Yamaha RX-A3080 Review (AVR)

[MarcT]

Your can download the manual and see page 78 under the heading "7.2.4 [ext.Front]"

In that configuration, the FL and FR channels will be assigned to the FL and FR pre outs. That indicates the FL and FR power amps will be re-assigned to the presence speaker channels, though it doesn't sayit explicitly. That seems like the same idea as D+M's amp assign feature. It is not clear if Yamaha would let you apply this trick by using the 11 speaker layouts, then change to the fewer speaker layouts such as 5.1, 7.1 etc., and still have the FL and FR assigned to pre out. We know with the D+M AVRs it can be done. To confirm that we would need someone who has the A6A to try it and let us know the result.

Thanks! Since I run a 5.1 system, it seems like I would need to know that before buying the A6A.

 

[DeItaBravo]

Your can download the manual and see page 78 under the heading "7.2.4 [ext.Front]"

In that configuration, the FL and FR channels will be assigned to the FL and FR pre outs. That indicates the FL and FR power amps will be re-assigned to the presence speaker channels, though it doesn't sayit explicitly. That seems like the same idea as D+M's amp assign feature. It is not clear if Yamaha would let you apply this trick by using the 11 speaker layouts, then change to the fewer speaker layouts such as 5.1, 7.1 etc., and still have the FL and FR assigned to pre out. We know with the D+M AVRs it can be done. To confirm that we would need someone who has the A6A to try it and let us know the result.

Just for clarity, the L & R Front will be disconnected. There are 2 Presence outputs, Ext Speaker 1 can be assigned as Front Presence, or Zone 2 or 3. Ext Speaker 2 can be Front Bi-Amp, Rear Presence or Zone 2 or 3, but you cannot assign both Ext Speaker 1 & 2 to a single Zone. Pre-Outs are live no matter the Amp assign.

 

[peng]

Just for clarity, the L & R Front will be disconnected. There are 2 Presence outputs, Ext Speaker 1 can be assigned as Front Presence, or Zone 2 or 3. Ext Speaker 2 can be Front Bi-Amp, Rear Presence or Zone 2 or 3, but you cannot assign both Ext Speaker 1 & 2 to a single Zone. Pre-Outs are live no matter the Amp assign.

That's what I thought based on the information in the owner's manual. I have never doubted you that the FL/FR could be disconnected based on the way you described it, as it sounds totally logical to me.

The remaining question is, it looks like (again, based on the owners manual) to assign the FL/FR channels to the pre outs so as to free up those two internal amp channels to the presence or zone 2/3 channels, one would have to select their speaker layout to one of the specified speaker configurations described in the 3080's owner's manual. (Page 33-35):

7.2.4 [ext.Front], 7.2.2 [ext.Front]+1Zone and 7.2 [ext.Front]+2Zone

So if you are only running say 5.1, can you still assign FL and FR to pre out by using one of the 3 speaker layouts that all involved 7.2.x, then reconfigure the configuration back to 5.1 after disconnecting FL and FR internal amps without getting an error messages and the FL/FR amps remained disconnected? I don't have any concern either way as I run 11 channels anyway but I sure many readers running fewer channels may also want to disconnect the internal amps so they can feel good about using their external amps that may require the pre out to stay pristine at >2 V unbalanced.

Thank you.

 

[DeItaBravo]

That's what I thought based on the information in the owner's manual. I have never doubted you that the FL/FR could be disconnected based on the way you described it, as it sounds totally logical to me.

The remaining question is, it looks like (again, based on the owners manual) to assign the FL/FR channels to the pre outs so as to free up those two internal amp channels to the presence or zone 2/3 channels, one would have to select their speaker layout to one of the specified speaker configurations described in the 3080's owner's manual. (Page 33-35):

7.2.4 [ext.Front], 7.2.2 [ext.Front]+1Zone and 7.2 [ext.Front]+2Zone

So if you are only running say 5.1, can you still assign FL and FR to pre out by using one of the 3 speaker layouts that all involved 7.2.x, then reconfigure the configuration back to 5.1 after disconnecting FL and FR internal amps without getting an error messages and the FL/FR amps remained disconnected? I don't have any concern either way as I run 11 channels anyway but I sure many readers running fewer channels may also want to disconnect the internal amps so they can feel good about using their external amps that may require the pre out to stay pristine at >2 V unbalanced.

Thank you.

The flow is like this, the ESS DAC sends signal to a buffer opamp and goes to the volume/tone chip. From there it goes to the amp and to the Pre-Out opamp. The line to the amp has a mute circuit as does the Pre-Out, however the the Pre-Out mute only is engaged when all-mute is used. The line to the amplifer is muted when you select Ext Front. The Pre-Out has signal no matter your setting, except in all-mute. The L & R Front amplifier outputs will always be L & R Front and cannot be reassigned. It will either be live or muted when you select Ext Front.

7.2.4 [ext.Front] = Speaker 1 & 2 are Presence (and used for Atmos)
7.2.2 [ext.Front]+1Zone = Speaker 1 is Presence (and used for Front Atmos), and Speaker 2 is Zone selected
7.2 [ext.Front]+2Zone = No Presence (no Atmos), Speaker 1 is a Zone which you choose, and Speaker 2 is the other Zone.

 

[peng]

The flow is like this, the ESS DAC sends signal to a buffer opamp and goes to the volume/tone chip. From there it goes to the amp and to the Pre-Out opamp. The line to the amp has a mute circuit as does the Pre-Out, however the the Pre-Out mute only is engaged when all-mute is used. The line to the amplifer is muted when you select Ext Front. The Pre-Out has signal no matter your setting, except in all-mute. The L & R Front amplifier outputs will always be L & R Front and cannot be reassigned. It will either be live or muted when you select Ext Front.

7.2.4 [ext.Front] = Speaker 1 & 2 are Presence (and used for Atmos)
7.2.2 [ext.Front]+1Zone = Speaker 1 is Presence (and used for Front Atmos), and Speaker 2 is Zone selected
7.2 [ext.Front]+2Zone = No Presence (no Atmos), Speaker 1 is a Zone which you choose, and Speaker 2 is the other Zone.

Thank you for explaining that, it sounds very similar to Denon and Marantz's, but again that's not my question. My question if whether users who only have 5.1 speakers can take advantage of the feature to "disconnect the front left and front right channels. Again, I am asking only because as you said "The line to the amplifier is muted when you select Ext Front.", and to do so, one would have to select one of the three 7.2.X I listed and you repeated above and then the question is, can I then reconfigure the speaker to a 5.1 layout and still have FL/FR power amp channel remain disconnected. I wouldn't use the term muted because it isn't a mute function, though the circuitry used would almost certainly be the same.

To help clarify my question further, I can tell you for a Denon, as an example, I have to select one of those 7.2.X configuration to disconnect the FL and FR, but after that is done I can go back to the speaker menu to configure the layout to something else, even just 2.1 and the FL and FR power amp channels would remain disconnected. Can we do the same/similar to the Yamaha, that's the question and I hope it is clear this time.

Thanks again for your patience.

 

[DeItaBravo]

Thank you for explaining that, it sounds very similar to Denon and Marantz's, but again that's not my question. My question if whether users who only have 5.1 speakers can take advantage of the feature to "disconnect the front left and front right channels. Again, I am asking only because as you said "The line to the amplifier is muted when you select Ext Front.", and to do so, one would have to select one of the three 7.2.X I listed and you repeated above and then the question is, can I then reconfigure the speaker to a 5.1 layout and still have FL/FR power amp channel remain disconnected. I wouldn't use the term muted because it isn't a mute function, though the circuitry used would almost certainly be the same.

To help clarify my question further, I can tell you for a Denon, as an example, I have to select one of those 7.2.X configuration to disconnect the FL and FR, but after that is done I can go back to the speaker menu to configure the layout to something else, even just 2.1 and the FL and FR power amp channels would remain disconnected. Can we do the same/similar to the Yamaha, that's the question and I hope it is clear this time.

Thanks again for your patience.

If you only have 5.1 and 4 Presence (Atmos) you will select 7.2.4+Ext Front and in the Speaker menu go to Rear Surround and it allows you to disable. (not present) It will properly display the actual speakers in the TV's screen. Rear Surround will also be muted and no signal send to amp.

 

[peng]

If you only have 5.1 and 4 Presence (Atmos) you will select 7.2.4+Ext Front and in the Speaker menu go to Rear Surround and it allows you to disable. (not present) It will properly display the actual speakers in the TV's screen. No Speaker connection will be made to those amplier terminals either, giving only actual speakers connected signal.

No presence or whatever, just 5 speakers and one or two subs. So I take it the answer is no then?

 

[DeItaBravo]

No presence or whatever, just 5 speakers and one or two subs. So I take it the answer is no then?

If all you have is 5.1 or 2 and want to use an external Front Amp, then you still choose 7.2.4+ExtFront and set the Presence Speakers in the Speaker section to "None" and those amp sections are also muted. So now, you would have Rear Surround, Front and Rear Presence set to "None" and those amp channels are muted as well as Front. That would leave only the Center and Side Surround amp sections with live signal.

 

[MarcT]

If all you have is 5.1 or 2 and want to use an external Front Amp, then you still choose 7.2.4+ExtFront and set the Presence Speakers in the Speaker section to "None" and those amp sections are also muted. So now, you would have Rear Surround, Front and Rear Presence set to "None" and those amp channels are muted as well as Front. That would leave only the Center and Side Surround amp sections with live signal.

So, then it sounds like the 3080, and presumably the A6A, would do what I want for my 5.1 system. I assume that even if I choose 7.2.4+ExtFront, I will still be able to tell the 3080 that I have only one subwoofer, correct?

 

[DeItaBravo]

So, then it sounds like the 3080, and presumably the A6A, would do what I want for my 5.1 system. I assume that even if I choose 7.2.4+ExtFront, I will still be able to tell the 3080 that I have only one subwoofer, correct?

Subs are detected at inital setup, but yes, you can select in the Speaker configuration "None" for sub 2, as well as L/R or Front/Rear

 

[MarcT]

Subs are detected at inital setup, but yes, you can select in the Speaker configuration "None" for sub 2, as well as L/R or Front/Rear

Thanks. I do the manual setup, haven't used Audessy yet, likely won't use Yamaha's auto setup.

 

[Echolane]

Amir writes this:
As usual, I started to measure the DAC portion by using the pre-amp output, only to be punched in the face by the AVR going into protection mode. As far as I can tell, there is no way to shut off the amps so not only do they disturb the analog outputs, but also don't let you crank it up to full volume beyond what the internal amps can handle. What were they thinking? Have they fixed it in this year's model? Anyway, the motivation was the amplifier anyway so let's jump into that.

can someone explain this? What is a preamp output used for? I am looking for an AV receiver or processor and I want to be able to bypass the amplifiers (or shut them off) because I will be using my own amplifier for audio. Does this mean I couldn’t do that?

 

[ntsarb]

So does anyone make a surround sound processor without amplification? Latest Dolby whatever processor.

Yes. Yamaha CX-A5200.

 

[ntsarb]

This is exactly what I did with my RX-A3080. I use the balanced outputs of the preamp to feed the L+R channels to a Rotel RB-1552 MkII external power amplifier. All other (9) channels are amplified by the AVR, for an 11.2 speakers configuration.

Never needed to crank it up to full power, to test its limits. That would be too loud for my space.

Amir writes this:
As usual, I started to measure the DAC portion by using the pre-amp output, only to be punched in the face by the AVR going into protection mode. As far as I can tell, there is no way to shut off the amps so not only do they disturb the analog outputs, but also don't let you crank it up to full volume beyond what the internal amps can handle. What were they thinking? Have they fixed it in this year's model? Anyway, the motivation was the amplifier anyway so let's jump into that.

can someone explain this? What is a preamp output used for? I am looking for an AV receiver or processor and I want to be able to bypass the amplifiers (or shut them off) because I will be using my own amplifier for audio. Does this mean I couldn’t do that?

 

[EEE272]

Thanks. I do the manual setup, haven't used Audessy yet, likely won't use Yamaha's auto setup.

Just wanted to point out that the automatic setup is not a bad idea to run anyway. You can afterwards tweak the PEQs, levels and distances freely to your liking.
The reason is that the setup also calibrates all DSP effects and defines the mapping based on the actual angles at which your speakers are located. Further, it initiates the rsc corrections. The latter you cannot modify/ deactivate though, if you want to continue to use the PEQs. It is probably one of the reasons why the SINAD is slightly lower in straight mode. Using PEQ "through" or pure direct deactivates it.

 

[EEE272]

To really review this product it would be nice to know if YPAO or bass management (which don't work pure direct) make this a low-70s SINAD non-transparent amp like other Yamahas. It seems like Amir picks a different suite of tests for each review, so it is a little frustrating and useless.

That should be visible on the preout, no?
I could run the 1K Hz test tone and report back. I don't have a top measurement device but it's noise floor and distortion would still allow us to see if we get into a -70dB range. Would that help?
As indicated in my previous post, the RSC part of YPAO would probably be the culprit of a slightly reduced SINAD. Although it is not audible, like the 120 Hz distortion.

 

[DeItaBravo]

This is exactly what I did with my RX-A3080. I use the balanced outputs of the preamp to feed the L+R channels to a Rotel RB-1552 MkII external power amplifier. All other (9) channels are amplified by the AVR, for an 11.2 speakers configuration.

Never needed to crank it up to full power, to test its limits. That would be too loud for my space.

Just as an FYI, when checking gain structure, you do not utilize speakers attached to the outputs of the amplifier, it is checked by the voltage present on the channel outputs. You would bring the 3080 up to it's 0dB volume reference, and an external amp should (if it has meters) equal the 0dB reference, or in other words it's rated output at 0dB reference.

 

[TurtlePaul]

That should be visible on the preout, no?
I could run the 1K Hz test tone and report back. I don't have a top measurement device but it's noise floor and distortion would still allow us to see if we get into a -70dB range. Would that help?
As indicated in my previous post, the RSC part of YPAO would probably be the culprit of a slightly reduced SINAD. Although it is not audible, like the 120 Hz distortion.

I think that the preout would show it.

 

[EEE272]

I think that the preout would show it.

I was surprised but Ypao seems to have very little influence in terms of sound degradation. There is still >90dB between peak and harmonics. I did not run it at 0 dB because with PEQ engaged, I did not want to clip. This is around -10 dB (-5 on the receiver and -5 signal) but with potential PEQ boost.
The noise floor seems to be mostly the soundcard noise floor, but you can see the harmonic peaks. Nevertheless, as indicated you get at least a 90 dB difference - thus, definitely not 70 range.

This test was done with the DAC filter that Gene suggested and I did not even deactivate the loudspeakers by choosing the pre-amp mode - I only detached the cables.

Disclaimer: as said before, I don't have a professional measurement device. I use a Behringer external soundcard, which is supposed to have good specs and which I calibrated before measurements - although the deviations were already very small.

 

[TurtlePaul]

I was surprised but Ypao seems to have very little influence in terms of sound degradation. There is still >90dB between peak and harmonics. I did not run it at 0 dB because with PEQ engaged, I did not want to clip. This is around -10 dB (-5 on the receiver and -5 signal) but with potential PEQ boost.
The noise floor seems to be mostly the soundcard noise floor, but you can see the harmonic peaks. Nevertheless, as indicated you get at least a 90 dB difference - thus, definitely not 70 range.

That is awesome. That would make this better for YPAO than the r-n803 Amir previously reviewed. I was considering that amp, but didn't like that you had to choose to have either low distortion with CD direct or choose to have YPAO and bass management with poor measurements.