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WiiM Pro - Review & Measurements (Streamer)

Joffy1780

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yet another slow roll out of promised features.

Sorry, my misunderstanding of what bit perfect means.
is it as transparent as any other digital eq?
on the Wiim website I think it may refer to the non graphical eq as 10 band.

do you know by any chance of the limits of Roon eq function in comparison.
does the Wiim pro eq apply on top of the Roon eq when playing on the device.
and is there any significant impact on fidelity.
I don't agree with the slow roll out comment, but yes it is as transparent as any digital EQ.
The Roon EQ is far more sophisticated and neither would have a significant negative impact on fidelity.
Not sure about whether the Wiim would apply it's EQ on top of Roon's EQ, but I doubt it.
The graphic EQ is 10 bands currently, the PEQ is 4 bands currently, but will soon be increased to 10 bands (beta testing is about to start).
 

Overseas

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In my case, see previous 1-2 pages (device connection failed), after checking the source album etc, WIIM support recommended using 2.4ghz Wifi, not 5ghz.
So, is this a problem of MY network or what?
 

Ralph_Cramden

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Jimbob54

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do you know by any chance of the limits of Roon eq function in comparison
roon DSP is far more sophisticated , more bands ,can do channel delays , crossfeed etc .

does the Wiim pro eq apply on top of the Roon eq when playing on the device.
If eq is switched on on the wiim, yes. It won't know the stream incoming from Roon is eqd or not , it will just apply the filters you have set to that stream same as any others. You could test that easily enough by adding a 5 dB bass boost on Roon and on the wiim . You should easily hear the change between both sets of eq off, one on and both on .
 

nanook

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Correct, and the digital volume control from spdif output seems to be with true 24 bit resolution - very good. :)
I'm also planning to use the WIIM Pro together with a D-6s as separate DAC connected to SPDIF (Toslink or coax).
For me (more specifically: for my wife) it is very important, that I can use the volume control provided in e.g. Spotify Android App / Windows volume control / Youtube volume control / etc. . To be more precise: I do not want to use the volume control on the WIIM unit or in the WIIM control App.
Having 24bit depth on the digital outputs will be good enough for a limited amount of attenuation.

Background: When using the LS-Teufel / Raumfeld "Connector2" with e.g. Spotify, I can control the volume from the Spotify Android App, but only when using the analog output of the Connector2. When I connect an external DAC via Toslink, the volume control in the Spotify App does not work anymore.
It seems, the Connector2 uses the volume information from the Spotify App to steer the digital volume control in the DAC-chip, such that the digital signal (SPDIF , Toslink) does not get attenuated.

I'm sure this question has been posted already, but answers often were vague regarding which volume control was used.
I'd be very pleased if someone can confirm / turn down the statement "Spotify volume control works with WIIM Pro + external DAC"
 

Jimbob54

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@nanook Android phone, Spotify connect to wiim pro, phone vol buttons /app volume adjusts volume without touching wiim app or the pro itself.
 

Jimbob54

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Thanks a lot :)
Does this also work with an external DAC connected to SPDIF or Toslink?
Yes, exactly what I was doing.

Make sure something is protecting your ears /speakers /headphones from getting a full blast if the slider is accidentally maxed though. For me the Wiim feeds a dac where I have variable output so I cap volume there.
 

nanook

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Yes, exactly what I was doing.
@Jimbob54 : Thanks a lot ! This was exactly the information I needed :)
So obviously the WIIIM has enough computing power to perform the volume control (and the EQ) using the microcontroller.

EDIT: I'm using the analog volume control of the active speakers to limit the maximum level to be fine for the speakers and my ears.
 

Jimbob54

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@Jimbob54 : Thanks a lot ! This was exactly the information I needed :)
So obviously the WIIIM has enough computing power to perform the volume control (and the EQ) using the microcontroller.
Yes, but see my edit regarding protection.
 

nanook

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@Jimbob54 : Thanks again for the reliable information. This helped me to move on finally.
I ordered the unit today - already received it. It works like a charm, setting up was straight forward and the volume control works in all applications I tried for analog as well as for digital out.
Just like you confirmed :)
 

Jimbob54

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@Jimbob54 : Thanks again for the reliable information. This helped me to move on finally.
I ordered the unit today - already received it. It works like a charm, setting up was straight forward and the volume control works in all applications I tried for analog as well as for digital out.
Just like you confirmed :)
No problem. Enjoy
 

Endibol

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WiiM Pro - Review & Measurements

View attachment 265790

Hey folks,

It is time for my first review of 2023... This one is about a complete objective analysis of the new WiiM Pro streamer. The aforementioned has been recently announced, back in November 2022, and I can see quite a strong hype around it since. That is really not surprising : the WiiM Pro comes with a lot of promises : It is claimed to be a "bitperfect" streamer transport, as was the WiiM Mini, now with the addition of cool features, like some S/PDIF pass-trough, Google Chromecast built-in, or (yet to be added) Multiroom and Roon Ready support.

At only 179€, it may sound like real bargain, especially when considering this could be the cheapest Roon Ready product ever. It is important to point out that the latter function is still not available by the time of this writing, even after the last (02/15/2023) update. The WiiM team publishes and constantly updates their roadmap on their website (which is rather uncommon from most manufacturers, and as such, welcomed), and the WiiM Pro appears to be currently under certification with Roon. Please note that Roon users may already use the WiiM Pro, when selecting it as a Roon Endpoint (through Chromecast).

These asides, it mostly has the same features, and presumably the same DAC and ADC chips, as the WiiM Mini, but with extended connectivity. By bringing such a complete unit to the market, there is no doubt that WiiM is aiming to compete against well-installed and popular products like the Bluesound Node, but at almost 1/4 of the price. Speaking of price, I bought myself this sample, tested today, on Amazon. By the way, availability is yet to be optimized, especially in EU.​

View attachment 265796

The WiiM Pro comes in a little and quite light plastic box. While I did not expect much in terms of overall build and finish, considering the features/price ratio, I am still kind of disappointed. The plastic feels a bit cheap on touch and I don't like the grey tone and texture. However, I appreciate the non-slip covering beneath it, that allows the unit to remain stable when plugging cables or using the touch buttons. As you can see, these are four, for either volume control up and down, play/pause and preset. I found them to be decently responsive, but pressing them doesn't display anything, unless the main LED that is blinking. Not sure if these will be used much, since the unit has to be entirely controlled by the App anyway.​

View attachment 265797

On the back, I am please to see a rich connectivity for such a small unit. We got both RCA inputs and outputs, two optical sockets (in and out), one coaxial output, a 12V trigger out, wired LAN input, and a mic, probably to be used for Alexa or any assistant (I do not use these). The power is done by the USB-C input (USB cable and 5V/2A adapter supplied). I also like to not have any antenna, when knowing the WiiM Pro also supports both Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. By the way, I encountered no range issues, cuts, nor skipping, when using these two wireless inputs. It supports up to 24bits / 192kHz with Wi-Fi, Optical and Coaxial or 96kHz for Chromecast. Bluetooth (5.1) is unfortunately limited to AAC and SBC codecs.​

This is how the WiiM Home App looks like :

View attachment 267372

While this review is largely measurements-based, I used the WiiM Pro in my system during about a week, which is enough to share my two cents. I liked using it. It worked. That is it.

More seriously, yes, I have to admit I was a bit scared about getting something... more flawed. When you launch such a packed product at this price, then compromises are done, and software is usually the first victim... Well, not here ! The app is overall pleasantly stable and smooth. I like to see some cool additions like the bitrate to be displayed (like does UAPP). What I did not was the absence of "melting" artists and albums between different streaming services (as does Roon) when using the search button. I would also wish for a clearer way of displaying outputs and inputs settings. Apart from that nitpicking, WiiM Home does not compare unfavourably to other ecosystem on the market like BluOs, HEOS, MusicCast, StreamMagic and so on. In fact, I even preferred it over some of the aforementioned.

WiiM Home asides, the WiiM Pro (through Chromecast) worked flawlessly when controlled by either Tidal Connect, Qobuz Connect, and Roon.

These being said, it is now time for...

Measurements

Disclaimer: Measurements you are about to see are not intended to be as precise or extensive than what you get from a 30k€ AP. There is obviously both hardware and software limitations here, so not quite apples to apples comparison with Amir's testing. Still, this data is enough to have a pretty good idea if the gear is bad or not, stellar, broken, or sub-par...

- Instruments : E1DA Cosmos ADC (Grade B). Minimum phase filter. A newcomer is the RME ADI-2/4 PRO SE, which, 1) does a better job measuring unbalanced and low level signals, 2) may record and measure digital signals. E1DA Cosmos APU 60dB preamp is used for DR measurements. Output voltage is measured separately, using a DMM with a 0dBFS 1kHz tone.
- Software : REW V5.20.14, Multitone Loopback Analyzer 1.0.74 and RMAA 6.4.5 PRO,
- Method : 8 runs for each test, then I choose the closest to the average. Bandwidth and sampling rate to be specified for each test.
- WiiM Pro is running 4.8.507636 firmware. Output, input and setting to be specified below.​


DAC Performance
View attachment 265838
Let's start with the DAC performance. For this first battery of tests, I measured the WiiM pro through its RCA output, set at fixed level, 2Vrms. Digital input is S/PDIF optical.

WiiM Pro - DAC Summary
Tests
Results
Rating
Frequency Response 40Hz; 15kHz​
-0.02; +0.05dB​
Very Good
Noise Level (REW)​
-110.9dBA​
Very Good
Dynamic Range (REW)​
104.3dB​
Good
THD (REW)​
0.003427%​
Good
THD+Noise / SINAD (REW)​
-88.8dB​
Subpar
IMD SMPTE (REW)​
-77.5dB​
Subpar
Stereo crosstalk (RMAA)​
-109.8dB​
Very Good
IMD+Noise at 10 kHz (RMAA)​
0.0118%​
Average
Multitone 64 TD+N (Multitone)​
-82.9dB​
Average

Note: In addition to the supplied USB adapter, I also tested the WiiM Pro with two different USB chargers, from either Google Pixel or Xiaomi, then with a 5V/2.4A battery/power bank. So far, I measured absolutely no difference to speak about (at least not in the 20Hz-20kHz range). That being said, every measurement to come have all been done with the battery.​

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266148

Note: SINAD performance is 100% the same when using the Wi-Fi input.​

Frequency Response - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266151

Noise Level - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266149

Dynamic Range - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266152

Intermodulation Distortion SMPTE - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266153

Intermodulation Distortion SMPTE Versus Level - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266154

Jitter - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266155

Multitone 64 - 24b/192kHz
View attachment 266160

Intermodulation Distortion + Noise (sweep) - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266158

Crosstalk - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266159
What to say? The whole performance seems to be very similar to WiiM Mini, apart from Dynamic Range. Meaning: not quite OK. Overall, while far from being catastrophic, we are expecting much better by 2023 standards. Yes, some may point to the price, but no, we have seen cheaper unit performing better than this. Yes, not as features-packed, but at least suitable/transparent enough for 16 bits, what is not even the case here. At least, I cannot point one particular result showing a "broken" product (except IMD VS Level that is particularly poor, though) I would say that it is "cohesively subpar" performance... But, at least, the results are still a bit above manufacturer's specs: -86dB THD+N, 102dB SNR.​


Line Out Level
The WiiM Pro also comes with four selectable (fixed) output levels. While I did not test precisely the behaviour of digital attenuation at different level in the analog domain, (but I did catch THD+N at different digital volume below), I measured each of the output settings and expected a logical drop in performance. Yet, for some reason, the opposite happened:​
2Vrms : -88.8dB THD+N
1Vrms : -92.8dB THD+N
800mV : -93.1dB THD+N
500mV : -93.2dB THD+N

Finally, the best performance I could have measure out of the DAC has been when set at 0.5Vrms:​

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/44.1kHz



ADC Performance
For these next bunch of tests, I compared the exact same analog signal, which is the RCA output of my Matrix Mini-i Pro 3, first measured by the ADC of the ADI-2/4 PRO SE, then measured by the ADC of the WiiM Pro (and finally, the latter digitally recorded by the ADI-2/4 through S/PDIF). The obvious purpose is to observe how the WiiM Pro performs against a much higher end ADC. While being not Sate Of The Art, I considered the Matrix to be clean enough (about 109dB SINAD, SE) to not bottleneck the ADC performance of the WiiM Pro. And trust me, it did not !

Note: The WiiM pro cannot handle input signals when slightly above 1Vrms, which is according to manufacturer's specs. After quite a few tests, I lowered the Matrix's output down to 1.05Vrms to get the best case scenario in terms of performance.

WiiM Pro - ADC Summary
Tests
Reference 1.05Vrms output
ADC
Frequency Response 40Hz; 15kHz​
+0.01, -0.02​
+0.01, -0.05​
Noise level​
-115.1dBA​
-97.1dBA​
Dynamic range​
113.5dB​
92.4dB​
THD + Noise / SINAD​
-109.8dB​
-88.8dB​
IMD SMPTE​
-103.5dB​
-80.2dB​
Stereo crosstalk​
-115.3​
-84.7​


Note: It appears that the WiiM Pro's ADC is using internal sampling to 48kHz, according to frequency rate displayed on the ADI-2/4. As such, measurements you are about to see are all done at 24bits / 48kHz.
Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266678

Ouch. That really is not great, and seems to be on par with @amirm measurements of the WiiM Mini ADC. This is the best performance that I could measure. When feeding the ADC with a slightly stronger signal (1.09Vrms), the performance degrades only by a few dB. However, we start to see the ADC clipping when reaching about 1.20Vrms. Above, we enter this scenario:

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266466

Needless to say, it is completely unusable. Which is a shame, when we know that the vast majority of analog sources out there are often rated 2V output voltage, not to mention without variable output... So if you planned to pair the WiiM Pro with, say, a regular CD Player, you will have to use the S/PDIF input or just forget about it...

Frequency Response - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266485

There is some 0.4dB loss in amplitude over the original measured signal. It is still fair and most likely flat from 20H to 20kHz.

Noise Level - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266460

Dynamic Range - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266461

Note: This is measured without the Cosmos APU, due to wiring limitations. Still enough to observe Dynamic Range differences between both ADC.​

Intermodulation Distortion SMPTE - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266462

Multitone 64 - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266465

Jitter - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266187

Wow. This last one is a complete failure. I had to double-check this J-test several times to understand how it could be so wrong, but no, this is what you get after WiiM A/D conversion. Some may think the S/PDIF output of the WiiM Pro to be responsible, but it is not, as you will see later.

Overall, this is indeed a bad performance. I would personally not pair any analog source to this product, unless some (already poor) signal out of a phono preamp.

By the way, in case some may think about using it as an analog hub, this is the performance when using Line In straight to Line Out:

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266502



Digital Performance
View attachment 265841
Alright, now we are entering a much more interesting (and cleaner) area. Because I assume that many WiiM Pro owners are intending to use it mostly as a digital hub, paired with a much better DAC than what we have seen above. (in fact, you all have to!). These next tests have all been done without A/D conversion and are 100% in the digital domain. I used either REW tone generator for S/PDIF inputs, or WAV test files tones from the Audio Precision's tone generator, then played through the WiiM Home App, or Roon. Results are directly recorded through S/PDIF with the ADI-2/4 Loopback.

Note: To state the obvious, zero difference has been observed between wired LAN and Wi-Fi connection (literary no reason there would). All tests have been done with Wi-Fi.

Let's start with the regular main (Wi-Fi) input:

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/44.1/192kHz
View attachment 266170

As we might expect from any decent unit, we got a textbook, absolutely perfect 1Khz signal, with distortion and noise out of this world. Nothing to worry about if you plan to use the WiiM Pro that way. The rest will be up to your own DAC.

By the way, just for peace of mind, this is how the SMPTE IMD looks like :​

Intermodulation Distortion SMPTE - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266504


Chromecast
Since the WiiM Pro does have a Google Chromecast bluit-in, that uses different protocols than the WiiM App, we have to check its specific behaviour. To do so, I used a 44.1kHz 0dBFS sine wav, played through Roon (and WiiM Pro Chromecast as a Roon Endpoint). We got this:

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/44.1/96kHz
View attachment 266456

Note: This test has been done again after the latest update. Before that, Chromecast's performance was much worse (see there).​


S/PDIF pass-trough
I also checked both optical and coaxial outputs, hardly trying to find any difference...​

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 266172
Note: I have read and heard some early adopters complaining about the S/PDIF showing some delay, for instance when used with a TV optical output. I noticed nothing of the sort (LG OLED C2), so my guess is that it has been fixed since.

Speaking about it, here are the jitter plots for both:​

Jitter Optical - 24b/48khz
View attachment 267366

Jitter Coaxial - 24b/48kHz
View attachment 267368


EQ
When EQ is set On, it widely affects performance:

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 24b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266457
Obviously, you do not want to use EQ at fixed volume, unless 57dB SINAD (before D/A conversion) is something you are looking for... It becomes way cleaner with volume is unlocked, the lowered at about 95%. This issue could be easily fixed by firmware, by setting max volume about 1dBFS down.​


Bluetooth
For the last graph of all, let me introduce this horror show:​

Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 16b/44.1kHz
View attachment 266178
What a shame that the WiiM Pro does not support aptX HD or LDAC... These results are to be expetced and share the same profile than seen in @amirm measurments there (with even a touch worse implementation).

Digital Volume
Last but not least, a quick world about digital volume implementation. This is what I get when measuring the same 1kHz tone (Wi-Fi In, 44.1kHz) at different levels:

Fixed: -141.8dB THD+N
≃75%: -138.2dB THD+N
≃50%: -131.5dB THD+N
≃25%: -115.5dB THD+N
≃10%: -99.6dB THD+N

...Well, that is enough data for today! As I do not use these at all, I missed either DLNA and Airplay, but you have to expect 16bits/48kHz limitation for the latter. In my humble opinion, that would make no sense to use it over Chromecast. Edit: Added AirPlay (limited to 44.1kHz through Roon):
Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (SINAD) - 16b/44.1kHzView attachment 267387



Conclusions
I will try to isolate both my subjective thoughts and objective findings each others for a little... If looking only at overall pure performance, the WiiM Pro is kind of a mess. While not being the worst I have seen, the DAC portion is nothing near suitable for 24 bits content, far from what we should expect from a product launched in late 2022 (at whatever price), and actually surpassed by some dongles. The ADC is even weaker, not to mention almost useless if you do not have a variable output, thanks to its 1Vrms rated max input. Among other scenarios, it will probably not degrade (even more) some phono signal, but what would be the point to use a turntable for ending in the digital domain that way? You vinyl guys tell me...

On the other hand, we got the digital side. First, the app is cool, it works great, without noticeable bugs or lags. I enjoyed using it on a daily basis. Then, we have the unquestionable performance. It is indeed perfectly transparent when using Wi-Fi, and remains always stable even when streaming 192kHz tracks. The S/PDIF inputs/outputs are a great addition if you want, like me, a streamer feeding your DAC (with only one optical input), that may also catch a signal from a TV or another source. If I forget the (expected to be) poorly Bluetooth measurements, all digital inputs just work and measure great. Chromecast is one of the best addition over the regular WiiM Mini, since you may choose to bypass the WiiM Home App, using either Roon, or any major streaming service's dedicated app. I am personally still waiting for Roon Ready update, and would be glad to re-measure if the digital performance remains the same that way.

Weighting the pros and cons, I will give the WiiM Pro my recommendation, based on how I would (and will!) use it for myself. For the price, it just does its job, and in a great manner. Period.

Flanker rating:
WiiM Pro (analog in & out): Mediocre
WiiM Pro (digital transport):
Excellent
@VintageFlanker Thank you for this extensive review. I was wondering, do you think that the WiiM mini would show the same excellent digital performance? I am curious since I have one that feeds my DAC.
Thanks!
 

somebodyelse

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@VintageFlanker Thank you for this extensive review. I was wondering, do you think that the WiiM mini would show the same excellent digital performance? I am curious since I have one that feeds my DAC.
Thanks!
Probably - https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wiim-mini-review-streamer.33099/ has less detailed testing of the digital output of the Mini, but what there is is similarly good. They appear to share a common software platform, but the Mini has a few features removed as its less powerful processor cannot support them.
 

morillon

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Endibol

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Endibol

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It's funny to see that people like Hans Beekhuyzen are convinced that the sound of a WiiM mini is considerably poorer than that of expensive Streamers [edit], due to worse digital output quality.
Ironically in one of his other video's he gives the advice that you should spend as much money on a streamer as on a DAC. We know from all the reviews done by Amir that you can have a very nice combination streamer/DAC for approx 100 euro's each... So there he is right:).
 
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morillon

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It's funny to see that people like Hans Beekhuyzen are convinced that the sound of a WiiM mini is considerably poorer than that of expensive DAC's.
Ironically in one of his other video's he gives the advice that you should spend as much money on a streamer as on a DAC. We know from all the reviews done by Amir that you can have a very nice combination streamer/DAC for approx 100 euro's each... So there he is right:).
you have to be consistent...even with the measurement, see here, not even in "16bits".. the mini the pro are disappointing on their analog output...
but on a mini system or not difficulte music..why not... ;-)
(adding a decent external dac will cost you more than 100 dollars it seems to me...)
 

Endibol

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you have to be consistent...even with the measurement, see here, not even in "16bits".. the mini the pro are disappointing on their analog output...
but on a mini system or not difficulte music..why not... ;-)
(adding a decent external dac will cost you more than 100 dollars it seems to me...)
Yes, your are right about the analogue performance. I meant the digital output of the Mini that would serve as input for the DAC. Hans states that the digital output of the Mini is "bad".
 
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