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Wilson Audio TuneTot Review (high-end bookshelf speaker)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 364 58.8%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 186 30.0%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 44 7.1%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 25 4.0%

  • Total voters
    619

MrHifiTunes

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thing is people have been designing speakers for more than a hundred years. Everything has been thought of and tried, multiple times, multiple ways. There are no techniques or tricks left to find, anything you can think of has already been done. Probably a long time ago.

This is a speaker for a wealthy person who for whatever reason needs a small speaker, knows enough about hi-fi to know that Wilson are rated, but not enough to know that cost does not always equal performance. Or does not really care about the cost.

A high end magazine rates them, the dealer recommends them, they are affordable (to him) , and they sound fine, so here's my Amex.
There is certainly some truth in what you say. Still it intrigues me that Amir likes the sound of it even it didn't measure well. There is some mismatch then if the "theory" is written in stone.
but it can also be :
- Speakers interact strong with the room. I guess many nowadays have much more reflective rooms then 20-30y ago. Maybe this causes the different perception?

- Someone pointed to the interaction between wide dispersion and the wobbly directivity. Is it taken into account of the 'quotation' of the speaker? Score of 2.3 ??? Maybe one need to fiddle with how the score is "manufactured"?

Just some thoughts. Surely there isn't any groundbreaking discovery to do, but finetuning and evolving is still possible
 

DWI

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Maybe best for a PM, but I did two stints, 75 to 77 part time there, 77 to end 81 full time at the original Wigmore St location (I believe the facade was retained but the building above and behind was razed and rebuilt), then three months in 1998 under the then new owners, before transferring to one of the outlying stores they owned. Now the new owners do seem to attract a different kind of extremely wealthy customer and being a lot older and more timid now, I'm not sure I could deal with them (I thought nothing of happily dealing with titled gentry back then, but 'new rich' attitudes scare me to death (I discovered the hard way when I went to an outlying town how arrogant some are)).
I was down at New Cav today doing some retail next door to KJ and having some lunch, and the Tunetots were in the window. I think they had been edited to bright red for Christmas, in reality they are really rather pretty in a lovely claret colour. The wife did not like the stands, but I knew that. I'm not sure that pretty is a metric that ASR measures. Anyway, we'd done our shopping for the day, so gave them a miss this time.

20211224_133525.jpg
 

MattHooper

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That is some fine writing. Did you say you were a engineer?

Very far from an engineer. I struggle with anything related to electrical engineering, my brain just doesn't seem suited. I work in film post production sound, but my strengths are more creative than technical.
 

Gatordaddy

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Entertaining point from I believe Toole's book: when a group of "blindfolded" classical musicians were played a number of high end violins, most preferred the newer ones and the strads failed to stand out in any respect. There is that sighted bias thingy again.

*I may be exaggerating a bit, but too lazy to look for the source. It's close to the actual findings. I am not sure that the Strads were even identified as such by most.


My takeaway from these experiments has been that modern instruments can equal or outperform those of the cremonese masters. Value of instruments is based primarily on authenticity and collectability, followed by build quality, with playability and sound quality the final factors.

Here is a video of Yehudi Menuhin and another violinist playing what would become the most expensive instrument auctioned at the time (a well preserved Stradivarius). They both look pretty non plussed.

This is all to say that while I value Amir's sighted impressions, it's not surprising that the more visually imposing Tune Tot would end up sounding larger than the M106. Or that a 5db peak at 115hz would give a stronger impression of tactile midbass (even though the Tune Tot has very little actual bass response)
 

bennybbbx

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Since they used simple quasi-anechoic measurements the results are not accurate in the bass region. I don't think there's any foul play going on. The treble response is not that flattering either..

is it with the new measures they do too ?. the early measures from them go only low as 200 hz. see tune tot https://www.hifinews.com/content/wilson-audio-tunetot-loudspeaker-lab-report

now the new speakers they measure from 20 hz upto

i read more about wilson the make stone cases.the tune tot is the cheapest from them. other speakers from wilson cost around 100.000 $. so for 10 times lower price they can not sell a perfect wilson.
 

DSJR

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index.php


Is that a garbage can (bin) next to the left Tunetot, or is it another $10,000 speaker?
I worked there in 1998 for a few months but it wasn't as posh as it is now. They actually sold some affordable gear too (Musical Fidelity X series and some Arcam stereo amps and CD players). Things moved well upwards in prices of gear stocked long after I transferred out of the West End (commuters on the 'BedPan line' all seemed to be in their twenties and I was almost double their age at that point wondering how I did it for some years in the 70's!). I knew of the new owners (the previous owners were either retiring or moving on I gather and one was in Malaisia at least for a few years I believe) but haven't been anywhere near the area for twenty years now (amazing how the buildings don't change much, but the shops change out of all recognition). Apologies all, I'll leave reminiscing further for another time and place.
 

heflys20

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That's a good point too. Just I try to imagine I'm the engineer working for Wilson...would I be happy with the outcome and put my name on it? I'm searing for a positive answer why? They put a lot of effort in it to make it like it is. They put attention to a lot of details, slanted baffle, adjustable spikes, base-floor, adjustable tweeter resistors, foam port, etc....why would they allow such "faulty"bass?
Or is there something broken inside the speaker? Tuning port could be around 8" long from where they ended it, they should have some bend in it somewhere I guess.

Why do you assume that the people at Wilson have integrity and aren't simply concerned with profits?

There is certainly some truth in what you say. Still it intrigues me that Amir likes the sound of it even it didn't measure well.

He didn't recommend it until it was eq'd.
 

Crosstalk

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Why do you assume that the people at Wilson have integrity and aren't simply concerned with profits?



He didn't recommend it until it was eq'd.
Correcting is only mild no?

Good point...So directivity how wobbly and how wide it is goes hand in hand to determine how it will preform.

This one reason I could think of....I may be wrong or right...I dont care...just want to learn and explore why they did it.

That's a good point too. Just I try to imagine I'm the engineer working for Wilson...would I be happy with the outcome and put my name on it? I'm searing for a positive answer why? They put a lot of effort in it to make it like it is. They put attention to a lot of details, slanted baffle, adjustable spikes, base-floor, adjustable tweeter resistors, foam port, etc....why would they allow such "faulty"bass?
Or is there something broken inside the speaker? Tuning port could be around 8" long from where they ended it, they should have some bend in it somewhere I guess.
This is exactly what others had been saying here. You see Wilson and you assume their engineer knows what they are doing. Hi end is snake oil imo. You don’t need anything more than a DSP corrected genelec to listen to music.
 

MerlinGS

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That's a good point too. Just I try to imagine I'm the engineer working for Wilson...would I be happy with the outcome and put my name on it? I'm searing for a positive answer why? They put a lot of effort in it to make it like it is. They put attention to a lot of details, slanted baffle, adjustable spikes, base-floor, adjustable tweeter resistors, foam port, etc....why would they allow such "faulty"bass?
I find it interesting that you assume all of the above are engineering driven. I think a more feasible argument is that they are marketing driven. All of those qualities you listed are more associated with high-end mythology than actual best practices for good speaker design (from an audio engineering perspective, especially according to much of the research cited at ASR). As to why engineers would work at a place where marketing drives much of the design, that is true in most consumer related industries. Regarding WA, that is an interesting company. Its strongest acolytes swore its speakers were the best sounding product for yrs. Yet, about 5-15 yrs ago, WA dramatically changed its house sound, but most of these WA acolytes still claimed their speakers were the best sounding product produced. One would assume that those who preferred the initial WA house sound would be reticent of continuing to embrace WA, but it did not seem to be the case. Is the WA following audio reproduction related? Are there other factors driving its position in the market?

As to Amir's liking of the Tots, it is not totally surprising. He like many others have expressed that they enjoy speakers that are able to reproduce fairly large dynamic swings in music reproduction (he really enjoyed a pair of JBL's that did not measure great, but exhibited great dynamics). I would not be surprised if the Tots are able to handle dynamics better than most speakers its size (good dynamics reproduction does seem to be a sonic pursuit of WA).

Your pursuit to justify the "engineering" decisions for the TuneTots are not based on any facts in evidence, and such argumentation would require some strong evidence in your part to support it, but you do not seem to have either the insider insight (i.e. factually know the engineering goals of WA) or the audio engineering understanding to support your claims. If you seek to understand why many purchasers (and Amir) have expressed positive impressions after hearing the TuneTots, a far better approach to try and understand it would be understanding the flaws of sighted listening (there is a lot of research in this area), the flaws of drawing conclusions from one individual's impression, the role Amir's age may have in expressing preference (Dr. Toole no longer participates in audio evaluation of speakers because he recognizes the quality of his hearing has diminished with age), a personal preference for the excellent dynamics the TuneTots exhibit, and so on.

PS There is a question that has not been raised, but I think may be very pertinent in speaker preference. How the manner in which we listen to music affects speaker preference; i.e. the role of Fletcher-Munson Curve in our perceived preferences. @DWI has stated that he prefers to listen to music at low volumes. Assuming all other factors are equal, would he not prefer a speaker that tilts its frequency response in a manner that in some way addresses our auditory experience as explained by the curve? I think I will start a thread asking this question.
 

rammster

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Aug 11, 2020
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Who, where and when did I offended?

What was the core message of sentence below? I mean, true meaning?
look how many pages are filled already with people who didnt ever hear the speaker.

If one wants to sound friendly, or at least neutral, he should not appeal to personal qualities of opponents and devalue their opinion based on that.
Maybe I am overreacting, but I do not like arguments like "get it first, then talk".
And phrase "pages filled with people" sounds a bit harsh, in my opinion.

English is not my native language too, so let's assume I got you wrong ))
 

MrHifiTunes

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Why do you assume that the people at Wilson have integrity and aren't simply concerned with profits?
Why you think they are not? Why think the worsted? Someone like to have some proud in the product they make no? Sure they have some management who are concerned about the profits. But if you could work in a company like this as an engineer Im sure you would like to make the best to your ability. Look also to all the other design details they pay so much attention too.
He didn't recommend it until it was eq'd.
He didn't dislike it either but was very depending on what he played.
Whats weird is that when he closed the port he said there is was no bass, while in the graph it is a mild bump. Then he EQ-ed it with open port down 6db.... That would be even less bass no?
index.php



Looking at their portfolio (mostly very big speakers) maybe this one is to satisfy their customers to have something small in a second room for playing background music. Maybe the bump is more pleasing to listen too at low and very low levels.
 

DWI

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This is exactly what others had been saying here. You see Wilson and you assume their engineer knows what they are doing. Hi end is snake oil imo. You don’t need anything more than a DSP corrected genelec to listen to music.
It's not about need, it's about desire.
 

heflys20

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Why you think they are not? Why think the worsted? Someone like to have some proud in the product they make no? Sure they have some management who are concerned about the profits. But if you could work in a company like this as an engineer Im sure you would like to make the best to your ability. Look also to all the other design details they pay so much attention too.
Design details? Most of that is marketing gibberish designed to sell speakers. As to why I think they're not, the evidence is abundant. If the speaker can't even measure properly in a free-field environment, how the heck do they expect it to measure 65-25khz +/- 3db in the average room? I keep asking: Are they incompetent, or did they do this intentionally? Which is it? You can't argue that they're competent when the speaker measures poorly.

The owners probably tell their engineers what they want, and keep asking them to make adjustments until they're satisfied with sound. Something that stands out. Something that will sell.

I'm not sure why this is difficult to conceive, unless you're arguing that they really aren't that good at engineering speakers.
 

DSJR

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Well, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em seems to be the mantra. Naim have had annual price rises regardless over the years (they had one just recently) and now Linn have announced HUGE rises Jan 1st (a not wonderful tonearm which I remember was around £200 back in the early 90's became several hundred by the late 90's in 'structurally improved' form and it's going to be fifty quid short of £2k as of 2022). These two makes are still cheap in real audiophool high end terms but still massively expensive for what's inside and in my opinion, largely the performance on offer today. They seem to have enough fans out there to keep them alive, so what the heck do I know when they exist to increase prices regularly regardless...

I think it's very sad actually, but that's just me.
 

MrHifiTunes

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What was the core message of sentence below? I mean, true meaning?


If one wants to sound friendly, or at least neutral, he should not appeal to personal qualities of opponents and devalue their opinion based on that.
Maybe I am overreacting, but I do not like arguments like "get it first, then talk".
And phrase "pages filled with people" sounds a bit harsh, in my opinion.

English is not my native language too, so let's assume I got you wrong ))
you should like at the context. It was a reply on someone who said that a blind listeningtest would be good. And I agree on that...the pages full of people who never listen to the speaker is also applicable to myself. That is just a fact. We are all talking what we think is true, but we dont know.

Why you didnt react to this post?
14 people need to explain their vote lol
Screenshot_20211224-000417.jpg

and :
Likely drunk or wanted to punk the survey. No one in their right mind gives those msmts a glance, and gives it a thumbs up. I suspect there is a whole host of 500/pr speakers that measure better. Recently theres been a spate of these--the Hegel Integrated and the forget the name but a multichannel amp that didn't have the gas, and Audioholic's Gene got involved and what a mess, the maker blaming a transformer mix up, etc.


====
And to be honest, I think this speaker is designed like that as an answer to their customers. Look at their portfolio. Many big and very big speakers. I can imagine that some of their customers ask to make something small for the kitchen or bathroom. Something to play some background music. I think many may like this under those conditions..Low volume background music....maybe more then a speaker with flat FR where quiet quickly the bass becomes lacking under those conditions.

But we all are different and have different preferences.... And we probably think what we would buy if we had 10k to spent.
I wouldnt spent it on hifi gear...
 

DWI

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I find it interesting that you assume all of the above are engineering driven. I think a more feasible argument is that they are marketing driven. All of those qualities you listed are more associated with high-end mythology than actual best practices for good speaker design (from an audio engineering perspective, especially according to much of the research cited at ASR). As to why engineers would work at a place where marketing drives much of the design, that is true in most consumer related industries. Regarding WA, that is an interesting company. Its strongest acolytes swore its speakers were the best sounding product for yrs. Yet, about 5-15 yrs ago, WA dramatically changed its house sound, but most of these WA acolytes still claimed their speakers were the best sounding product produced. One would assume that those who preferred the initial WA house sound would be reticent of continuing to embrace WA, but it did not seem to be the case. Is the WA following audio reproduction related? Are there other factors driving its position in the market?

As to Amir's liking of the Tots, it is not totally surprising. He like many others have expressed that they enjoy speakers that are able to reproduce fairly large dynamic swings in music reproduction (he really enjoyed a pair of JBL's that did not measure great, but exhibited great dynamics). I would not be surprised if the Tots are able to handle dynamics better than most speakers its size (good dynamics reproduction does seem to be a sonic pursuit of WA).

Your pursuit to justify the "engineering" decisions for the TuneTots are not based on any facts in evidence, and such argumentation would require some strong evidence in your part to support it, but you do not seem to have either the insider insight (i.e. factually know the engineering goals of WA) or the audio engineering understanding to support your claims. If you seek to understand why many purchasers (and Amir) have expressed positive impressions after hearing the TuneTots, a far better approach to try and understand it would be understanding the flaws of sighted listening (there is a lot of research in this area), the flaws of drawing conclusions from one individual's impression, the role Amir's age may have in expressing preference (Dr. Toole no longer participates in audio evaluation of speakers because he recognizes the quality of his hearing has diminished with age), a personal preference for the excellent dynamics the TuneTots exhibit, and so on.

PS There is a question that has not been raised, but I think may be very pertinent in speaker preference. How the manner in which we listen to music affects speaker preference; i.e. the role of Fletcher-Munson Curve in our perceived preferences. @DWI has stated that he prefers to listen to music at low volumes. Assuming all other factors are equal, would he not prefer a speaker that tilts its frequency response in a manner that in some way addresses our auditory experience as explained by the curve? I think I will start a thread asking this question.
As I sit here with my wife listening to a record (Ryo Fukui Live in New York) through a pair of Wilson speakers, I wonder if we live on the same audio planet.

Last December we went to the audio store to buy speakers because my wife hated the good-sounding wooden boxes in our living room, and the audio was about to move to another room, not yet built. The discussion was around the size of the room, the colour scheme, the type of music we like, the listening level we prefer, delivery times. Things we did NOT discuss were Fletcher-Munson, frequency response, dispersion, or anything technical. We did NOT discuss brands, we did NOT discuss design philosophies, we did NOT discuss marketing, we did NOT even discuss price. We had some speakers for a home trial, another brand that the dealer thought I would like but didn't, and the Wilson we listened to in the store. For most of that visit my wife was next door buying a dress, but she sat down and listened to some music of her choice - for about 10 minutes. So we bought the speakers and went to lunch - Japanese fusion. The dealer came round a few days later with the speakers and took the old ones away.

I really know nothing about Wilson other than there are from western USA somewhere, Utah I think. I had heard their speakers before, so was pleased my wife liked them.

Speaking to my dealer, this is a fairly normal sales experience. When I've been to the store, usually for dealer demonstrations, it is often couples. We have spent all afternoon at home listening to music and reading.

This may not be how you choose speakers, but it is how we ended up buying Wilson speakers - and it could have been one of several brands - and I understand I am a pretty average customer (although relatively low-end for that dealer).

So my experience as a customer is that they make speakers that look good, sound good, suit our home and are retailed very professionally. People go into shops and buy them, like we did. It's not very complicated.
 

Purité Audio

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Marketing triumphing over actual technical performance, kind of the norm within the high end.
Did the dealer acoustically measure your room?
Keith
 
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