Zero-emission vehicles, their batteries & subsidies/rebates for them.- No politics regarding the subsidies!

[Bob from Florida]

Wow, I’ve never seen anything like that anywhere in Europe.
I’m surprised they even work efficiently that close together!

This is our local wind farm

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4850/32994541588_a28a669e15_b.jpg

Regarding bird hits and wind turbines - just one article out of many. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...ny-pleads-guilty-to-killing-eagles-180979898/

Killing Eagles is extremely bad publicity. Amazingly, the company in the above article could have avoided the fine if they had applied for the proper permit. U.S. Fish and Wildlife commission will issue 10 year permits to wind farms to kill protected birds like eagles. American Indians are not allowed to possess eagle feathers, yet the wind farms can kill them with impunity if they get a permit first. Most folks don't care so much if a pigeon gets killed, but eagles! Consider this facet of wind power and perhaps it is easier to understand why bird lovers get there feathers ruffled.

 

[pseudoid]

So you're a global warming denier then?

EVs can't go to drive-ins, have back seats, get worked on, have an aftermarket, be raced, drive on a road, hang dice from the mirror, be made into a hot wheel, or have bolts that sockets go on to? That many resto-mods are EVs is just my fantasy. But hey, I bet you want that BS stick-shift in an EV, and you run MS DOS because it's a real man's OS.

Synth fuels are horrifically wasteful and expensive to produce. Ethanol is a total boondoggle and environmental nightmare, but at least e85 has a high octane. amiright?

You wanna pick your loser and call it a winner, that's all. You munch on the crusty booger and call it caviar? I guess we can't stop you or even get through to you.

You got me pegged and I should pay you for the psycho-analysis.
Though, I was under the impression that ad-hominem attacks/insults were not part of teletext psycho-analysis.
You say I am picking 'losers/winners' but at least I am not on a hunt to cherry-pick anyone else's words and smack them on the face with them.
As I recall, my post ended with YMMV since I was aiming for some dialog about cultural changes. Instead, I received snark remarks about stick-shifts being bullsh*t and other deflections.
WTF is a 'global warming denier" anyways? Do dogs come running to attack bcuz of such silly pointed attacks?

 

[FrantzM]

We are catching up. Solar accounted for over 45% of all new generating capacity in 2022, despite import constraints. Adding wind makes 69%. Important for the nuclear fans to note the scale: this is equal to 18+ new large nuclear sites. A year. Compare to the potential to build even 2 a year in the US - impossible.

View attachment 270245

Solar Market Insight Report 2022 Q4 | SEIA

The quarterly SEIA/Wood Mackenzie Power & Renewables U.S. Solar Market Insight report shows the major trends in the U.S. solar industry. Learn more about the U.S. Solar Market Insight Report. Released December 13, 2022.

www.seia.org

This is most interesting. Compelling..
This quote from the people's choice for Billionaires-you-love-to-hate: Elon Musk

“If you wanted to power the entire United States with solar panels, it would take a fairly small corner of Nevada or Texas or Utah,” he explained. “You only need about 100 miles by 100 miles of solar panels to power the entire United States….

Of course He conveniently forgot about storage but ...

The US did tackle immense projects such as the Hoover Dam during the era of the Slide Rule. The USA have the means and land to tackle such mega projects at a national level... In the current US political climate, perhaps this is unlikely; meanwhile, India, China, the World are not waiting ..
Largest Solar Plants


Peace.

 

[blueone]

Such an oppressive impact on the landscape would not be approved nowadays (at least I hope). The wind farm could have been founded around the year 1990-2000 - I have not found exact details.

However, these turbines do not have much in common with the current state of wind energy technology. On average, the 4000 wind turbines have a capacity of 0.09 MW each ( largest of these windmills stands 150 feet tall).

For comparison, here is a modern wind farm near my home with one of the largest on-shore wind turbines in the world - 246 m (807 ft) tall and 6 MW capacity per turbine.
View attachment 270305
The wind turbines must not be so close to each other at all, as they will locally reduce the wind speed and take energy away from each other if they are placed too close.

I've been to that area near Palm Springs many times, and the turbines are not as close together as they appear in the photo. I think the reason for the apparent closeness is that the photo was shot with a telephoto lens.

And, yes, the Palm Springs turbines are old technology. I remember them from over 20 years ago.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I wonder how many birds are killed by cars every year? Or by large windows? A bit ridiculous to me. I've no interest in prioritizing the lives of birds over our own if it requires avoiding technology.

 

[blueone]

I wonder how many birds are killed by cars every year? Or by large windows? A bit ridiculous to me. I've no interest in prioritizing the lives of birds over our own if it requires avoiding technology.

The Sierra Club does not have a lot of credibility with me, but they claim in the US 89-340 million birds per years are killed in vehicle collisions. The more I read their website the less credible they seem.

How Many Birds Die From Motor Vehicles?

Mr. Green navigates to the answer.

www.sierraclub.org

 

[Blumlein 88]

The Sierra Club does not have a lot of credibility with me, but they claim in the US 89-340 million birds per years are killed in vehicle collisions. The more I read their website the less credible they seem.

How Many Birds Die From Motor Vehicles?

Mr. Green navigates to the answer.

www.sierraclub.org

The upper end of the range would be more than one per year per driver. Yes too
ridiculous to be credible.

 

[j_j]

They are about a hundred billion times less ugly than an oil well or coal mine.

Boy howdy, you can say that again. Coming from the land of (former) steel mills, coal mines, and mountaintop removals, I have to say that calling a wind turbine "ugly" is pretty lame.

As to "birds", let's count the birds who die when the mountaintops are moved. How about the shore birds that die when sea level encroaches, etc.

I agree, there are a bunch of excuses that just make no sense, unless there's some other agenda.

We also have some issues with the DPC being able to get your solar for a huge discount in many places, and then sell it back to you at market. It's all about "making money" and not about "wrecking the environment" from the various DPC's.

 

[blueone]

The upper end of the range would be more than one per year per driver. Yes too
ridiculous to be credible.

Especially since these guys think there's only 7 billion birds in North America.

There are 3 billion fewer birds in North America than there were in 1970

North America has lost nearly 3 billion birds since 1970, a study says. It found significant population declines among hundreds of bird species.

www.usatoday.com

 

[blueone]

Of course He conveniently forgot about storage but ...

And transmission.

 

[j_j]

And transmission.

Indeed, with the upset about transmission lines, etc, that's become a major problem.

 

[blueone]

Boy howdy, you can say that again. Coming from the land of (former) steel mills, coal mines, and mountaintop removals, I have to say that calling a wind turbine "ugly" is pretty lame.

As to "birds", let's count the birds who die when the mountaintops are moved. How about the shore birds that die when sea level encroaches, etc.

I agree, there are a bunch of excuses that just make no sense, unless there's some other agenda.

Agreed. It's the agenda to stop all development that interferes with wilderness or wildlife. I understand the motivation, but I think it's a short-sighted and dangerous agenda.

 

[ctrl]

I wonder how many birds are killed by cars every year? Or by large windows? A bit ridiculous to me. I've no interest in prioritizing the lives of birds over our own if it requires avoiding technology.

What can be said with absolute certainty is that wind turbines are really the least of all problems for birds in America, even if their numbers multiply. If birds could, they would snuff out all the house cats.

1. Vehicles: It is estimated that in the United States each year, 89 million to 340 million birds are killed by vehicles. This number varies depending on which study is cited and what methods were used to make the estimates. One of the most well-known studies was conducted by the Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute, which estimated in 2014 that 169 million birds are killed each year in the United States by vehicles.

Source: Loss, S. R., & Will, T. (2019). Estimates of bird collision mortality at wind facilities in the contiguous United States. Biological conservation, 237, 230-239.

1. House cats: It is estimated that between 1.3 billion and 4 billion birds die each year in the United States due to house cats. A study by Peter Marra and Chris Santella in 2016 estimated that house cats are responsible for the deaths of up to 3.7 billion birds in the United States.

Source: Marra, P. P., & Santella, C. (2016). Cat Wars: The Devastating Consequences of a Cuddly Killer. Princeton University Press.

1. Wind turbines: According to a study by Scott Loss and Tom Will, approximately 140,000 birds die each year in the United States due to wind turbines. However, the 2019 study also shows that this number is comparatively low compared to other human activities that kill birds.

Source: Loss, S. R., & Will, T. (2019). Estimates of bird collision mortality at wind facilities in the contiguous United States. Biological conservation, 237, 230-239.

1. Windows: It is estimated that between 365 million and 1 billion birds die each year in the United States due to windows. A study by Scott Loss, Tom Will, and Peter Marra in 2014 estimated that up to 988 million birds collide with windows each year.

Source: Loss, S. R., Will, T., & Marra, P. P. (2014). Direct human-caused mortality of birds: improving quantification of magnitude and assessment of population impact. Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment, 12(5), 246-252.

 

[j_j]

Agreed. It's the agenda to stop all development that interferes with wilderness or wildlife. I understand the motivation, but I think it's a short-sighted and dangerous agenda.

Around here it's FIRE DANGER CANCER STOP ELECTRICITY. There was a year-long battle about smart meters causing cancer.

Yeah, 10 milliwatts once every 4 hours emitted from a meter 30 feet away from the nearest person. But the beat goes on.

 

[kongwee]

Wind turbine kill birds, pollute soil with lubricant, noise chase animals away. The way Americans propaganda works. Write thousand of article in office and present it as evidence. Mainstream medias opinion are even more important than facts and findings. Debate the hell of it. For more than a decade wind turbine is not an issue in other part of the world.

Back to birds, are you sure they have the body evidences and make it is killed by wind turbine. That is in thousands samples.

 

[pseudoid]

I wonder how many birds are killed by cars every year?

BTW, the bird death controversy is difficult to put into perspective.

Personally speaking, I've had 5 dates with birds (all dearly-departed), along w/a costly deer-meeting and a single rabbit-trick!
I am also known for intentional bug-genocide at sustained speeds.
That's a lot of wasted protein but, at least, CAFE' gross-polluter rule does not apply to my manual 6.0Liter equipped with CAGS (aka 1>4 'skip-shift').
But even a paperclip can skip the skip-shift.

 

[j_j]

Personally speaking, I've had 5 dates with birds (all dearly-departed), along w/a costly deer-meeting and a single rabbit-trick!
I am also known for intentional bug-genocide at sustained speeds.
That's a lot of wasted protein but, at least, CAFE' gross-polluter rule does not apply to my manual 6.0Liter equipped with CAGS (aka 1>4 'skip-shift').
But even a paperclip can skip the skip-shift.

You're doing much better than I am. I've had at least 15 dates with birds in the last 50 years, maybe 20, several rabbits, and two examples of sudden venison. I have been lucky in that sense since I've only lost two side-view mirrors, one on each side. (why must they jump into the side of my car, tell me?).

As to bugs, well, I have driven in Ohio, Pa, NJ, and the area around Yellowstone and Glacier NP in the evenings. I can't even begin to calculate the bug carnage. Just try driving the Ohio Turnpike or I80 across Pa at dusk.

 

[Chrispy]

Glad ctrl got the cat citation in. I don't have to mention from whom a lot of the nonsense about windmills comes from....

 

[blueone]

Personally speaking, I've had 5 dates with birds (all dearly-departed), along w/a costly deer-meeting and a single rabbit-trick!
I am also known for intentional bug-genocide at sustained speeds.
That's a lot of wasted protein but, at least, CAFE' gross-polluter rule does not apply to my manual 6.0Liter equipped with CAGS (aka 1>4 'skip-shift').
But even a paperclip can skip the skip-shift.

You drive a Corvette?

You can also get rid of the skip shift altogether.

C6 Corvette Skip Shift Eliminator CAGS Fuse - RPIDesigns.com

The CAFE rule isn't for gross polluters. It's for gas guzzlers.

 

[blueone]

Around here it's FIRE DANGER CANCER STOP ELECTRICITY. There was a year-long battle about smart meters causing cancer.

Yeah, 10 milliwatts once every 4 hours emitted from a meter 30 feet away from the nearest person. But the beat goes on.

That smart meter nonsense is the dumbest thing I've ever heard since the last dumbest thing I've ever heard.