Wiim announce WiiM Amp Ultra

[ericthefish]

For anyone who has this unit already-

Given that two reviewers have now mentioned the Amp Ultra seems not as powerful (Erin + Cheap Audio Man)- Is there a possibility of a firmware or hardware issue with this amp? It should be more powerful than a Vibelink, not less... (Right?). I.e. maybe the ARC connection has a limiter in it or something?

(taken with the appropriate amount of salt, obviously not a quantified test... but just thought it was interesting he noted the same thing as Erin.)

-E

 

[harkpabst]

That's interesting, but I cannot follow Randy at all. My WiiM Amp Ultra sounds every bit as dynamic as my Ultra + Vibelink Amp. At least as dynamic. Sorry.

Erin did measure the output into 4 ohms to be > 200 Watt. He felt it wouldn't get as loud as expected when using HDMI as an input (I'm sure he didn't use HDMI for his power measurements), but I still think that this is a matter of most HDMI ARC outputs being low in volume. So, if anything, the gain might not be sufficient to get the full power from low level sources.

For these cases there is still pre-gain ...

 

[ericthefish]

Yeah, I totally understand that. He was kind of my gateway into more HiFi recently but haven't been watching him as much lately. I have an Amp Pro right now, which I really like- just trying to see if it is worth an upgrade. And if so, whether to do an Ultra + a dedicated amp (Vibelink or 3E/other) OR the Amp Ultra...

I will impatiently wait for more measurements... .

 

[defec1]

I wish that they'd feed it with another source to see if the volume issue is consistent or not.

 

[dominikz]

Erin did measure the output into 4 ohms to be > 200 Watt. He felt it wouldn't get as loud as expected when using HDMI as an input (I'm sure he didn't use HDMI for his power measurements)

The written review if up on EAC.
We can see there that Erin used the WiiM Amp Ultra analog input to measure. I suspect THD and noise would be lower in most of the tests if one of the digital inputs was used instead (e.g. optical).

 

[harkpabst]

The written review if up on EAC.
We can see there that Erin used the WiiM Amp Ultra analog input to measure. I suspect THD and noise would be lower in most of the tests if one of the digital inputs was used instead (e.g. optical).

That supports my point.

If the amp can easily crank out >200 W even using the line input, then too low an SPL reading when fed through HDMI ARC is surely not due to a lack of power or PSU limitations.

Btw., the WiiM Amp Ultra is actually specified to work into 2 ohms (unlike any other WiiM amplifier), so it'd better be stable ...

 

[dominikz]

I wish that they'd feed it with another source to see if the volume issue is consistent or not.

Erin published a very nice YT video a day ago discussing how amplifier power translates into SPL levels (link), and which main variables affect the level you get.

Below the video there is a pinned comment where Erin states:

(...)
Finally, keep in mind the more links you have in the chain (pre-amp, TV, separate DAC, etc), the more you'll need to be mindful of proper gain structure. If, for example, you use a pre-amp that doesn't have it's gain adequately set you may not be getting the full power of your system. I ran into this recently with the WiiM Amp Ultra review where the HDMI source gain was too low and I couldn't get the volume I wanted. I didn't know the HDMI had its own gain structure and I was alerted to this by other WiiM owners. I made the necessary adjustments and had plenty of volume afterward.
(...)

So as has been said by other members, there is really no issue with power from WiiM Amp Ultra - it is just that some sources have low output level which limits how much of the available power you can use. Luckily, this is pretty easy to compensate for with pre-gain (which can be configured per input in WiiM devices).

 

[Matt_Holland]

Erin published a very nice YT video a day ago discussing how amplifier power translates into SPL levels (link), and which main variables affect the level you get.

Below the video there is a pinned comment where Erin states:


So as has been said by other members, there is really no issue with power from WiiM Amp Ultra - it is just that some sources have low output level which limits how much of the available power you can use. Luckily, this is pretty easy to compensate for with pre-gain (which can be configured per input in WiiM devices).

Agree. And on that basis I think Erin you update his review because as it stands it’s quite negative probably based on using a low level HDMI source.

 

[harkpabst]

I still don't follow Erin's reasoning for making A-weighted measurements. I can see where he's coming from and value his good intentions. But in the end a) we always listen to our systems in a room and room gain is usually welcome (so there's no point in trying to filter out this influence) and b) it's the bass where most of the power is needed and most of the SPL is created with music.

But at least he's following a structured an repeatable approach.

So as has been said by other members, there is really no issue with power from WiiM Amp Ultra - it is just that some sources have low output level which limits how much of the available power you can use. Luckily, this is pretty easy to compensate for with pre-gain (which can be configured per input in WiiM devices).

And - probably even more important - Erin has no problem admitting a mistake or an oversight. That's not only really cool, that's how we learn.

Unfortunately I keep forgetting his weird nickname in this forum, so I cannot tag him.

 

[Matt_Holland]

I still don't follow Erin's reasoning for making A-weighted measurements. I can see where he's coming from and value his good intentions. But in the end a) we always listen to our systems in a room and room gain is usually welcome (so there's no point in trying to filter out this influence) and b) it's the bass where most of the power is needed and most of the SPL is created with music.

But at least he's following a structured an repeatable approach.


And - probably even more important - Erin has no problem admitting a mistake or an oversight. That's not only really cool, that's how we learn.

Unfortunately I keep forgetting his weird nickname in this forum, so I cannot tag him.

@hardisj

Not sure if he’s still a member here as the name didn’t tag.

 

[staticV3]

Member yes, but no longer active after violating forum rules (repeatedly linking to his own, external monetized content)

 

[Matt_Holland]

Member yes, but no longer active after violating forum rules (repeatedly linking to his own, external monetized content)

Such a shame he couldn’t stick to the rules as I think most would agree his contributions would be valuable

 

[jinza]

Yeah, I totally understand that. He was kind of my gateway into more HiFi recently but haven't been watching him as much lately. I have an Amp Pro right now, which I really like- just trying to see if it is worth an upgrade. And if so, whether to do an Ultra + a dedicated amp (Vibelink or 3E/other) OR the Amp Ultra...

I will impatiently wait for more measurements... .

I’m in a similar situation, at least I’m weighing up whether to buy the Amp Pro or the Amp Ultra to pair with Dali Oberon 5s and potentially a sub. (connected to a TV, 50-50 between TV & streaming Spotify, listening at low to medium volumes mostly)

Anyone wanna share their thoughts on this?

Also wondering if the Amp Ultra has better bass correction / room correction / EQ. I can’t seem to find any info on this.

 

[Burnside]

I’m in a similar situation, at least I’m weighing up whether to buy the Amp Pro or the Amp Ultra to pair with Dali Oberon 5s and potentially a sub. (connected to a TV, 50-50 between TV & streaming Spotify, listening at low to medium volumes mostly)

Anyone wanna share their thoughts on this?

Maybe ask in the WiiM forum where you’ll see comments like this:

Post in thread 'WiiM Amp Ultra: Performance Meets Precision'
https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/wiim-amp-ultra-performance-meets-precision.7167/post-133221

Also wondering if the Amp Ultra has better bass correction / room correction / EQ. I can’t seem to find any info on this.

Identical across the WiiM range (except those without a sub connection obviously)

 

[Alexx]

Sorry.

In theory, isn't it always better to have two separate devices? The Wiim Ultra as a streamer preamplifier and the Wiim Vibelink as a power amp.

If you choose an all-in-one solution for convenience, I think the Wiim Amp Ultra is perfect. It also needs to have the same power as the Vibelink, and it uses the same power amps and amplification system, if I'm not mistaken.

I bought two separate devices; they're small and manageable. I spent more, but I preferred the solution with separate components, also due to overheating and temperature issues.
Thanks.

 

[Matt_Holland]

In theory, isn't it always better to have two separate devices?

The only thing that matters is performance (assuming features are the same). We can measure performance so theory not needed.

I bought two separate devices; they're small and manageable. I spent more, but I preferred the solution with separate components, also due to overheating and temperature issues.
Thanks.

Did you experience overheating issues with the Amp Ultra? But sure, Ultra + Vibelink offers more features, so it’s a good choice.

 

[harkpabst]

It also needs to have the same power as the Vibelink, and it uses the same power amps and amplification system, if I'm not mistaken.

Actually, the power amp section of the WiiM Amp Ultra is the more sophisticated design. Unlike the Vibelink Amp it uses dual TPA3255 chips, obviously in PTBL configuration. Consequentially, the Amp Ultra is officially specified to support 2 ohm loads while the Vibelink Amp is specified down to 3 ohm.

As demonstrated e.g. in Erin's review the WiiM Amp Ultra still doesn't give a meaningful increase in power into 2 ohm over 4 ohm, which means that it's probably limited by its PSU. But at least it's designed to remain stable.

Nothing wrong with picking the Ultra + Vibelink Amp combo over the Amp Ultra. It really just depends on your needs regarding features, flexibility, etc.

 

[Alexx]

I've never had the chance to try the Wiim Amp Ultra, but like all multifunctional devices, it will have components closer together in a very small space.

It needs to power the streamer board, the display, and the power amps, and I believe it requires a larger power supply to handle all of these things at once. It will inevitably generate more heat.

Certainly, if you don't have the space to fit it, it's an excellent solution, also because it reduces the amount of cables tangled around. However, since they're two small 20x20cm boxes, I didn't have any major problems positioning them on the cabinet, and I preferred this option.

For example, if I had a NAD 268 plus a NAD preamp, I would definitely have gotten the NAD 399 for greater convenience, but we're talking about very different dimensions.

Thanks.

 

[Matt_Holland]

I've never had the chance to try the Wiim Amp Ultra, but like all multifunctional devices, it will have components closer together in a very small space.

Yes, but is that a problem?
Does the likelihood of super short signal paths not appeal to you?

It needs to power the streamer board, the display, and the power amps, and I believe it requires a larger power supply to handle all of these things at once. It will inevitably generate more heat.


Thanks.

How do you know? Is your concern with reliability or performance?

 

[somebodyelse]

It needs to power the streamer board, the display, and the power amps, and I believe it requires a larger power supply to handle all of these things at once. It will inevitably generate more heat.

To put that extra power in perspective, the Ultra (streamer not Amp Ultra) draws ~5W at the wall.