Yamaha RX-V6A 7.2 channel 4K / 8K Dolby AV Receiver Review

[BN1]

It has definitely been disappointing with the problems associated with avr's designed to meet the new HDMI requirements. And I would like to think that a new avr that costs > $2000 would measure good for any test that is "industry standard". For me, Yamaha remains the top choice in avr's and I will buy a new RX-A4A or RX-A6A at sometime during this yr but willing to give them time to work out any remaining bugs. I guess that I am not an early adopter, just don't need the added hassle in my life.

 

[Sal1950]

Are you telling me you can hear the distortion measured on the RX-A3080?

Maybe, maybe not. But in 2022 I highly expect better and would lay my money down on something else.

Has nothing to do with the ear hearing "things" as you imagine either.

I guess that I am not an early adopter, just don't need the added hassle in my life.

So if it's not about "hearing things" what are we here for?
There are other things at play that people use to make their choices such as features, looks, brand loyalty, etc.
But when it comes to making a purchasing decision I would first look to the measurements.
I'm not sure what you or I can or can't hear, but after reviewing the Sinad ranking list I would purchase a new AVR from one of the 4 units in the green, not one that is only 2 from the very worst measured.
I fully understand you Yamaha owners being protective of your purchasing choice, but the numbers here tell the story on this particular unit.

 

[3dbinCanada]

Maybe, maybe not. But in 2022 I highly expect better and would lay my money down on something else.



So if it's not about "hearing things" what are we here for?
There are other things at play that people use to make their choices such as features, looks, brand loyalty, etc.
But when it comes to making a purchasing decision I would first look to the measurements.
I'm not sure what you or I can or can't hear, but after reviewing the Sinad ranking list I would purchase a new AVR from one of the 4 units in the green, not one that is only 2 from the very worst measured.
I fully understand you Yamaha owners being protective of your purchasing choice, but the numbers here tell the story on this particular unit.

The measurements dont tell the whole story. Only the story you want to hear or read. Measurements don't tell anyone that Yamaha's build quality and QC is the highest of ALL manufacturers with the least return rate and defects; at least it was until this debacle with HDMI. I will take a Yamaha RX-V6A over an Emotiva XMC-1 any day because of the problems Emotiva had with premature failures. Like I said measurements dont tell the whole story and people would not be able to distinguish in a blind listening test, the difference between the SINADs. They will be able to tell if a unit fails prematurely however.

 

[Beershaun]

With no details, that comment is meaningless.

Or are you claiming, after reading measurements, and seeing which you are listening to, you can tell one is better or worse?/

Or do you mean, with a blind test you can tell for sure?

At what distance, at what loudness level? With source material playing, or with nothing playing and your ear against a tweeter??

Here are the details.

Audibility thresholds of amp and DAC measurements

Introduction A recurring theme on ASR is whether or not the various measured qualities of the devices are audible. In this post, I'll present some clear and visual thresholds for when those imperfections can be considered a potentially audible concern. I will not explain the basics of amp/DAC...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[3dbinCanada]

Here are the details.

Audibility thresholds of amp and DAC measurements

Introduction A recurring theme on ASR is whether or not the various measured qualities of the devices are audible. In this post, I'll present some clear and visual thresholds for when those imperfections can be considered a potentially audible concern. I will not explain the basics of amp/DAC...

audiosciencereview.com

Again show me the proof with blind listening tests and then we'll talk. The article even states that the lienient or green line doesnt indicate a guarentee of it being audible.

 

[Sal1950]

The measurements dont tell the whole story. Only the story you want to hear or read. Measurements don't tell anyone that Yamaha's build quality and QC is the highest of ALL manufacturers with the least return rate and defects; at least it was until this debacle with HDMI. I will take a Yamaha RX-V6A over an Emotiva XMC-1 any day because of the problems Emotiva had with premature failures. Like I said measurements dont tell the whole story and people would not be able to distinguish in a blind listening test, the difference between the SINADs. They will be able to tell if a unit fails prematurely however.

As to the Emotiva RMC-1, you only need read the whole review.

"This is a stunning failure for a high-end AV Processor. Usability is not great, and bugs are easy to hit on. The worse news by far though is the measured performance of the pipeline from digital input to analog output. Despite using a premium DAC chip, the measurements paint a very ugly picture."

 

[3dbinCanada]

As to the Emotiva RMC-1, you only need read the whole review.

"This is a stunning failure for a high-end AV Processor. Usability is not great, and bugs are easy to hit on. The worse news by far though is the measured performance of the pipeline from digital input to analog output. Despite using a premium DAC chip, the measurements paint a very ugly picture."

It supports my arguement even further, doesn't it? Its SINAD is much better than the Yamaha.

 

[Sal1950]

It supports my arguement even further, doesn't it? Its SINAD is much better than the Yamaha.

That it's only one measurement, yes.
There were lots more that caused the amp to fail, they all count.

 

[Beershaun]

Again show me the proof with blind listening tests and then we'll talk. The article even states that the lienient or green line doesnt indicate a guarentee of it being audible.

Again show me the proof with blind listening tests and then we'll talk. The article even states that the lienient or green line doesnt indicate a guarentee of it being audible.

So you are saying that because 96db sinad may be arguably the min threshold that -71db in a premium product is defensible? it's up to you to produce proof that the min threshold is incorrect and that it should be lowered to -71db or whatever your research proves.

 

[3dbinCanada]

So you are saying that because 96db sinad may be arguably the min threshold that -71db in a premium product is defensible? it's up to you to produce proof that the min threshold is incorrect and that it should be lowered to -71db or whatever your research proves.

Sorry no. Im not making a judgement call on how it sounds. The specs only group is doing that so please enlighten me. The premium product also has more internal amps and it also has more features that all contribute to the price of the unit. From a marketing perspective, the flagship should measure the best. I'm not arguing that point. What I am saying is that as poor as this unit measured, its still below the point of audibility. From a reliability POV, there's no other company producing AVRs that can best record of lowest returns and msnufacturing defects of their products then Yamaha and SINAD and all the other measurements fail to mention that point.

 

[3dbinCanada]

That it's only one measurement, yes.
There were lots more that caused the amp to fail, they all count.

The amp didnt fail. Thats knowledge bias getting in the way again. I find it amusing that you use SINAD to justify your arguement which failed miserably for the Emotiva. If you look at the V6A thread, it may appear that Amir measured it incorrectly at a preliminary glance.

All Im saying is that treating measurements as the absolute is being as subjective as a golden ear audiophile. If the mediocre results are not audible, what is the advantage of driving them further into inaudibility? I'd rather trade poorer inaudible noise measurements for reliability any day.

 

[Sal1950]

If I were you I wouldn't bet the bankroll on a 32 db difference in SINAD being inaudible but without some DBT sessions it can't be proved either way but,
We all get it, your a major Yamaha fan boy and nothing else matters.
Cheers

 

[valerianf]

It is puzzling to see new Yamaha AVR that cost far more than the old models and measure far worst!
I think that I will keep my RX-A700 until it fails.

 

[Roland]

The amp didnt fail. Thats knowledge bias getting in the way again. I find it amusing that you use SINAD to justify your arguement which failed miserably for the Emotiva. If you look at the V6A thread, it may appear that Amir measured it incorrectly at a preliminary glance.

All Im saying is that treating measurements as the absolute is being as subjective as a golden ear audiophile. If the mediocre results are not audible, what is the advantage of driving them further into inaudibility? I'd rather trade poorer inaudible noise measurements for reliability any day.

I can sympathise with your point of view. I had a flagship Denon AVR which routinely became unable to recognise a usb stick with music on it, regularly wanted to take me through the set up process when it was powered up and got so warm there was no need to heat the room. I changed to an RX-A 3080 which just works perfectly all the time.

Based on stunning SINAD measurements I upgraded my Cambridge Dacmagic mini for a Topping D50s, which sounded just the same.

 

[beagleman]

Here are the details.

Audibility thresholds of amp and DAC measurements

Introduction A recurring theme on ASR is whether or not the various measured qualities of the devices are audible. In this post, I'll present some clear and visual thresholds for when those imperfections can be considered a potentially audible concern. I will not explain the basics of amp/DAC...

audiosciencereview.com

I see 28 pages.....what part actually has the content you are referring to??

 

[beagleman]

If I were you I wouldn't bet the bankroll on a 32 db difference in SINAD being inaudible but without some DBT sessions it can't be proved either way but,
We all get it, your a major Yamaha fan boy and nothing else matters.
Cheers

I think that comment is a bit unfair.

I have a few Yamaha AVRs I bought fairly recently. I AVOIDED buying one based on measurements, until I actually heard one at a friend house. I bought one of his, for next to nothing, the lowest model in the line up, Rx V373 and despite all the talk of specs and measurements being mediocre, I was SHOCKED to find that is sounded Very acceptable to me, when I tend to normally fall in line with measurements being the ONLY thing that matters.

I was never a Fanboy, but simply put 2+2 together and found that possibly most of this stuff is not even audible or matters, except in a lab environment or under certain intentional scrutiny.

If one makes NO effort to actually hear something and SEE if the measurements agree with what you hear, you are left just spouting numbers.....I bought another Yamaha, the one in this review, and found it sounds great also, DESPITE it not measuring great. I really love it.

That is not being a Fanboy, but simply trying to tell some forum members, that maybe the numbers are not the only thing that matters.

 

[beagleman]

Maybe, maybe not. But in 2022 I highly expect better and would lay my money down on something else.



So if it's not about "hearing things" what are we here for?
There are other things at play that people use to make their choices such as features, looks, brand loyalty, etc.
But when it comes to making a purchasing decision I would first look to the measurements.
I'm not sure what you or I can or can't hear, but after reviewing the Sinad ranking list I would purchase a new AVR from one of the 4 units in the green, not one that is only 2 from the very worst measured.
I fully understand you Yamaha owners being protective of your purchasing choice, but the numbers here tell the story on this particular unit.

I think what a few are trying to say, is that you are basing your choice of a product solely on numbers. You have no actual experience of hearing the product, and as you admit freely, no idea what you can hear or not.

Would you be surprised to find that choosing any random receiver based on SINAD alone will not guarantee it sounds better or worse in actual usage?

You are doing what the Total subjectivists do, but the opposite. They say, what they think about sound is all matters, and you say, only what a number on a chart tells matters. I can choose a device without ever hearing it.

There is a middle ground, where one must deduce if the measurement is directly relatable to what one will hear in real world usage. A measurement alone will tell you one thing, but without actual usage you can only "Surmise" it might sound better or worse or be audible or not audible.

But I get that my comments run contrary to the "Measurement are all that matters" crowd. Not everyone in here is in total agreement with that thinking.
I love the Work Amir does, and read it EVERY day, with excitement.

Do I think Yamaha needs to do better? Yes, the electrical tech in me TOTALLY agrees with you......

Do I think both my Yamahas I got for a Steal, sound great despite the mediocre measurement? Yes, so that called into question my whole line of thinking........

 

[Taddpole]

Thread descending into the frequently seen

I believe in measurements except those that make the things I own look bad Vs the measurements the measurements the measurements.

 

[Rottmannash]

Sorry no. Im not making a judgement call on how it sounds. The specs only group is doing that so please enlighten me. The premium product also has more internal amps and it also has more features that all contribute to the price of the unit. From a marketing perspective, the flagship should measure the best. I'm not arguing that point. What I am saying is that as poor as this unit measured, its still below the point of audibility. From a reliability POV, there's no other company producing AVRs that can best record of lowest returns and msnufacturing defects of their products then Yamaha and SINAD and all the other measurements fail to mention that point.

Curious-do you have data to back your reliability and defects claim?

 

[3dbinCanada]

Thread descending into the frequently seen

I believe in measurements except those that make the things I own look bad Vs the measurements the measurements the measurements.

Spec junkies are those who look at lab reports and decide whether or not, something sounds good or bad. Furthermore, spec junkies are so focused on the numbers that they fail to step back and look at the bigger picture of reliability and QC. Are you one of them?