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Zero-emission vehicles, their batteries & subsidies/rebates for them.- No politics regarding the subsidies!

Doodski

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The general direction of this thread is for the following examples but not limited to:

Note - Please keep politics out of the thread - Subsidies and lithium as examples can be discussed without involving politics.

Zero emission vehicles include:
  • Battery-electric.
  • Plug-in hybrid electric.
  • Hydrogen fuel cell.
  • Any new technology that you want to comment on.
Rebates topics include but not limited to:
  • Vehicle rebates, subsidies, tax credits, negative incentives, scrappage incentives and other incentives.
  • Home charging stations.
  • Business charging stations.
  • Workplace charging stations.
  • Rebates from corporations like energy utility companies.
  • Social economics of rebates and implications. (Should we spread the rebates costs around or let owners be 100% responsible?)
  • Why you have not purchased a zero emissions vehicle even though rebates and such are available, what are you waiting for?
Lithium battery topics include things like but not limited to:
  • Safety.
  • Dangers of H2O exposure to lithium batteries.
  • Recycling.
  • Mining of the element.
  • Known deposits of lithium or other elements and rare earths for battery production.
  • Development of new battery technology.
  • Where the energy comes from to charge the batteries.
Discussion about your favorite model(s) of zero-emission vehicles:
  • What you own and your experiences with that.
  • Future purchases.
  • Affordability.
  • What you would like to see in a future model of zero emissions vehicles.
  • Performance compared to a ICE vehicle.
  • Racing zero emissions vehicles.
  • A recent purchase of your new or used zero emissions vehicle.
  • Post a pic of your zero-emissions vehicle.
 
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Doodski

Doodski

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The Chevy Bolt is what I would buy if I was in the market for a zero-emissions vehicle. Here is the USA price for a semi-loaded car. I consider a car to be a poor investment so I like the economy of this model
Screenshot 2021-11-12 103025.png
 
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Doodski

Doodski

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Who calls this cars zero emission?
Its a e-car and it would only have zero emission if the electricity would be produced with zero emission.

Zero emission is for me marketing blabla.
True and then there is the recycling of said vehicles and I don't think that is sorted out yet so there are emissions for that.
I just don't see where all the electrical energy for them is coming from. The rate of carbon reduction is too fast for the energy supply that is required to be created.
 
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pozz

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Who calls this cars zero emission?
Its a e-car and it would only have zero emission if the electricity would be produced with zero emission.

Zero emission is for me marketing blabla.
Right but what's the comparative impact when comparing a gasoline car, including oil extraction, manufacturing and all the accidents along the way, to an electric car, with all of the background similarly included?
 

tomtoo

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True and then there is the recycling of said vehicles and I don't think that is sorted out yet so there are emissions for that.
I just don't see where all the electrical energy for the is coming from. The rate of carbon reduction is too fast for the energy supply that is required to be created.

Not like to get political ;)

To complicated, i think you can write books about, And in every country situation is differen what multiplies the book count. For me e-cars make not realy much sense as long we produce electricity with emissions. I not like to say they make no sense, just not as much they could. See rome was not build in one day, so changing the infrastructur to be more environmentfriendly will also not happen in one day.
 

bluefuzz

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I don't drive. I don't have a driver's license and have never felt the urge to get one, nor have I flown in almost 30 years. Not for any strong ideological reasons, I hasten to add (although nowadays my halo is positively glowing). I have simply never understood what I'm supposed to need a car for. And I've never thought flying halfway round the world to lie on beach for ten days a particularly attractive proposition. So it's feet, pedals or public transport for me if I have to go anywhere. However, I did splurge on an electric bike a couple of years ago. It's a wonderful thing! If your regular transport needs are under ~30 km radius then get an electric bike. Seriously fun and better for your health ... ;-)
 
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Doodski

Doodski

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For me e-cars make not realy much sense as long we produce electricity with emissions. I not like to say they make no sense, just not as much they could.
I think nuclear energy electricity generation is the way to go. Then put the nuclear waste deep underground in a deep geological repository where the water table is not present. That's what Canada is already doing.
 

tomtoo

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Right but what's the comparative impact when comparing a gasoline car, including oil extraction, manufacturing and all the accidents along the way, to an electric car, with all of the background similarly included?

I was complaining about the name zero-emmision car, thats all. I was not into a discussion if i think e-cars are always good or always bad.
 

MarcosCh

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Not like to get political ;)

To complicated, i think you can write books about, And in every country situation is differen what multiplies the book count. For me e-cars make not realy much sense as long we produce electricity with emissions. I not like to say they make no sense, just not as much they could. See rome was not build in one day, so changing the infrastructur to be more environmentfriendly will also not happen in one day.
I think you almost answer yourself. No industry advances and gets mature in one day, so the earlier we get this started the better. All the other limitations and issues will get solved on the way
 

tomtoo

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Right but what's the comparative impact when comparing a gasoline car, including oil extraction, manufacturing and all the accidents along the way, to an electric car, with all of the background similarly included?

I was complaining about the name zero-emmision car, thats all. I was not into a discussion if i think e-cars are always good or always bad.
I think nuclear energy electricity generation is the way to go. Then put the nuclear waste deep underground in a deep geological repository where the water table is not present. That's what Canada is already doing.

Sry, would brake up old wounds. After tschernobyl and fukuschima i was happy that germany was out of the game. Dont think it makes much sense to go again in.
 

KSTR

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Who calls this cars zero emission?
Its a e-car and it would only have zero emission if the electricity would be produced with zero emission.

Zero emission is for me marketing blabla.
And the emission during production.

Just look at those ridiculous e-scooters that pollute our bicycle lanes. Their ecological footprint is horrendous and yet users think they'd be doing something good.
 
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Doodski

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I was complaining about the name zero-emmision car, thats all. I was not into a discussion if i think e-cars are always good or always bad.


Sry, would brake up old wounds. After tschernobyl and fukuschima i was happy that germany was out of the game. Dont think it makes much sense to go again in.
But using coal is a horrible solution. Natural gas has 1/2 the carbon footprint for electricity generation but then one must have reserves of that.
 

pozz

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I was complaining about the name zero-emmision car, thats all. I was not into a discussion if i think e-cars are always good or always bad.
Unless we have the numbers can't assess the marketing claims or the cars themselves.
 

bluefuzz

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I was complaining about the name zero-emmision car,
Well, the cars themselves are strictly zero emission in use (maybe a bit of ozone?) but the core power generation may obviously be fossil fuelled, and fabricating the vehicle presumably has a similar climate impact as a traditional vehicle.
 
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Doodski

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Well, the cars themselves are strictly zero emission in use (maybe a bit of ozone?) but the core power generation may obviously be fossil fuelled, and fabricating the vehicle presumably has a similar climate impact as a traditional vehicle.
I'm not so sure about that fabrication carbon footprint. The rare earths required is intensive and those tend to be a dirty extraction and refining method. Plus rare earths are well, rare.
 

KSTR

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I don't drive. I don't have a driver's license and have never felt the urge to get one, nor have I flown in almost 30 years. Not for any strong ideological reasons, I hasten to add (although nowadays my halo is positively glowing). I have simply never understood what I'm supposed to need a car for. And I've never thought flying halfway round the world to lie on beach for ten days a particularly attractive proposition. So it's feet, pedals or public transport for me if I have to go anywhere. However, I did splurge on an electric bike a couple of years ago. It's a wonderful thing! If your regular transport needs are under ~30 km radius then get an electric bike. Seriously fun and better for your health ... ;-)
Same for me. As my required daily radius is small (10km) I don't even need an e-bike though it would be tempting but I'm trying hard to not let the convenience win ;-)
 

tomtoo

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I think you almost answer yourself. No industry advances and gets mature in one day, so the earlier we get this started the better. All the other limitations and issues will get solved on the way

Sry, we should start, but imo not blind run into a situation that pushes all proplems into future. Technologie is not a comic, where everything happens like we want.
 

001

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I live ~ 50kms from work (100 every day), rural area. If I want see family they are ~ 300kms away. No public transport to speak of. My overriding purchase priority would range and reliability plus thr ability to recharge the vehicle at home (i've solar, soon battery pack). ATM there isnt much EV infrastructure around my area so I'll hold off untill then.
 
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