The REAL Problem of March Audio's Sointuva WG (Review, Measurements and Reinforcements with Klippel device)

[Massimo]

I got some new answers from Marchaudio.

View attachment 216512

Alan March stated that he tests and measures all speakers prior to shipping. Please ask him to provide the measurements for the speakers sent to Nuyes. If he is not able to provide these measurements, he has zero credibility.

 

[Postlan]

Alan March stated that he tests and measures all speakers prior to shipping. Please ask him to provide the measurements for the speakers sent to Nuyes. If he is not able to provide these measurements, he has zero credibility.

Each Denon DL103 comes with the measurement, but is there any speaker manufacture provides the measurement of each speaker to the customers? They should, especially when they call their products "accurate".

 

[restorer-john]

Each Denon DL103 comes with the measurement, but is there any speaker manufacture provides the measurement of each speaker to the customers? They should, especially when they call their products "accurate".

Would you actually believe it when it came to loudspeakers?

 

[restorer-john]

Each Denon DL103 comes with the measurement

To confirm that, you need (ironically) the Denon (Nippon Columbia) test record and a bit of test gear, along with a ruler flat (after RIAA) EQ stage. A tall order.

A few members here have 'gone the whole hog'. Ask @JP His FR plots on various TOTL carts tend to support the claimed specs.

 

[puppet]

The exact action of any particular insert in any particular hole and material thickness is going to be hard to judge without having it in hand and testing it. The point of the image was to show that in thin material the insert is designed to form a washer behind and clamp the material, in a blind hole it expands outwards. In a through hole you might end up with a bit of both.

Trying to mount a driver with high vibration isolation and securely are two competing factors. Big excursion makes things harder, probably why you don't see it very often in commercial products.

The image you posted doesn't represent the action of the inserts used here. This inserts rubber shoulder expands against the shaft. If the shaft is out of the hole .. so is the expanded portion of the insert. All you need to know is how long the shaft is and match it to the material thickness being used. In the pic's you can see the grey over spray on the insert shafts above the rubber band .. meaning the shafts above the band were out of the hole. The grey area on the shaft above the band represents the amount of movement possible after the insert has been torqued.

I don't know how much bearing the torque value of the drivers really is. Some have made the assertion that it is important. All I'm pointing out is if it is in fact important, I'd be using a different fastener combination for the reasons I've stated. This combination is most likely the reason for the varying torque values mentioned by the OP. At the very least one would want the drivers to stay put using more than friction.

 

[tmtomh]

Everyone here on ASR knows what you have uncovered and highlighted is significant and is representative of the products being delivered by the person concerned.

What is your evidence for this assertion?

 

[AdamG]

Let’s keep the Personal interaction Drama to a very minimal level. A few posts that just went too far into relationship drama have been deleted.

 

[AudioJester]

What is your evidence for this assertion?

Have you read this thread, looked at the pics and measurements, seen how the customer and reviewer were treated?
Have you seen how March behaved and still behaves on this forum with puppet accounts?
You stll think he is legit?

 

[goat76]

Have you read this thread, looked at the pics and measurements, seen how the customer and reviewer were treated?
Have you seen how March behaved and still behaves on this forum with puppet accounts?
You stll think he is legit?

How was the customer treated in this case? Wasn't he compensated for the non-sealed speaker connections, and didn't he and the seller come to an agreement that the buyer himself would fix that particular problem?

 

[Doodski]

How was the customer treated in this case? Wasn't he compensated for the non-sealed speaker connections, and didn't he and the seller come to an agreement that the buyer himself would fix that particular problem?

I agree and I think this debacle has turned into a pissing into the wind contest.

 

[sq225917]

Each Denon DL103 comes with the measurement, but is there any speaker manufacture provides the measurement of each speaker to the customers? They should, especially when they call their products "accurate".

Yup, kef references used to come with a chart, not sure if they still do, that was the reference 203.2 floorstanders, mid noughties.

 

[Doodski]

Yup, kef references used to come with a chart, not sure if they still do, that was the reference 203.2 floorstanders, mid noughties.

KEF rules! I retailed KEF for several years and was a very loyal KEF salesperson that daily strived to create a following of KEF believers and that paid off in spades in the form of my commissions and likewise KEF benefitted greatly too. After I stopped selling KEF and became a electronics repair technician the repair shop was given a KEF repair territory and a service contract. I was overjoyed. I requested a matched pair of 107.2 tweeters for a tri'amp'd speaker project that I had ongoing at the time and KEF graciously provided matched 107.2 tweeters for my personal DIY speakers. That's a great company that recognized my efforts! I have had a long term relationship with KEF and can easily say the company has been excellent to deal with in all aspects.

 

[Holmz]

Have you read this thread, looked at the pics and measurements, seen how the customer and reviewer were treated?
Have you seen how March behaved and still behaves on this forum with puppet accounts?
You still think he is legit?

I am all for tribalism and inclusiveness, but this thread resembles a witch hunt complete with the tiki torches, and ^this^ post is no exception.

Maybe the questions are rhetorical, but I’ll answer the three of them:

Have you read this thread, looked at the pics and measurements, seen how the customer and reviewer were treated?

Yes, yes, and respectfully enough.

Have you seen how March behaved and still behaves on this forum with puppet accounts?

We have an assertion of that, but we also know that he is in the list of people booted off of the forum.

You still think he is legit?

The speakers I heard sounded legit, and Erin’s review showed that my ears still were working as intended.
So there is a major disconnect between this thread’s review and what others have heard.

Are you assuming that Nuyes story is legit?
(And how would we know that for sure in a rational way, and not just based upon emotion and liking the flow of the story?)

 

[Massimo]

Each Denon DL103 comes with the measurement, but is there any speaker manufacture provides the measurement of each speaker to the customers? They should, especially when they call their products "accurate".

It is not necessary in ordinary circumstances to supply measurements. However, in this instance, March called Nuyes a liar and asserted that the speakers measured poorly because they were modified by Nuyes. He also stated in his response to the client: "We test all the speakers, measure and listen to them prior to shipping".

If March's assertion is to be believed, he needs to provide the measurements for these speakers to prove his case. If not, it is March that is the liar not Nuyes.

 

[amirm]

The speakers I heard sounded legit, and Erin’s review showed that my ears still were working as intended.
So there is a major disconnect between this thread’s review and what others have heard.

There is no disconnect. You have no assurance that what you heard and what Erin tested is what the customer received. A reviewer who has tested some 80 speakers showed in every way possible the problems with this speaker. This is far more evidence of problems than you get anywhere else. So you have to be very much inclined to believe what you want to ignore all this.

 

[AudioJester]

I am all for tribalism and inclusiveness, but this thread resembles a witch hunt complete with the tiki torches, and ^this^ post is no exception.

Maybe the questions are rhetorical, but I’ll answer the three of them:



Yes, yes, and respectfully enough.




We have an assertion of that, but we also know that he is in the list of people booted off of the forum.




The speakers I heard sounded legit, and Erin’s review showed that my ears still were working as intended.
So there is a major disconnect between this thread’s review and what others have heard.

Are you assuming that Nuyes story is legit?
(And how would we know that for sure in a rational way, and not just based upon emotion and liking the flow of the story?)

Ok, not going to argue. Happy to respect your opinion, can you do the same?
If we dont share the same view can you stop collectively calling us/me a witch hunt?
This guy called me names, was disrespectful, appropriately banned, and still posts false things under puppet accounts. Makes it hard to work out favourable feedback of his products as it is sometimes him posting.
The funny thing is I was an early supporter and adopter of his amps lol
I also cheered on his speaker design right at the beginning

 

[SDC]

Are the wires just completely different or am I color blind?

tubed red to clear copper huh. Very multiversal, clever trick by MCU(MXXXX Company Universe).


edit, ps: I believe Nuy's honesty, The Purifies I lent him came back in perfect condition and he was so kind during the whole process.

 

[Holmz]

Ok, not going to argue. Happy to respect your opinion, can you do the same?
If we dont share the same view can you stop collectively calling us/me a witch hunt?
This guy called me names, was disrespectful, appropriately banned, and still posts false things under puppet accounts. Makes it hard to work out favourable feedback of his products as it is sometimes him posting.
The funny thing is I was an early supporter and adopter of his amps lol
I also cheered on his speaker design right at the beginning

Yes - will do… understood sir.

There is no disconnect. You have no assurance that what you heard and what Erin tested is what the customer received.

I am not sure whether:

• They left Australia that way
• Whether the customer received them that way
• Or whether the reviewer dug into them to have a peek at the insides… and does not want to say.

So a disconnect happened somewhere in the chain.

• I am familiar with hearing either the same set of speakers a few times, or a few different pairs.
• And I am familiar with Erin’s work.
• I am just not familiar with the reviewer.

I probably would have assurance that if I got a set, that they would be the same as what I heard and what Erin reviewed.

A reviewer who has tested some 80 speakers showed in every way possible the problems with this speaker. This is far more evidence of problems than you get anywhere else.

There was no debate with sealing around the Kryo connectors… that, I 100% believe as undisputed fact.

The rest seemed like it was debatable whether there were problems or not.
and if they are problems, then whether those problems are being mitigated or not, and which ones.

Maybe I am not thinking rationally, as it is not the same as I heard, nor as Erin tested.
(Hence the questions.)

So you have to be very much inclined to believe what you want to ignore all this.

Understand.
Basically I am trying to understand whether the reviewer is believable.
It appears that they might have been disassembled, but the reviewer says that they were not.

It is hard to “ignore all this” or to “believe what you want”, when the two stories are 180 degrees out.
I am neither ignoring it, nor am believing what I want to.
And I would probably not be concerned if I have/had not been thinking long and hard about getting a set.

In Erin‘s review he stated that the speaker had ‘the most resonance treatment he has seen.’
So that is also somewhat at odds with the other reviewer saying it was insufficient.

Maybe like Fox Mulder… “I want to believe.”

 

[amirm]

Basically I am trying to understand whether the reviewer is believable.

What possible motivation would he have to go through this length to document problems? On the other hand I have seen March do everything in his power to hide things.

 

[SDC]

Yes - will do… understood sir.




I am not sure whether:

• They left Australia that way
• Whether the customer received them that way
• Or whether the reviewer dug into them to have a peek at the insides… and does not want to say.

So a disconnect happened somewhere in the chain.

• I am familiar with hearing either the same set of speakers a few times, or a few different pairs.
• And I am familiar with Erin’s work.
• I am just not familiar with the reviewer.

I probably would have assurance that if I got a set, that they would be the same as what I heard and what Erin reviewed.




There was no debate with sealing around the Kryo connectors… that, I 100% believe as undisputed fact.

The rest seemed like it was debatable whether there were problems or not.
and if they are problems, then whether those problems are being mitigated or not, and which ones.

Maybe I am not thinking rationally, as it is not the same as I heard, nor as Erin tested.
(Hence the questions.)



Understand.
Basically I am trying to understand whether the reviewer is believable.
It appears that they might have been disassembled, but the reviewer says that they were not.

It is hard to “ignore all this” or to “believe what you want”, when the two stories are 180 degrees out.
I am neither ignoring it, nor am believing what I want to.
And I would probably not be concerned if I have/had not been thinking long and hard about getting a set.

In Erin‘s review he stated that the speaker had ‘the most resonance treatment he has seen.’
So that is also somewhat at odds with the other reviewer saying it was insufficient.

Maybe like Fox Mulder… “I want to believe.”

It's hard to believe anons over the sea. But in S.Korea we who sent drivers and speakers all know each others name where they work, live, phone number, etc...

The wiring is completely different in two pictures

If Nuy removed the long clear wire and replaced it with short red one and tubed it, for who and why?

He doesn't have time for all that(I have BTW, haha).