve SOTA playback.

I appreciate we all have different needs and for most an AVR is a simple and hassle free solution, although one I feel is substantially inferior to what is available.

At the end of the day Amir uses this forum to promote technological excellence in the field of audio and time after time AVRs are found to be wanting, and from what I can gather for no good reason, simply poor implementation of DAC chips.

My 2 cents as they say ...... 11.30pm here in Oz, time for bed!

 

[Narnian]

I picked up a 3800 this morning and set it up. So far nobody has been injured or died.

Sounds nice to me, but then again, I have some high level hearing loss.

Hopefully in about a week I will be getting a DAC in that tested here at 120db SINAD and will see if I can hear any difference in stereo.

I must amend my previous post. I watched a movie last night and it sounded very good. Unfortunately lots of people were injured and died.

 

[will.b]

5.1 and 7.1 is available as TrueHD or DD+. But Atmos is not available, or very limited.

And playback and decoding does not make it an AVR. Your supposed to be able to hook up other video sources as well and decode that audio.

Not used it but there is "Dolby Access": https://www.dolby.com/Gaming/
Available for Windows PCs: https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/dolby-access/9N0866FS04W8?hl=en-us&gl=us

 

[voodooless]

Thanks for your reply.

I appreciate Atmos not being available would be a deterrent for some, however, my primary interest is music

Basically all multichannel streaming audio is in Atmos. So if your source is that rather than spinning discs, that is an issue as well.

 

[Music707]

DEI's Sound United organization is an audio electronics division which includes Denon, Marantz, Boston Acoustics, and HEOS by Denon (under D+M Group); Polk Audio; and Definitive Technology, Bowers & Wilkins.

Yes, the supply chain issues and the AKM fire sucked, but a company of this size, scale and design capability could have -- and should have -- done a better job on this product's DAC.

Are most buyers and users of this product likely to hear or realize a difference or dificiency? Probably not. But from a value proposition for a unit of this cost one deserves better DAC performance than what can be bought in a separate DAC for $75.

What multichannel DAC is there for $75?

I get your point but stereo (if that is what you have in mind) covers only a part of an AVR's capabilities and, as a consequence, cost.