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WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

Rate this streamer/DAC/Preamp:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 3 1.0%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 36 11.6%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 129 41.5%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 143 46.0%

  • Total voters
    311
That is not going to help much if the ultra USB is not an input. Or even if it were, that device is intended for USB hosts. (Like computers) not USB peripherals (Like Dacs)
I only tested it with an external HDD and that worked allright. But you're probably right.
 
It works for audio. I have one. It's not arc though.
Are you sure the converter does not create arc output from the toslink? That seems the logical thing for it to do, if not the specs on the ultra are confusing.
 
Are you sure the converter does not create arc output from the toslink? That seems the logical thing for it to do, if not the specs on the ultra are confusing.

I'm not 100%, no. But I don't get any arc features with that adapter. Just 2ch audio passed into the hdmi.
 
I'm sure this will not surprise anyone. I was able to compare Wiim room correction and DiracLive in two very small, reactive rooms.

DiracLive was substantially better in both. Wiim improved both but still had odd, harsh output that I did not like.

Again these are difficult rooms and Diraclive is at least a few hundred more, so we might expect this. I was hoping it would be closer.
 
Are you sure the converter does not create arc output from the toslink? That seems the logical thing for it to do, if not the specs on the ultra are confusing.
Which adapter are we talking about here? The Sonos one turns a toslink signal into HDMI ARC. The UGreen one is a USB hub and USB to HDMI video/audio output adapter.
 
Which adapter are we talking about here? The Sonos one turns a toslink signal into HDMI ARC. The UGreen one is a USB hub and USB to HDMI video/audio output adapter.
The Sonos one. They don't really say what it outputs, but the compatible devices are arc only, so it must emulate arc.
 
I can't understand your logic of adding another DAC in front of the Wiim Ultra, I think I have several different equipment and all supported on the Ultra, and again it comes back to my original question, which DAC, that would make an audible difference in relation to the Ultra.
Well, I totally agree with that.

Only consideration if one wants to use bit perfect signal, for example.

My Ifi Zen Signature V2 has a preamp function, so I can send WiiM streaming by usb port: in Stereo mode, Fixed volume and EQ Off it send bit perfect according to specifications.

Then I regulate volume with the preamp function on the Ifi Dac Zen, with the classic analogue volume knob. If not equalizing, I find bit perfect more detailed for good classical music or acoustic recordings.

Even equalizing, I do it always with negative gain, find better the direct digital fixed volume
 
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The Sonos one. They don't really say what it outputs, but the compatible devices are arc only, so it must emulate arc.
The audio signalling in ARC (but not eARC) is the same as spdif/toslink, just over a different electrical interface, so that part of the conversion should be easy. The question is how much of the discovery part it implements and sticks to, which may affect compatibility beyond Sonos products. The quirks and compatibility issues of ARC were one of the things they tried to improve in the eARC spec. I haven't gone looking for other similar adapters.
 
The audio signalling in ARC (but not eARC) is the same as spdif/toslink, just over a different electrical interface, so that part of the conversion should be easy. The question is how much of the discovery part it implements and sticks to, which may affect compatibility beyond Sonos products. The quirks and compatibility issues of ARC were one of the things they tried to improve in the eARC spec. I haven't gone looking for other similar adapters.
Does arc have mandatory formats? If so it probably just converts everything to one of those.
 
Does arc have mandatory formats? If so it probably just converts everything to one of those.
For receivers, 16 bit L-PCM stereo at all of 32kHz, 44.1kHz and 48kHz sample rates. For senders, at least one of those. Pretty much anything else you would send over spdif is optional, with discovery over CEC so that nothing is sent that the receiver can't handle. There's some control flow over CEC too, but I've not looked into that so not sure what's required and what's optional. It's also possible that Sonos do something proprietary in their receivers to make the adapter cheaper, like skipping the CEC stuff entirely for their adapter.
 
I think the Wiim Ultra is perfect with its inputs. I see a lot of people asking for more, which is normal, but for $300 it is a cheap and quality device, compared to devices that cost more than $2000. For example, I have a Meridan 508 CD Player connected to the Wiim, and I have a Rega P3 connected to the Wiim.

I operate the Wiim with Room, where I have a library of 5000 digitized CDs, all in Flac, which are on a Synology NAS that plays perfectly on the Room. I have the sound from the TV connected to the Wiim via the digital port. In my case, everything works very well without any flaws.

Before this set, I had a CXN V2, which is good. I compared the two. The CXN is good. In flat mode, both have a small difference, but nothing absurd. I still think the Wiim plays better.

But the Wiim has this point of equalization, which is simply fantastic, in addition to the room correction, which also works perfectly.

The CXN, in this case, is very limited. I tested the CDS playing directly to my MA 6800, on the Wiim it is better because of the equalization, the same occurs with the Rega P3...

Honestly I would like to see something better that costs up to 3,000 dollars that beats the quality of this small device of 300 dollars.
I wish to change a little bit my answer: the WiiM Ultra DAC is totally transparent but the problem is the “preamp”.

For best experience you can buy a WiiM Pro by 180€ and (for example) the Ifi Zen Dac Signature V2 which preamp section is perfectly fine.

My argument is that you better can send fixed volume bit perfect signal by the WiiM, or correct just a couple of low frequency issues with the EQ, and regulate volume at the Zen or other DAC-premp.

Honestly I feel way more better quality specially in complex orchestral recordings, with the direct output of the WiiM and even reducing signal on the adjustments, I feel is not enough. Don’t need to blind tests, is too much reduction of information sending to the amp, if you want a theoretical argument.

If you don’t want to sacrifice any entry as HDMI arc, then you can go with Ultra and another DAC preamp measured here. I had a couple at home, so to me is ok now without expending more money.

I definitely recommend WiiM Ultra as streamer, not as DAC/ preamp because of lacking a true preamp.
 
I wish to change a little bit my answer: the WiiM Ultra DAC is totally transparent but the problem is the “preamp”.

For best experience you can buy a WiiM Pro by 180€ and (for example) the Ifi Zen Dac Signature V2 which preamp section is perfectly fine.

My argument is that you better can send fixed volume bit perfect signal by the WiiM, or correct just a couple of low frequency issues with the EQ, and regulate volume at the Zen or other DAC-premp.

Honestly I feel way more better quality specially in complex orchestral recordings, with the direct output of the WiiM and even reducing signal on the adjustments, I feel is not enough. Don’t need to blind tests, is too much reduction of information sending to the amp, if you want a theoretical argument.

If you don’t want to sacrifice any entry as HDMI arc, then you can go with Ultra and another DAC preamp measured here. I had a couple at home, so to me is ok now without expending more money.

I definitely recommend WiiM Ultra as streamer, not as DAC/ preamp because of lacking a true preamp.
Hi, I'm sorry but this just doesn't make sense ...
If the WiiM Ultra affects sound so much that it is actually audible when compared to an inexpensive DAC then that difference would be very clearly demonstrated in the measurements.
If measurements cannot show the difference (I'm prepared to accept that for the sake of the argument) then the only other option to demonstrate that difference is a controlled listening test.

Don't take offence, but without evidence from measurements or from controlled listening I'm just going to ignore your opinion.
I don't doubt you - it's your opinion - but it can have no meaning to me.
 
Hi, I'm sorry but this just doesn't make sense ...
If the WiiM Ultra affects sound so much that it is actually audible when compared to an inexpensive DAC then that difference would be very clearly demonstrated in the measurements.
If measurements cannot show the difference (I'm prepared to accept that for the sake of the argument) then the only other option to demonstrate that difference is a controlled listening test.

Don't take offence, but without evidence from measurements or from controlled listening I'm just going to ignore your opinion.
I don't doubt you - it's your opinion - but it can have no meaning to me.
Not offended at all, but think there’s a little miss understanding on my post.

Each 6 dB you go down on the WiiM remote or the WiiM knob, or the WiiM app you will loose 1 bit of information.

This is a fact, not an opinion. And is true to every DAC, no matter the construction. You can in someway attenuate this by over sampling all to 24 bit/192 kHz which all modern DACs do.

But you still retouch and loose information as down as you low the volume, and increase the noise.

With a bit perfect (or close to bit perfect if you equalize some modes by lowering gain at the desired frequencies) you will send the most of the original digital data as possible.

The difference is not a game changer, many tracks have enough data at 12-13 bits to be totally satisfactory, but complex recordings (I mean many instrumentals playing at same time, tiny dynamic mattering, high dynamic range between sections) maybe desirable to have a true preamp (voltage analogue attenuator in this case) to preserve the most of the original. As an extreme, a 16 bit CD played at -60 dBFS sounds like a bad bluetooth.

I find simplicity very attractive, but WiiM lack a good preamp section: only works at 2, 1, 0.8, 0.5, and 0.2 mV and that’s all.

At best, in my setup I can choose the 0.5 V rms signal output and keep the digital volume at 85% or more, still I don’t exactly how much this is in terms of dBFS

POST EDITING: It would cost barely nothing to WiiM team to put an analogue volume knob on the front of the hub, and let the remote or the amp to work digitally. I was quite deceived when I learned my 400€ all-in-one was only a streamer-DAC. I don’t think they can consider that is a DAC-preamp because lacks of analogue section. One can always choose its best preference to treat signal with the 3 block DAC, preamp, amp…
 
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Not offended at all, but think there’s a little miss understanding on my post.

Each 6 dB you go down on the WiiM remote or the WiiM knob, or the WiiM app you will loose 1 bit of information.

This is a fact, not an opinion. And is true to every DAC, no matter the construction. You can in someway attenuate this by over sampling all to 24 bit/192 kHz which all modern DACs do.

But you still retouch and loose information as down as you low the volume, and increase the noise.

With a bit perfect (or close to bit perfect if you equalize some modes by lowering gain at the desired frequencies) you will send the most of the original digital data as possible.

The difference is not a game changer, many tracks have enough data at 12-13 bits to be totally satisfactory, but complex recordings (I mean many instrumentals playing at same time, tiny dynamic mattering, high dynamic range between sections) maybe desirable to have a true preamp (voltage analogue attenuator in this case) to preserve the most of the original. As an extreme, a 16 bit CD played at -60 dBFS sounds like a bad bluetooth.

I find simplicity very attractive, but WiiM lack a good preamp section: only works at 2, 1, 0.8, 0.5, and 0.2 mV and that’s all.

At best, in my setup I can choose the 0.5 V rms signal output and keep the digital volume at 85% or more, still I don’t exactly how much this is in terms of dBFS

POST EDITING: It would cost barely nothing to WiiM team to put an analogue volume knob on the front of the hub, and let the remote or the amp to work digitally. I was quite deceived when I learned my 400€ all-in-one was only a streamer-DAC. I don’t think they can consider that is a DAC-preamp because lacks of analogue section. One can always choose its best preference to treat signal with the 3 block DAC, preamp, amp…
Thanks for that, and you are right, I did partially misunderstand your post. I appreciate your explanation.

I also don't really understand it ( :) ) and I'm hoping that some members will comment from a technical point of view. Is this something that applies to all digital volume control, or just to the WiiM implementation? I find it very strange (not impossible) that this wasn't called out in measurements.

I do, however, stand by my original view that if there is a difference it has to be demonstrated by measurements or by controlled listening.

I really appreciate your reply - that's interesting. I'm off to read more!
 
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