Wilson Audio TuneTot Review (high-end bookshelf speaker)

[CtheArgie]

Reviews are often embargoed by manufacturers until after product release dates. Manufacturers don’t need to pay reviewers to embargo their reviews until products are released. Instead, if a reviewer breaks their promise to embargo a review, then the manufacturer will never send them a pre-release product again. That’s motivation enough to comply. Nothing fishy about this.

I start with the assumption that the person I am dealing with is NOT corrupt. Maybe call me idealistic or naive. But, to start with the presumption of funny business is very cynical. You have to think that way to believe that everyone else is like that.

 

[amirm]

I can’t imagine there are many people naive enough not to understand the game that goes one with consumer audio magazines, but likewise ASR’s review of the LA90 amplifier came out on the product launch day and Topping use the review for their own website publicity, so there was clearly coordination there.

Of course there was coordination. You have not seen coordination between when Apple releases a new iPhone and all the reviews that press and hands-on testing that comes out the same day? Product and information is provided in advance with an embargo until the company itself makes the announcement. Same thing happened here with multiple reviewers getting LA90 in advance and being ready to post the review at the agreed upon time.

This doesn't mean whatsoever that there is any other deal is going on. It simply means a level playing field for everyone who wants to review the product. This is "bog standard" as the British would say. That you don't know this standard industry practice and turn it into some kind of accusation means you need to learn more before you start typing.

Your time here will be coming to an end if you keep this kind of nonsense coming as it is not the first time you have pulled such stunt.

 

[amirm]

I hope ASR got paid something.

There was not a dime paid. Nor would I have accepted such.

 

[CtheArgie]

He “hopes”. That tells you everything about him. Money as principal motivator.

 

[Axo1989]

whether people can afford them or not is irrelevant to the fact that they are poor value for money.

if someone wants to be in the position where they can afford to spend $10K on loudspeakers they will get there faster if they avoid buying products that are poor value for money, whether that is loudspeakers or anything else.

Poor value for money isn't an objective criteria. Value judgments are subjective. You can rate value for money on any set of values you like. It could be performance against measured criteria, or it could be aesthetics (or something else). People often get confused because they value the former (an objective measurement) versus the latter (a subjective response) and assume that their value judgment itself also is objective. But the choice of what to value is inherently subjective, there is no escaping that.

The choice to value, say, a high Olive score based on Klippel measurement is fairly common here. Measured against that criteria the TuneTots have lower value for money that an equivalent or cheaper Genelec one series. But if you value particular visual aesthetics and/or haptics you may come up with a different result. For people who find the Genelec aesthetics unacceptable, then the value for money result is different.

These are hypothetical—albeit common—values, not mine specifically (I don't rule out Genelec one series due to aesthetics, for example). I'm simply commenting on the frequent mistake people make when invoking value for money. It always depends on what values you are comparing.

 

[kokakolia]

If you want a small stylish speaker in maroon or navy blue to match the colour scheme of your office, kitchen or apartment, then it is not poor value for money.

Wrong! Because boutique speaker companies allow you to choose the finish. You can choose your color on the RAL color chart (if the satin finish is chosen). I could have done that with my OGY speakers (~1.7k€), but I chose the white corian finish instead. I think OGY wins for aesthetics!

That's common practice actually. And I even saw a pair of bookshelf speakers around 600€ which offers that option. The paint or varnish finish are typically the most affordable. Veneers cost more. It's rare to have hardwood or corian.

 

[sofrep811]

More absolute Garbage from this site.
Lots of pretty graphs showing nonsense. Tons of issues, but let’s start with:
1. the ”robotic” NFS measurement device - you cannot accurately subtract room reflections from the direct sound measurement, which is why no real pros do this. The math quite frankly has not been invented yet to do this properly. So right off the bat, this “test” is a complete joke.
2. room temp was 14C? What? You don’t listen to a loudspeaker in 14C/57F rooms, they are designed for at least 18C. Normal room temp is 20C/68F
3. Aligned “by eye” to the speaker center, which the tester guessed -wrongly - is the tweeter. Wilson states the center is not the tweeter. Read the manual, for starters.

Most of this site is a DISASTER. It’s where those who can’t afford, or don’t want to, pay for high-end audio come to lament the fact that these products suck. So wrong. It’s actually laughable.

You guys have no idea what you’re missing out on!

Joffrey? is that you?

 

[rkt31]

Just a lot of presumptions. I buy speakers in what I imagine you consider to be the audiophile market. In my personal experience more $$$ definitely not always better. Lots of considerations, like general sonic presentation, the size of the room they are for, how they look, how big they are, how deep they go, any fatigue, etc. one of my key criteria is how speakers sound at low volume, which some very expensive speakers do terribly.

I can’t imagine there are many people naive enough not to understand the game that goes one with consumer audio magazines, but likewise ASR’s review of the LA90 amplifier came out on the product launch day and Topping use the review for their own website publicity, so there was clearly coordination there. I hope ASR got paid something. That’s just how the world works, the grown ups in the room will see it for what it is, it’s not corruption. If Topping advertised in Stereophile they might get some reviews. You don’t have to read the reviews or buy based on them, I certainly don’t. My issue is that they tend to be incredibly tedious and I don’t have the patience for them.

There is no harm if someone asks his product to measure. Lot more people do that and advertise the review on their website. Problem is when the review is deliberately in favour of someone. But see this is the beauty of measurements. You can't fake it. Even if you try there will be others to point out. So don't worry. Topping has done what many people were waiting for long, a relatively cheap ultra clean amp for those who couldn't afford ahb2.

 

[sofrep811]

If you want a small stylish speaker in maroon or navy blue to match the colour scheme of your office, kitchen or apartment, then it is not poor value for money.

There seems little point reviewing a product like this if you ignore the metrics most likely to be relevant to its customers. It’s a bit like measuring a $2,000 Hermes scarf based on its thermal properties alone. You’d do better at Walmart for $30, but not as stylish.

What in God’s name are you blabbing about?

 

[DWI]

Wrong! Because boutique speaker companies allow you to choose the finish. You can choose your color on the RAL color chart (if the satin finish is chosen). I could have done that with my OGY speakers (~1.7k€), but I chose the white corian finish instead. I think OGY wins for aesthetics!

That's common practice actually. And I even saw a pair of bookshelf speakers around 600€ which offers that option. The paint or varnish finish are typically the most affordable. Veneers cost more. It's rare to have hardwood or corian.

That‘s good news. OGY is made by Closer in Poland and sold direct. They do not appear to have any international distribution. The last piece of hifi I purchased was designed and made in Poland, sold through a dealer who provided me with a unit for a home trial.

Color options are extremely difficult to implement. Some companies do replaceable skins. The other one that comes to mind is Vivid Audio, like Wilson the extremely high quality finish comes at a price.

 

[Mart68]

Poor value for money isn't an objective criteria. Value judgments are subjective. You can rate value for money on any set of values you like. It could be performance against measured criteria, or it could be aesthetics (or something else). People often get confused because they value the former (an objective measurement) versus the latter (a subjective response) and assume that their value judgment itself also is objective. But the choice of what to value is inherently subjective, there is no escaping that.

The choice to value, say, a high Olive score based on Klippel measurement is fairly common here. Measured against that criteria the TuneTots have lower value for money that an equivalent or cheaper Genelec one series. But if you value particular visual aesthetics and/or haptics you may come up with a different result. For people who find the Genelec aesthetics unacceptable, then the value for money result is different.

These are hypothetical—albeit common—values, not mine specifically (I don't rule out Genelec one series due to aesthetics, for example). I'm simply commenting on the frequent mistake people make when invoking value for money. It always depends on what values you are comparing.

in terms of a fashion item like a Hermes scarf (as mentioned earlier) that's true.

In terms of a practical device, like a loudspeaker, then it isn't. If you can buy a device that performs the same task for a lot less then the expensive device is poor value.

I don't think this will be a poor performing loudspeaker. But since you can get a better performing loudspeaker for less money then it's poor value.

It's not like the visual aesthetic is anything special in any case and who in their right minds will pay $8K over the odds just because they like how it looks or to get it in a colour they want? There are other, better performing small two-way speakers that are available in a range of colours in any case, KEF LS50 Meta for example. Wilson is far from being the only game in town in that regard.

 

[fineMen]

The interesting part of this speaker review is the high subjective rating with eq, despite or because of some not perfect measurements.
... differences in perception of direct sound to diffuse sound due to the head related transfer functions is a hint ...
... directivity in this frequency range has to be adjusted differently according to ...
The ideal bass room curve...
The listening level and the level at which the recording was mixed is important ...
Therefore I think some judgements are way to narrow minded ...

removed

 

[Axo1989]

in terms of a fashion item like a Hermes scarf (as mentioned earlier) that's true.

In terms of a practical device, like a loudspeaker, then it isn't. If you can buy a device that performs the same task for a lot less then the expensive device is poor value.

I don't think this will be a poor performing loudspeaker. But since you can get a better performing loudspeaker for less money then it's poor value.

It's not like the visual aesthetic is anything special in any case and who in their right minds will pay $8K over the odds just because they like how it looks or to get it in a colour they want? There are other, better performing small two-way speakers that are available in a range of colours in any case, KEF LS50 Meta for example. Wilson is far from being the only game in town in that regard.

You're assuming "the same task" (the utilitarian function of re-producing an audio signal) is the only thing people value when considering a speaker. That isn't correct.

For example, we discussed Veblen goods a back on page 70 (to consider another extreme). Your final paragraph lays out some of your own value judgements. You are perfectly entitled to them, but they are neither comprehensive nor universal (nor objective).

 

[Mart68]

You're assuming "the same task" (the utilitarian function of re-producing an audio signal) is the only thing people value when considering a speaker. That isn't correct.

For example, we discussed Veblen goods a back on page 70 (to consider another extreme). Your final paragraph lays out some of your own value judgements. You are perfectly entitled to them, but they are neither comprehensive nor universal (nor objective).

No I'm not assuming that. My contention was that the speaker is poor value for money, this was made in reply to someone who said that the reason there is so much criticism of this speaker here is because we cannot afford to buy it.

I was just pointing out that we would not buy it even if the god Shiva gave us a million dollars and said 'Buy the speaker'. Because performance is not great and it is overpriced. Then we got into some hand waving about the aesthetics and that you can have your choice of colours, as though that was unique to this speaker, which it isn't.

For me I would not buy it even if it was the best speaker in the world and cost a hundred quid, since the name is an embarrassment.

'What speaker are you using these days?'

'Well, I'm using a small two-way speaker made by Wilson, comes in a range of colour, very good subjective reviews.'

'It's the 'Tune Tot' isn't it?'

 

[fineMen]

'It's the 'Tune Tot' isn't it?'

removed

 

[Valhalla]

More absolute Garbage from this site.
Lots of pretty graphs showing nonsense. Tons of issues, but let’s start with:
1. the ”robotic” NFS measurement device - you cannot accurately subtract room reflections from the direct sound measurement, which is why no real pros do this. The math quite frankly has not been invented yet to do this properly. So right off the bat, this “test” is a complete joke.
2. room temp was 14C? What? You don’t listen to a loudspeaker in 14C/57F rooms, they are designed for at least 18C. Normal room temp is 20C/68F
3. Aligned “by eye” to the speaker center, which the tester guessed -wrongly - is the tweeter. Wilson states the center is not the tweeter. Read the manual, for starters.

Most of this site is a DISASTER. It’s where those who can’t afford, or don’t want to, pay for high-end audio come to lament the fact that these products suck. So wrong. It’s actually laughable.

You guys have no idea what you’re missing out on!

Pure speculation comes up when someone believes to know more than Klippel. Take the lead'n go ahead and start your own acoustic measurement company as a service to humanity.

p.s: We're gonna need a good supply of popcorn bags

 

[Holmz]

... What drives people to try? I do not get it.

A Ferrari?

 

[kokakolia]

That‘s good news. OGY is made by Closer in Poland and sold direct. They do not appear to have any international distribution. The last piece of hifi I purchased was designed and made in Poland, sold through a dealer who provided me with a unit for a home trial.

Color options are extremely difficult to implement. Some companies do replaceable skins. The other one that comes to mind is Vivid Audio, like Wilson the extremely high quality finish comes at a price.

They use international shipping through FedEx. I live in France. Just send them an email if you're interested. But I digress. I don't want to advertise for them.

If you're in North America, then Tekton lets you pick any color you like for $45. The mini lore speakers are $600/pair.

Axiom has many color options for their $600 bookshelf speakers as well.

 

[Killingbeans]

If you want a small stylish speaker in maroon or navy blue to match the colour scheme of your office, kitchen or apartment, then it is not poor value for money.

Genelec 4420A or 4430A... just saying. PoE as bonus.

 

[Billy Budapest]

That‘s good news. OGY is made by Closer in Poland and sold direct. They do not appear to have any international distribution. The last piece of hifi I purchased was designed and made in Poland, sold through a dealer who provided me with a unit for a home trial.

Color options are extremely difficult to implement. Some companies do replaceable skins. The other one that comes to mind is Vivid Audio, like Wilson the extremely high quality finish comes at a price.

Now Vivid is a company I have some respect for.