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Yamaha RX-A3080 Review (AVR)

Rate this AVR

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 39 21.5%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 108 59.7%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 27 14.9%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 7 3.9%

  • Total voters
    181

MarcT

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Sorry, but you did not understand that part correctly. Those Denon AVRs you are referring to can do quite well at well over 3 Volts if you disconnect the internal amps or use preamp mode. If you don't, they can still do well at over 3 V but at above 1.4 V-1.5 V, SINAD would begin to drop, to about 75 dB at 2 V and may be a little more at up to 3 to 4 V. 75 dB SINAD would be about as good as the Marantz AVR and the AV7705 just to put things in perspective.



Someone has already answered your question on the 3080Krell combo. It won't be able to drive your Krell amp to its rated output on the test bench for sure because it would likely shutdown at about 2 V. For real world use though, I bet you may be fine because:

a) You may not need 400 W into 8 ohms or 800 W into 4 ohms.
b) Even if you get close to those number it will mostly be only during the rare peaks that may not last long enough to trigger the 3080's protection system.

Have you actually tried?
Thanks for the great info! As to, "have you actually tried", I'm not sure what you mean. I do not have a 3080. I am in the market for a new AVR, mainly considering Denon and Yamaha.

With respect to the new Denons, can you disconnect just the front L/R internal amps? And would that do me any good, with respect to rising distortion above 1.4 to 1.5 V, if I'm still going to be using the Denon to power the center and L/R surround channels? The AVR would then be powering 3 channels.

With respect to the 3080(or the A6A), I will be using the XLR pre-outs, not the rca pre-outs. I hoped that there might be more voltage at the XLR pre-outs, such that the 3080 would be able to provide the Krell's 2.7 Vrms sensitivity level without any risk of shut down.
 

peng

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Thanks for the great info! As to, "have you actually tried", I'm not sure what you mean. I do not have a 3080. I am in the market for a new AVR, mainly considering Denon and Yamaha.

With respect to the new Denons, can you disconnect just the front L/R internal amps? And would that do me any good, with respect to rising distortion above 1.4 to 1.5 V, if I'm still going to be using the Denon to power the center and L/R surround channels? The AVR would then be powering 3 channels.

With respect to the 3080(or the A6A), I will be using the XLR pre-outs, not the rca pre-outs. I hoped that there might be more voltage at the XLR pre-outs, such that the 3080 would be able to provide the Krell's 2.7 Vrms sensitivity level without any risk of shut down.

Yes that's why I meant because I thought you have the 3080 already.

With the Denons, you can use the amp assign feature to disconnect the front L/R but nothing else. The only exceptions are the 8500 and A110, that have the feature that let you disconnect any channel. If you disconnect the front L/R channels, then the pre out for those channels will remain pristine up to 3 to 4 V.

In preamp mode, all channels will be disconnected but that means you won't be able to use any of the internal amps.
If you use the XLRs of the 3080 there is a good chance that it could output 2.7 V without shutting down but Amir did not do that so we can't be sure. Again, just educated guess I bet it can.
 

DeItaBravo

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Thanks for the great info! As to, "have you actually tried", I'm not sure what you mean. I do not have a 3080. I am in the market for a new AVR, mainly considering Denon and Yamaha.

With respect to the new Denons, can you disconnect just the front L/R internal amps? And would that do me any good, with respect to rising distortion above 1.4 to 1.5 V, if I'm still going to be using the Denon to power the center and L/R surround channels? The AVR would then be powering 3 channels.

With respect to the 3080(or the A6A), I will be using the XLR pre-outs, not the rca pre-outs. I hoped that there might be more voltage at the XLR pre-outs, such that the 3080 would be able to provide the Krell's 2.7 Vrms sensitivity level without any risk of shut down.
The max output of the Pre-Out on the unbalanced side is 2.0v. The XLR has it's own independant board with it's own gain structure and is setup with the same circuit layout as the CX-A5200. Max output of the XLR is a little over 4.0v (0.06 THD) The 3080 switches off the input signal to the internal amps when you select external amp for front 2 channel. The amp is still powered, however it has no signal going to it, hence, no current requirements. It's idling.
 

MarcT

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Yes that's why I meant because I thought you have the 3080 already.

With the Denons, you can use the amp assign feature to disconnect the front L/R but nothing else. The only exceptions are the 8500 and A110, that have the feature that let you disconnect any channel. If you disconnect the front L/R channels, then the pre out for those channels will remain pristine up to 3 to 4 V.

In preamp mode, all channels will be disconnected but that means you won't be able to use any of the internal amps.
If you use the XLRs of the 3080 there is a good chance that it could output 2.7 V without shutting down but Amir did not do that so we can't be sure. Again, just educated guess I bet it can.
Perfect! I guess it looks like either the 3080(and I assume the A6A) or the new Denons(with front L/R amp turned off) will drive the Krell just fine. However, with the Denons, I will have to use a rca/XLR adapter, while with the Yamaha I will be able to use a set of XLR interconnects.
 

MarcT

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The max output of the Pre-Out on the unbalanced side is 2.0v. The XLR has it's own independant board with it's own gain structure and is setup with the same circuit layout as the CX-A5200. Max output of the XLR is a little over 4.0v (0.06 THD) The 3080 switches off the input signal to the internal amps when you select external amp for front 2 channel. The amp is still powered, however it has no signal going to it, hence, no current requirements. It's idling.
Thanks, excellent. Hmm, I like the idea of the XLR output having its own independent circuitry. For some reason, I thought the Denons were the only AVRs that disengage the internal amps when using a separate power amp.
 

peng

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The max output of the Pre-Out on the unbalanced side is 2.0v. The XLR has it's own independant board with it's own gain structure and is setup with the same circuit layout as the CX-A5200. Max output of the XLR is a little over 4.0v (0.06 THD)

Amir typically would use XLR if available so he likely was trying to measure it at 4 V but couldn't do it because the protection kicked in.

He said "As usual, I started to measure the DAC portion by using the pre-amp output, only to be punched in the face by the AVR going into protection mode."

It would be great if @amirm can tell us at what pre out voltage the 3080 shutdown.

The 3080 switches off the input signal to the internal amps when you select external amp for front 2 channel. The amp is still powered, however it has no signal going to it, hence, no current requirements. It's idling.

Good to know that, but it seemed that Amir didn't know the front L/R internal amps could be disconnected because he also said:

"As far as I can tell, there is no way to shut off the amps so not only do they disturb the analog outputs, but also don't let you crank it up to full volume beyond what the internal amps can handle."
 

MarcT

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Amir typically would use XLR if available so he likely was trying to measure it at 4 V but couldn't do it because the protection kicked in.

He said "As usual, I started to measure the DAC portion by using the pre-amp output, only to be punched in the face by the AVR going into protection mode."

It would be great if @amirm can tell us at what pre out voltage the 3080 shutdown.



Good to know that, but it seemed that Amir didn't know the front L/R internal amps could be disconnected because he also said:

"As far as I can tell, there is no way to shut off the amps so not only do they disturb the analog outputs, but also don't let you crank it up to full volume beyond what the internal amps can handle."
Yes, inquiring minds would like to know.
 

peng

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Perfect! I guess it looks like either the 3080(and I assume the A6A) or the new Denons(with front L/R amp turned off) will drive the Krell just fine. However, with the Denons, I will have to use a rca/XLR adapter, while with the Yamaha I will be able to use a set of XLR interconnects.

If you go for the A6A then you know it can do it easily for sure, based on Gene's review/measurements.
 

Sprint

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@peng

How much pre out signal in Vrms will be ideal for active monitor like Genelec 8340 analog XLR inputs? As the input sensitivity is given in the charts below in dBu, I am unable to interpret.

1642114096334.png
 

TurtlePaul

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How much pre out signal in Vrms will be ideal for active monitor like Genelec 8340 analog XLR inputs? As the input sensitivity is given in the charts below in dBu, I am unable to interpret.
-6 dBu means that 0.39 volts RMS would produce 100 dB of sound at 1 meter if you turn it all the way up. +6 dBu means that 1.55 V RMS would produce 100 dB at 1 meter if you turn it all the way down. +25 dBu max analog signal means the input will clip at 13.8 V RMS input.

If you double the distance you cut the dB by half, so 94 dB at 2 meters or 88 dB at 4 meters. Then you need to figure out how loud you want it.
 

Sprint

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Sorry, but you did not understand that part correctly. Those Denon AVRs you are referring to can do quite well at well over 3 Volts if you disconnect the internal amps or use preamp mode. If you don't, they can still do well at over 3 V but at above 1.4 V-1.5 V, SINAD would begin to drop, to about 75 dB at 2 V and may be a little more at up to 3 to 4 V. 75 dB SINAD would be about as good as the Marantz AVR and the AV7705 just to put things in perspective.



Someone has already answered your question on the 3080Krell combo. It won't be able to drive your Krell amp to its rated output on the test bench for sure because it would likely shutdown at about 2 V. For real world use though, I bet you may be fine because:

a) You may not need 400 W into 8 ohms or 800 W into 4 ohms.
b) Even if you get close to those number it will mostly be only during the rare peaks that may not last long enough to trigger the 3080's protection system.

Have you actually tried?
@peng : want to understand what does it mean by disconnecting internal amps. Do we here mean to remove the cables from the speaker out even though in the settings I do not select preamp mode?
 
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Sprint

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-6 dBu means that 0.39 volts RMS would produce 100 dB of sound at 1 meter if you turn it all the way up. +6 dBu means that 1.55 V RMS would produce 100 dB at 1 meter if you turn it all the way down. +25 dBu max analog signal means the input will clip at 13.8 V RMS input.

If you double the distance you cut the dB by half, so 94 dB at 2 meters or 88 dB at 4 meters. Then you need to figure out how loud you want it.
Thanks got it! My listening distance is at around 3,0-3,5 meters. So this means 89-91 dB. Is my assumption correct that the internal amps in Genelec will have to work hard if it is set at low sensitivity of -6dBu/0.39 volts RMS? So even a bad AVR should output 1.55 V RMS when I have the AVR volume knob at around -30dB. So it ok to leave the knob at +6dBu? In case of XLR out put from processor like Yamaha CX-A5200 or unbalanced RCA output from Denon 3700 in preamp mode, the output will be 4V. So even here I can keep the setting to +6dBu - correct?

sorry for a naive question - since Genelec has this sensitivity setting, does the AVR measurements like higher output and higher SINAD per volt has relevance for active monitors like Genelec? Will a lower SINAD - 52DB from 2V rms of the worst measured AVR like NAD T758 have a massive influence on sound quality from Genelec. In other words, if I keep the volume high in AVR e.g. 0DB, then the volt will be high and I assume SINAD will also rise. Is my understanding correct as Genelec says for digital signal source - keep the volume of incoming digital max and reduce the volume of Genelec in GLM like mentioned below? Can I apply this for analog signal and reduce the influence of badly measured AVR on the sound quality from Genelec?

1642119895949.png
 

Trell

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Thanks got it! My listening distance is at around 3,0-3,5 meters. So this means 89-91 dB. Is my assumption correct that the internal amps in Genelec will have to work hard if it is set at low sensitivity of -6dBu/0.39 volts RMS? So even a bad AVR should output 1.55 V RMS when I have the AVR volume knob at around -30dB. So it ok to leave the knob at +6dBu? In case of XLR out put from processor like Yamaha CX-A5200 or unbalanced RCA output from Denon 3700 in preamp mode, the output will be 4V. So even here I can keep the setting to +6dBu - correct?

sorry for a naive question - since Genelec has this sensitivity setting, does the AVR measurements like higher output and higher SINAD per volt has relevance for active monitors like Genelec? Will a lower SINAD - 52DB from 2V rms of the worst measured AVR like NAD T758 have a massive influence on sound quality from Genelec. In other words, if I keep the volume high in AVR e.g. 0DB, then the volt will be high and I assume SINAD will also rise. Is my understanding correct as Genelec says for digital signal source - keep the volume of incoming digital max and reduce the volume of Genelec in GLM like mentioned below? Can I apply this for analog signal and reduce the influence of badly measured AVR on the sound quality from Genelec?

View attachment 178900

Since you are using GLM for setup and room EQ you should set "Stored" DIP switch to on, and that disables the the other switches including the rotary knob for sensitivity. Remember to save changes made in GLM with the "Store to Loudspeakers" or you will loose the settings at first power on/off.

The volume level in GLM is the same as input adjustment with more range, thus replacing the sensitive rotary knob. Volume level 0 corresponds to 100 dB (at 1 meter distance) with -6 dBu signal.

Have a look at the post 2564 made by @Ilkka Rissanen that is a Genelec employee:


>>>
OK, that means its like try and error, so there is no "mathematical" way by knowing the numbers of the setting?

You can do some calculations but there is no single 'right' value, it all depends how you want to scale you system's gain structure.
:)


Default (maximum) input sensitivity of the 8351A is 100 dB (at 1 meter distance) with -6 dBu signal. Maximum output of the monitor is 111 dB which means that you need -6 dBu + 11 dB = 5 dBu input signal to reach it. Maximum output of your Yamaha is rated at 8.5 V which translates to 21 dBu. That is 21 dBu - 5 dBu = 16 dB more than is required for the maximum output which means you can lower the input sensitivity of the monitor by at least this amount, probably even more because I doubt you will constantly push your monitors to maximum SPL (if you do, you will most likely need bigger monitors). So, -10 to -20 dB setting for input sensitivity would be my starting point for testing. Of course it also depends how much of the maximum volume range of Yamaha you want to use. Some people want to use only half of it, some prefer more.



Of course I have, that why I made the decision for Genelec
:D

But I don't use the GLM for adjusting the volume, its always fixed on 0 dB for analog source (I do not use the digital input).
Did I miss the point or what has GLM to do with the input sensitivity question?

Oh good! Yes, you have missed a very important point.
:)
GLM volume setting is the same as input sensitivity adjustment, it just has more range, from 0 to 120 dB. Also, when you are using GLM, all manual settings behind the monitor are overridden. The only dip you need to enable is the stored settings switch which enables the monitor to remember the GLM settings stored in it. In order to set the input sensitivity via GLM, go to Group | Store current group settings at current volume level to SAM monitors, and have the volume slider for example at -20 dB then. Obviously you don't need to have music playing then.
<<<

A handy online calculator for these calculations is

 

DeItaBravo

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Amir typically would use XLR if available so he likely was trying to measure it at 4 V but couldn't do it because the protection kicked in.

He said "As usual, I started to measure the DAC portion by using the pre-amp output, only to be punched in the face by the AVR going into protection mode."

It would be great if @amirm can tell us at what pre out voltage the 3080 shutdown.



Good to know that, but it seemed that Amir didn't know the front L/R internal amps could be disconnected because he also said:

"As far as I can tell, there is no way to shut off the amps so not only do they disturb the analog outputs, but also don't let you crank it up to full volume beyond what the internal amps can handle."
This is not to throw shade on Amir, or to say anything derogatory about him specific, but realize his review was done in 2016. I have no idea about what he did personally when testing, or his familiarity with the product, but I can assure you that the RX-A3080 mutes the signal to the front amp sections internally when you select External amp in the Speaker Assign section. I will say that external signal will pass to the unbalanced Front Out even if you have not selected External. (sends signal to both internal and Front Out)

Whether this was changed with the various firmware version upgrades or simply that Amir didn't know what he was doing, I can assure you one need only take a look at the Service Manual and see the circuitry in place to perform these functions to assign/remove signal to various internal amp sections like Front, Bi-Amp, Surround or Presence. My units run the latest version at this time, Ver.1.96 I run it in 7/2/4+Ext

Why the 3080 shut down would be a guess without the service code stored, but strongly suspect it was bridge rectifier heat sink overheat. (D1808)
 
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MarcT

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This is not to throw shade on Amir, or to say anything derogatory about him specific, but realize his review was done in 2016. I have no idea about what he did personally when testing, or his familiarity with the product, but I can assure you that the RX-A3080 mutes the signal to the front amp sections internally when you select External amp in the Speaker Assign section. I will say that external signal will pass to the unbalanced Front Out even if you have not selected External. (sends signal to both internal and Front Out)

Whether this was changed with the various firmware version upgrades or simply that Amir didn't know what he was doing, I can assure you one need only take a look at the Service Manual and see the circuitry in place to perform these functions to assign/remove signal to various internal amp sections like Front, Bi-Amp, Surround or Presence. My units run the latest version at this time, Ver.1.96 I run it in 7/2/4+Ext

Why the 3080 shut down would be a guess without the service code stored, but strongly suspect it was bridge rectifier heat sink overheat. (D1808)
How can we determine if this also applies to the RX-A6A?
 

Sprint

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@Trell Thanks for pointing it out to the Genelec forum and it really helps now! I will now try it as soon as I have an AVR (had to sell my Yamaha RX-V775). Does the low SINAD, SNR, distortion from a pre-out signal has any impact on Genelec as it seems Genelec accpets any kind of volts / has a ADC that probably is doing some cleaning?

I have another thread in ASR with this link listing my options and requesting for recommendations. I have two options 1. Canton smart connect 5.1 and saving money to later upgrade to all digital via a device like Vanity Pro. I have asked Genelec and after seeing my room in this link, they proposed me to go for a Processor with balanced output that can do atleast 5.2.4 Atmos and have asked me to consider installing Genelec 4 * 8320 for a 3D sound in my room. It seems all digital for 5.1 has lesser value than doing Atmos.

Do you have any proposals? I am leaning towards Yamaha CX-A5200 or Marantz 6015 (As per this Video 1 and Video 2, Gene says pre-out in 8015 is even better than balanced out of 7705/7706). I love the sound of Yamaha for its dynamics in movies and have never heard Marantz in detail.
 

peng

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How can we determine if this also applies to the RX-A6A?

Your can download the manual and see page 78 under the heading "7.2.4 [ext.Front]"

In that configuration, the FL and FR channels will be assigned to the FL and FR pre outs. That indicates the FL and FR power amps will be re-assigned to the presence speaker channels, though it doesn't sayit explicitly. That seems like the same idea as D+M's amp assign feature. It is not clear if Yamaha would let you apply this trick by using the 11 speaker layouts, then change to the fewer speaker layouts such as 5.1, 7.1 etc., and still have the FL and FR assigned to pre out. We know with the D+M AVRs it can be done. To confirm that we would need someone who has the A6A to try it and let us know the result.
 
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