WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

[Abdo]

What's the max bitrate capability of the USB output? I am having trouble confirming this. I'm just looking for a high quality device to run Roon --> USB output --> DAC.

I use the Wiim Ultra running Room and use the RCA output from the Wiim directly to my MA6800 (analog)

 

[D700]

@amirm a related topic to question above on USB output....is there a metric in your review that illustrates quality of the volume control in the Ultra? Is there a way to measure that or extrapolate?

I'd like to know if the DSP in the Ultra is of sufficient quality to provide max headroom via coax/digital output to a high quality DAC? I'm considering a Wiim Ultra>Benchmark DAC3 B>AHB2 stack. I am interested in subwoofer management and Room correction; the Ultra seems to be punching well above its weight class feature-wise.

High quality dac/amplification with inexpensive, feature rich, no compromise streamer appeals to me (Where art thou MySqueezebox?)

Above question informed by: John Siau on Volume Control Technologies

 

[Miguelón]

The benefit of running a DAC into Wiim, rather than Wiim into the DAC is you can use Wiim's RC.

You can correct on the WiiM and send the digital file to the DAC via usb: why doing it reversal?

 

[Miguelón]

This is always my question and I still have many doubts, why have the Wiim Ultra and not use it as a DAC ... ??
I use the Wiim Ultra for MC 6800 and that's it, nothing else gets in the way ... it works perfectly.
My doubt always persists if a DAC would sound better, but I have already received help from friends here saying that I would not be able to gain hearing.

There’s no reason to use an external DAC with the WiiM, unless you have very long cables and need balanced outputs.

WiiM improves DAC section with respect to Pro Plus for using as an all-in-one unit.

 

[Brian Hall]

Wouldn’t the more typical use be to treat the Wiim as a source and thence to a preamp to accommodate any extra sources? Doubling up on DACs can only be deleterious, surely?

The Wiim Ultra does not provide a USB C or Coax input. I hooked up a Schiit Modi+ that I had laying around for USB C and Coax inputs and plugged the RCA outs into the Wiim's analog inputs. It works great.

 

[Miguelón]

The Wiim Ultra does not provide a USB C or Coax input. I hooked up a Schiit Modi+ that I had laying around for USB C and Coax inputs and plugged the RCA outs into the Wiim's analog inputs. It works great.

Why not using simply the WiiM’s DAC?

 

[Abdo]

Why not using simply the WiiM’s DAC?

This is my question, I think I've asked it twice, and simply because those who insist on putting in a $2,000 DAC... I would like to know if these people have already tested using this DAC and how much the best 'audible' sound was...

 

[mlsstl]

This is my question, I think I've asked it twice, and simply because those who insist on putting in a $2,000 DAC... I would like to know if these people have already tested using this DAC and how much the best 'audible' sound was...

Before the Ultra, I had a RPi sending its signal via USB output to a Schiit Multibit DAC card in my Lyr preamp. I set up the Ultra and synced its playback and volume with the Multibit DAC so that I would switch back and forth between the two. After extended listing, both quick A/B switches and longer sessions for each, I was unable to spot an audible difference between the two DACs.

I recognize that listening experience is only valid for me, but I've been very happy with the Ultra as streamer, DAC and preamp.

 

[ivanj]

@amirm a related topic to question above on USB output....is there a metric in your review that illustrates quality of the volume control in the Ultra? Is there a way to measure that or extrapolate?

I'd like to know if the DSP in the Ultra is of sufficient quality to provide max headroom via coax/digital output to a high quality DAC? I'm considering a Wiim Ultra>Benchmark DAC3 B>AHB2 stack. I am interested in subwoofer management and Room correction; the Ultra seems to be punching well above its weight class feature-wise.

High quality dac/amplification with inexpensive, feature rich, no compromise streamer appeals to me (Where art thou MySqueezebox?)

Above question informed by: John Siau on Volume Control Technologies

I use the WiiM USB output to my DAC3B through the cable Benchmark Media provided. I haven't looked into the WiiM DSP yet nor do I know if it works on the signal going to the DAC3B via USB. Will it?

I am primarily interested in the 3dB headroom provided by the Benchmark not distorting signals from old 48 and 44.1k-48k and poorer digital recordings streamed. For shiny CDs, I have my SACD/CD player hooked into the DAC3B through the coaxial interface for CDs; I use the balanced outputs from the SACD/CD player for SACDs into the LA4 preamp.

In all these use cases, one can hear a sensible difference for the better.

NB: Why QoBuz is granting 44.1k / 24 bit recordings the appellation 'hi res' is beyond me.

 

[Chester]

The benefit of running a DAC into Wiim, rather than Wiim into the DAC is you can use Wiim's RC.

I thought the Wiim’s digital outs also benefited from RC?

 

[sapphari]

I thought the Wiim’s digital outs also benefited from RC?

You are the second person who has suggested this since my post. I'm unsure, but given your and the other reply, it seems like it just might.

 

[Miguelón]

This is my question, I think I've asked it twice, and simply because those who insist on putting in a $2,000 DAC... I would like to know if these people have already tested using this DAC and how much the best 'audible' sound was...

I have an Ifi Zen Dac Signature V2, my monitors are Genelec G Three (same as 8030C but with RCA and XLR inputs).

I cannot distinguish between WiiM and Ifi, connected by RCA to the Genelecs.

If I can find a very tiny difference is connecting by XLR the Ifi Zen, but in the sense that is not as good as the direct RCA connection.

Maybe my imagination though, is very subtle. Genelecs are quite sensitive, to match voltage outputs I should use the preamp mode in Ifi Zen Signature, which changes slightly the tonality. I don’t know why, perhaps the preamp is not totally transparent.

I have also an audio interface Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 4th gen, again with balanced outputs to XLR and same sensation of extra warmth added by Focusrite, the more I attenuate the output on the preamp section.

All of this can be explained by psychological suggestion though, and very subtle except on the Focusrite which is definitively more warm, perhaps the filter is different.

My best impression is by direct connection WiiM => Genelecs or Ifi Zen RCA => Genelec RCA. Totally unable to distinguish.

Since I prefer simple things, I use the first option, only WiiM and Genelecs G Three.

On the other hand WiiM Ultra DAC has been measured in its DAC section, 120 dB SINAD and perfectly flat so I think it is not possible to discern which DAC is working, whatever the price of the other device.

As I mentioned, only with preamps I feel some little tiny warmth but I’m not totally sure.

 

[Miguelón]

I haven't looked into the WiiM DSP yet nor do I know if it works on the signal going to the DAC3B via USB. Will it?

It works perfectly, you can do Room correction or EQ in the WiiM and it will transmit the modified data through usb or SPDIF

 

[Nopiano]

The Wiim Ultra does not provide a USB C or Coax input. I hooked up a Schiit Modi+ that I had laying around for USB C and Coax inputs and plugged the RCA outs into the Wiim's analog inputs. It works great.

I see. As I have no sources that *have* to use those inputs that possibility hadn’t occurred to me, although I would have preferred to use my Tascam CD player with its digital coax output rather than via optical. Wiim are very good to include those cables! (I have the Wiim Pro Plus but I don’t think the Ultra is different for inputs)

I would definitely prefer an analogue input to stay that way in any preamp, but I realise one cannot have digital EQ without another ADC > DAC loop.

 

[D700]

I use the WiiM USB output to my DAC3B through the cable Benchmark Media provided. I haven't looked into the WiiM DSP yet nor do I know if it works on the signal going to the DAC3B via USB. Will it?

I am primarily interested in the 3dB headroom provided by the Benchmark not distorting signals from old 48 and 44.1k-48k and poorer digital recordings streamed. For shiny CDs, I have my SACD/CD player hooked into the DAC3B through the coaxial interface for CDs; I use the balanced outputs from the SACD/CD player for SACDs into the LA4 preamp.

In all these use cases, one can hear a sensible difference for the better.

NB: Why QoBuz is granting 44.1k / 24 bit recordings the appellation 'hi res' is beyond me.

You have my goal system! I have saved up for the AHB2 and a DAC3B, going to sell everything else. Can’t swing for the LA4 at moment, hence my questions. I will only ever stream going forward, no disk players or analog, so conceivably I could use volume controls on Wii. I’m also considering Eversolo instead of D3 but I’m drawn to Benchmarks products and approach.

Yeah, room correction and volume control would modify the signal in digital domain before going to DAC unless using pass through, from what I’ve read.

 

[Abdo]

I see. As I have no sources that *have* to use those inputs that possibility hadn’t occurred to me, although I would have preferred to use my Tascam CD player with its digital coax output rather than via optical. Wiim are very good to include those cables! (I have the Wiim Pro Plus but I don’t think the Ultra is different for inputs)

I would definitely prefer an analogue input to stay that way in any preamp, but I realise one cannot have digital EQ without another ADC > DAC loop.

I think the Wiim Ultra is perfect with its inputs. I see a lot of people asking for more, which is normal, but for $300 it is a cheap and quality device, compared to devices that cost more than $2000. For example, I have a Meridan 508 CD Player connected to the Wiim, and I have a Rega P3 connected to the Wiim.

I operate the Wiim with Room, where I have a library of 5000 digitized CDs, all in Flac, which are on a Synology NAS that plays perfectly on the Room. I have the sound from the TV connected to the Wiim via the digital port. In my case, everything works very well without any flaws.

Before this set, I had a CXN V2, which is good. I compared the two. The CXN is good. In flat mode, both have a small difference, but nothing absurd. I still think the Wiim plays better.

But the Wiim has this point of equalization, which is simply fantastic, in addition to the room correction, which also works perfectly.

The CXN, in this case, is very limited. I tested the CDS playing directly to my MA 6800, on the Wiim it is better because of the equalization, the same occurs with the Rega P3...

Honestly I would like to see something better that costs up to 3,000 dollars that beats the quality of this small device of 300 dollars.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

I think the Wiim Ultra is perfect with its inputs. I see a lot of people asking for more, which is normal, but for $300 it is a cheap and quality device, compared to devices that cost more than $2000.

I think a key issue here is that the WiiM is designating the Ultra as a digital hub. And since most everyone's DAC already supports USB, Optical, and Coax input, the WiiM Ultra falls short on this front since it means that a person needs to add a DAC and/or digital audio switching device in front the the Ultra for several normative use cases.

Contrast that with the WiiM Mini and WiiM Pros, which are designated as a network streamer. In that case, additional inputs aren't as core since it would be expected that the network streamer as front-end would in turn feed into whatever is being used as the digital hub for that person.

 

[Abdo]

I think a key issue here is that the WiiM is designating the Ultra as a digital hub. And since most everyone's DAC already supports USB, Optical, and Coax input, the WiiM Ultra falls short on this front since it means that a person needs to add a DAC and/or digital audio switching device in front the the Ultra for several normative use cases.

Contrast that with the WiiM Mini and WiiM Pros, which are designated as a network streamer. In that case, additional inputs aren't as core since it would be expected that the network streamer as front-end would in turn feed into whatever is being used as the digital hub for that person.

I can't understand your logic of adding another DAC in front of the Wiim Ultra, I think I have several different equipment and all supported on the Ultra, and again it comes back to my original question, which DAC, that would make an audible difference in relation to the Ultra.

 

[Emlin]

I can't understand your logic of adding another DAC in front of the Wiim Ultra, I think I have several different equipment and all supported on the Ultra, and again it comes back to my original question, which DAC, that would make an audible difference in relation to the Ultra.

I agree about the lack of logic. And there is no DAC, except a broken one, that could make an audible difference.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

I can't understand your logic of adding another DAC in front of the Wiim Ultra, I think I have several different equipment and all supported on the Ultra, and again it comes back to my original question, which DAC, that would make an audible difference in relation to the Ultra.

My comment was another DAC or digital switching device. For example, neither the USB output from my laptop nor the coax output from my CD player can be plugged directly into the WiiM Ultra without some other device in between. If the WiiM Ultra is to be my digital hub, I shouldn't need additional hardware for those very usual items in a home audio environment.

In terms of sound difference, I don't think there is any difference at all that will be noticeable on your speakers, playing in your room, and being processed by your ears.