Chord DAVE Review (DAC & HP Amp)

[amirm]

Okay but even at 110db SPL you only need 200mw @ 2v RMS. Does Dave not able to output 200mw into 22ohms?

Where did you get 110 dBSPL? And what exactly does that number mean to you? You sure you watched the video?

 

[chesebert]

Where did you get 110 dBSPL? And what exactly does that number mean to you? You sure you watched the video?

85db nominal with 25db headroom.

I will go through the video later.

 

[Garrincha]

Nothing is more boring than DACs. They reached commodity point long ago. Audiophiles still want new stuff to fiddle with though, so they keep stuffing them in new boxes

Exactly, spending thousands of dollars on minor or mostly non-existing differences, while neglecting the points where differences really exist and matter, like EQ on headphones or the choice of a headphone in the first place.

 

[MAB]

85db nominal with 25db headroom.

I will go through the video later.

I typically go through the video first.

 

[Sharpi31]

The big 400V 150uF cap visible in the SMPS is a United Chemicon PAG series (2000hrs life at 105 degrees C). As discussed the working life will be much longer if temps are lower.

But 2000hrs is pretty much rock bottom. Plenty caps available with 7000-10000hrs lifespan at 105 degrees C.

This tells me everything I need to know.

 

[TNT]

I'm not impressed by the filter - in my book (and in the red, I presume), the filter should be down say 130 dB at Fs/2 - here it is -45.

//

 

[JSmith]

The big 400V 150uF cap visible in the SMPS is a United Chemicon PAG series (2000hrs life at 105 degrees C).

Bingo, page 217;

https://www.chemi-con.co.jp/en/catalog/pdf/al-e/al-all-e1001u-2020.pdf

PAG Low profile, for input filtering Radial 105℃ 2,000 hours +R 200 to 450

Made in either China or Indonesia... not the UK is it?


JSmith

 

[oscar_dziki]

It has literally worse performance than $450 amp\DAC's like jds element 3, or sabaj. That's not even funny. What is funny though, is a large number of audio reviewers praising this junk. @amirm , please don't say you try not to take price into consideration. Price - performance is the most important factor. If this hardware would cost $100 i would love it

 

[Ken Tajalli]

The big 400V 150uF cap visible in the SMPS is a United Chemicon PAG series (2000hrs life at 105 degrees C). As discussed the working life will be much longer if temps are lower.

But 2000hrs is pretty much rock bottom. Plenty caps available with 7000-10000hrs lifespan at 105 degrees C.

This tells me everything I need to know.

@ 105 C and @ max. ripple current and rated voltage !
at half ripple current and half temperature and less than rated voltage, life span is much much higher.
I guess 20k hours from experience .
Find a report on a Dave with a failed PSU cap.
of course the odd component can go poof in any device, any make.

 

[JSmith]

@ 105 C and @ max. ripple current and rated voltage !
at half ripple current and half temperature and less than rated voltage, life span is much much higher.
I guess 20k hours from experience .

I think most are aware of the above... what @Sharpi31 is getting at is in a $14K device, one would expect this product to be overbuilt and thus higher rated parts.

Find a report on a Dave with a failed PSU cap.

Me thinks you may need to do a little Googling... from what I was reading last night, there have been quite a few going back to Chord over the years.


JSmith

 

[Sharpi31]

20K hours is not much more than 2yrs (if powered up 24/7)….

Look at Nichicon UCY series: 10000-12000hrs @ 105 degrees, approx 50% higher max ripple current, same general increase is lifespan if used at lower voltage/temp/ripple. Nothing special about UCY series - first one I checked.

Electrolytic caps are often the component with shortest working life within a hifi component. It’s not unreasonable to expect a manufacturer to use the best electrolytic caps within a £14K DAC, to ensure the customer gets the longest product lifespan possible.

Have a look at the Extron XPA1002 reviewed recently. Engineered to last, so uses long life Rubycon and Nichicon caps (no surprise). Then take a look at the Dave with its expensive milled aluminium case and low spec electrolytics.….. What do you think Chord has focussed on here?

 

[Ken Tajalli]

I think most are aware of the above... what @Sharpi31 is getting at is in a $14K device, one would expect this product to be overbuilt and thus higher rated parts.

Me thinks you may need to do a little Googling... from what I was reading last night, there have been quite a few going back to Chord over the years.


JSmith

I did a quick Google, couldn't find anything.
Do you have any links? outside of ASR.
As I have said, 14K is what I pay for my car, not my DAC - yeah it is too much!
Regarding some folks upgrading the power supply (The Farad Saga!), they must have very deep pockets indeed.
This brings us to a post I submitted at Head-fi regarding this upgrade directly at Rob Watts himself!
I accused him that it is all his fault! until he releases a Dave2 (perhaps 3) a two or three box version, one for power supply that can be upgraded, one for clock generator and one for DAC, and charge over £20K for it. Some people with deep pockets need their load lightened, and he should do it.
But he was adamant that the factory PSU was better or at least as good as any external device, trying in vain to debunk the LPS superiority.

 

[sbsj]

$14000 ? The makers of Chord must be high on drugs ... I won't even pay 1400 for this , considering much much better choices out there

 

[Ken Tajalli]

20K hours is not much more than 2yrs (if powered up 24/7)….

Look at Nichicon UCY series: 10000-12000hrs @ 105 degrees, approx 50% higher max ripple current, same general increase is lifespan if used at lower voltage/temp/ripple. Nothing special about UCY series - first one I checked.

Electrolytic caps are often the component with shortest working life within a hifi component. It’s not unreasonable to expect a manufacturer to use the best electrolytic caps within a £14K DAC, to ensure the customer gets the longest product lifespan possible.

Have a look at the Extron XPA1002 reviewed recently. Engineered to last, so uses long life Rubycon and Nichicon caps (no surprise). Then take a look at the Dave with its expensive milled aluminium case and low spec electrolytics.….. What do you think Chord has focussed on here?

Manufacturers always do a study before going into production, it was decided to use that cap. for its size, life and the amount of power and temperature it is exposed to.
Again I am waiting for someone to straighten me out on any known issues on Chord DACs failures, but batteries on mojo.
The 14K clause of your argument is valid, it is a lot. I have not even been near a DAVE! let alone buy one or defend one.
Chord is confident enough to give 5 year warranty on it.
All I am saying is that in my experience, Chord DACs build quality is second to none! I have not seen better. I am aware of no common issues regarding reliability.
And they do repair anything, quickly and cheaply.
Expensive, you bet ya!

 

[solderdude]

Good god that’s loud.

2mw to get to 90db SPL and 20mw to get to 100db SPL.

Only continuous sound/noise levels at 100dB is loud (you know the familiar 'fire engine at xx meters) which also is dBA.

At 99dB/V you need just over 1V in 23Ω to get to 100dB peak = around 45mW.
For 110dB you need 3.5V = 0.5W
Dave can reach 5V so 113dB peak SPL at the onset of clipping.
Those that like to occasionally and briefly turn it up impressively loud will find peaks to be clipped.

A $ 150 Topping L30 can reach 9V with even less distortion.
One would not expect the Dave to have a mediocre 'afterthought' headphone amp section at $ 14k.

There is an undocumented "HF Filter" which company recommends leaving on except when using their M-scaler. Here is its effect:

I found it funny that the Dave is recommended to be used with a slow roll-off filter engaged as is and that needs to be switched off when using the M-scaler (so it has more upper treble). That's how the extra M-scaler gets it 'better' impulse response ?

 

[AudioSceptic]

Chord’s prices, by and large, are not at the upper reaches of the market either—not compared to MSB, dCS, etc.

Indeed. IMO Chord has been getting an unfair bashing here. Let's save our vitriol for the real charlatans.

 

[staticV3]

A $ 150 Topping L30 can reach 9V with even less distortion.

Only if you can find an RCA DAC with 3Vrms output though. With normal 2Vrms DACs, the L30 is gain limited to 6Vrms output.

 

[AudioSceptic]

There are countless fabless ic manufacturers. What’s your point?

I'm sorry. It seems my feeble attempt at satire wasn't good enough.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

I found it funny that the Dave is recommended to be used with a slow roll-off filter engaged as is and that needs to be switched off when using the M-scaler (so it has more upper treble). That's how the extra M-scaler gets it 'better' impulse response ?

I am guessing, so I could be wrong.
Here is what I think:
- Chord various filters are not various reconstruction filters, they are but gentle supersonic filters, with no effect on after brickwall filter response , unlike standard DAC filters.
- Chord only implements these filters to clean up the supersonics in HiRes recordings, otherwise they have almost no effect up to 19kHz or so.
- Since mScaler, artificially upscales everything to HiRes sampling rates, the filters are not needed, and may interfere, so Chord recommends switching them off.

 

[JSmith]

Do you have any links?

Well it seems to be common knowledge here and same post here;

...the Chord, as can be read on forums, are also failing now and then and repaired by Chord...

... unless this poster was being misleading, which isn't as probable, but possible I suppose.

Regarding some folks upgrading the power supply (The Farad Saga!)

Those threads are about that too actually. Seem the theory is to prevent any internal failures, by using the external PSU.


JSmith