ZMF Atticus Review (Headphone)

[Francis Vaughan]

I cannot represent their differential correctly in measurements.

You sure you can't?
The last round of discussion was IMHO inconclusive, partly because there were other confounding factors.
One pair of new headphones, a set of various pads, stock and after market with clear differences in construction or mechanical properties. I really don't believe that the setup you have has such large variability as to not be able to usefully characterise gross variability in pads if they exist. IMHO there are some gross variabilities, and a lot of inconsequential ones. The porosity of the inner side of the pads is likely to be the dominant question, and that will control the absorption of energy by the pads. This will probably influence both a general slope of the response and more importantly may damp the nature of at least one resonant peak or trough. As I wrote earlier, the Delkoni graphs do show a familial correlation of responses with porosity. I don't think that can be dismissed as measurement error alone.

OTOH, the whining here about the pads is almost certainly inconsequential. If there was no obvious difference between the pads provided there is unlikely to be any meaningful response variation attributable to different pads. There is no way any pad design can fix the major flaws apparent here, and moaning about invalidating the measurements is way over the top.

 

[solderdude]

As independent measurements show (using Eikon pads that differ from the leather ones that were fitted on this one) this was NOT an issue in this particular case.
That does not mean pads there can be substantial differences between pads.
Pads and their physical conditions can create differences above measurements error and positioning certain headphones differently can lead to substantial differences (so does seal) and can be quite audible as well.
None of this doesn't invalidate this particular measurement.

Amir measures what he is served and makes choices on how to do that, how much time is spent on it and what to display. It's a fact of ASR life.

 

[MayaTlab]

On subjective front, every time I wear a headphone, it goes on a bit different. This would show up as clear response differences in measurements yet I do not hear or perceive them.

This is something that I tried to quantify in some way because at least with some headphones (certainly not all) I wasn't hearing such noticeable changes when moving them forward / backwards / lower / higher than normal, and I certainly wasn't hearing much significance when repeatedly putting them on or off. Turns out that it might be because there wasn't such a strong difference to start with ?

Using this : https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-24-review-headphone.23949/page-8#post-814497
And performing a quick check on my own head by deliberately mis-positioning my HD650 and HD560S I'm getting this :

While the differences are there they seem less important than the issue of pad compression. I have a feeling that our individual anatomy may more or less constrain how we can realistically wear headphones before they break seal in an obvious way or even fall off (vs. a rig like GRAS' hammers or the MiniDSP Ear), and perhaps our sense of touch + the headphones' design (click adjustment mechanisms ?) and my OCD may help in positioning headphones in a way that is constantly comfortable for me each and every time ?
Performing repeated seatings in the "normal" position, this is the two traces furthest apart that I could find during the same measurement session :

Not that this is not an issue for other headphones. I'm having quite a bit of trouble with my K371 in that regard. But at least with these two I find the rear / foward / high / low positional variance less of an issue than pad compression. Or pad changes for that matter, this is with in-concha mics (so no valid data for comparative results above a few kHz, and obviously useless in absolute terms above 800-1000Hz and below 50hz or so), original somewhat fresh pads for my HD650 vs. Dekoni Elite Velour :

 

[don'ttrustauthority]

One of the most valued headphones by fans and apparently also highly overrated.

$$$$ = Overvalued

How did you scientifically measure how valued it the headphone is or what constitutes a member of the set 'fans'?

 

[Fernando]

How did you scientifically measure how valued it the headphone is or what constitutes a member of the set 'fans'?

Using a complicated logarithm with data from head-fi and other forums specialized in snake oil.

 

[AVKS]

Using a complicated logarithm with data from head-fi and other forums specialized in snake oil.

It's entirely possible for people to enjoy a variety of sound signatures and still also appreciate balance among them. I say this as I'm sitting here greatly enjoying my LCD-2 closed's larger and thicker presentation, and difference in sound signature, relative to the Aeon Closed RTs. I also enjoy the balance those AC RTs can offer and wiill likely listen to those later.

No question that the LCDs color the sound but so what? For headphones like the Atticus is the issue that people enjoy it at all or more that the perception might be that popular = accurate sound?

 

[Fernando]

It's entirely possible for people to enjoy a variety of sound signatures and still also appreciate balance among them. I say this as I'm sitting here greatly enjoying my LCD-2 closed's larger and thicker presentation, and difference in sound signature, relative to the Aeon Closed RTs. I also enjoy the balance those AC RTs can offer and wiill likely listen to those later.

No question that the LCDs color the sound but so what? For headphones like the Atticus is the issue that people enjoy it at all or more that the perception might be that popular = accurate sound?

Totally agree.
I also enjoy my LCD2. (with EQ)
The problem is when someone tries to sell something that does not exist or cannot be measured with deception and exoteric methods.

 

[don'ttrustauthority]

Using a complicated logarithm with data from head-fi and other forums specialized in snake oil.

So you record price data which you have ready to support your hypothesis about the valuation and resale frequency of these headphones, since you base your opinion of them on science, you must have a scientific basis for your opinion no?

 

[Fernando]

So you record price data which you have ready to support your hypothesis about the valuation and resale frequency of these headphones, since you base your opinion of them on science, you must have a scientific basis for your opinion no?

Do you know what irony is?

 

[solderdude]

Do you know what irony is?

Something that looks and feels like, but isn't, iron ?

 

[Fernando]

Something that looks and feels like, but isn't, iron ?

 

[solderdude]

ohhhh.. the irony

 

[Francis Vaughan]

The irony being that nothing in the song was ironic.

 

[solderdude]

did it make the song iconic ?

 

[Francis Vaughan]

did it make the song iconic ?

In the strictest meaning, no.
But in terms of underlying the gulf in understanding of irony across the Atlantic, probably.

 

[don'ttrustauthority]

Stock means from the manufacturer and intended to be used with the headphone, if they are not stock then it means they are aftermarket. If you are saying that the manufacturer provides 3 different pads with this headphone when they sell this model then that is what Amir should say. Stock pads mean provided from the manufacturer of that headphone and intended for that headphone. Sloppy descriptions re pads and sloppy knowledge of whether the pads are as intended & as sold by the manufacturer is not a credit to this site.!

Is this an opinion or do you have a source that the definition of 'stock' is what you claim it to be?

 

[don'ttrustauthority]

I think Zach's headphones are the finest headphones made in all the land. I hope he follows up and sends you some headphones for testing, but there is a backlog apparantly he can't make them fast enough for customers. I bought mine used which saved on the wait. I love how he studio 54's people to fork over thousands and then fume and wait when you can simply save money ordering used. Of course if you want a particular perishable wood type then you have to order on the click now page when ready.

I really do not, however, appreciate people knocking me because I buy headphones based on appearance. I think it is quite normal and don't understand the snobs who seem to only care about how a headphone sounds. If that's all that matters, just install some sensitive mics in place of your eardrums.

 

[Tachyon88]

I think Zach's headphones are the finest headphones made in all the land. I hope he follows up and sends you some headphones for testing, but there is a backlog apparantly he can't make them fast enough for customers. I bought mine used which saved on the wait. I love how he studio 54's people to fork over thousands and then fume and wait when you can simply save money ordering used. Of course if you want a particular perishable wood type then you have to order on the click now page when ready.

I really do not, however, appreciate people knocking me because I buy headphones based on appearance. I think it is quite normal and don't understand the snobs who seem to only care about how a headphone sounds. If that's all that matters, just install some sensitive mics in place of your eardrums.

You should check out aestheticsciencereview.com then.

 

[Fernando]

I think Zach's headphones are the finest headphones made in all the land. I hope he follows up and sends you some headphones for testing, but there is a backlog apparantly he can't make them fast enough for customers. I bought mine used which saved on the wait. I love how he studio 54's people to fork over thousands and then fume and wait when you can simply save money ordering used. Of course if you want a particular perishable wood type then you have to order on the click now page when ready.

I really do not, however, appreciate people knocking me because I buy headphones based on appearance. I think it is quite normal and don't understand the snobs who seem to only care about how a headphone sounds. If that's all that matters, just install some sensitive mics in place of your eardrums.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../abyss-ab-1266-phi-tc-review-headphone.23411/

 

[Robbo99999]

Is this an opinion or do you have a source that the definition of 'stock' is what you claim it to be?

It's just the English language, and the fact that "stock" implies unmodified. People talk about stock / modified & aftermarket in car domains, and I'm sure in other domains. Stock means unadulterated and as the manufacturer intended. I'm not really gonna give you a dictionary definition, if you require one then you must have a very difficult life understanding the world.