WIIM mini / Tidal / SPDIF switch (Tindie) issues with sample rate switches

[markstein]

I am using the following setup:
WIIM mini with latest FW -> SPDIF switch from beni_skate (Tindie) with latest FW1.30 -> RME ADI2 Pro FS R (all optical connections)

Everything worked fine until... Tidal decided to upgrade their Hifi tier to offer HighRes tracks as well. Now, every time the sample rate on the WIIM mini switches, lets say from a song with 44.1kHz/16bit to 192kHz/24bit (just an example), the SPDIF switch loses sync, sometimes for more than 10 seconds (screenshot attached). My ADI-2 shows "no valid audio signal" and I hear silence or a full scale static/crackling sound and loud pops. Awful.

When connecting the WIIM mini directly to the RME, everything works fine, the ADI-2 syncs within half a second without static/crackling. Of course the RME has a very powerful feature called SteadyClockFS, so may not be representative for the majority of DACs in home usage.

Is anybody using a comparable setup (especially the specific Tindie SPDIF switch) and can confirm this behavior? Any suggestions how to solve this, other than forcing Tidal to 44kHz/16bit constantly?

 

[staticV3]

In the WiiM Home App, you can set the maximum sample rate to 96kHz.

That way, 192kHz audio will be downsampled to 96, increasing the chance of a successful signal lock.

Alternatively, I'd try contacting Tindie regarding this issue:

Submit a request – Tindie

sf-tindie.zendesk.com

You have a clear issue with their switch (won't sync with, but syncs fine without), as well as the data log from the Audio Switch Client.

They should be able to diagnose the issue.

 

[markstein]

Hi staticV3,

Tried all kind of settings in the switch already, with no positive effect (disable invalid package detection, disable zero packet detection, all outputs constantly on).

I do not want to use the resampler within the WIIM as I do not know its performance.

Currently have the WIIM directly connected to the RME, however, this setup is less convenient.

 

[staticV3]

I do not want to use the resampler within the WIIM as I do not know its performance.

If you're curious, Toslink to USB converters are available online for about $20-30, which allow you to record, analyze, and diagnose SPDIF outputs.

It's a valuable skill and tool to have, as you're no longer relying on random claims online.

 

[MCH]

I don't know the detail of how this switch works, but as the wm8805 cannot recognise and switch upon changes in sample rate, normally the microcontroller inside does this task. There is no way around that.
You say it takes like 10 seconds but it eventually works. Could it be that when it unlocks the switch starts doing it's thing and check all the other inputs looking for a valid signal until it returns to the one of the wiim? If this is the case, maybe if there is a way to disable the unused inputs the process would be faster.... Just a suggestion.
Someone should build one of these switches with ASRC built in.

 

[markstein]

Well, I could indeed create files with test signals, replay through the WIIM and capture with my ADI-2 or UFX II. No need to buy a converter...

 

[markstein]

Hi MCH,

No, please no inbuilt ASRC, that was one the reasons I sold my miniDSP SHD -> intersample clipping

 

[markstein]

So, no one using the WIIM mini has similar issues with sample rate changes?

 

[Jimbob54]

So, no one using the WIIM mini has similar issues with sample rate changes?

As you point out, the issue is almost certainly the spdif switch not the Wiim or the rme. Far less likely to find someone with that setup.

 

[Willem]

I have that switch and experience no problems. However, I do not use any sources above Red Book CD because I am not convinced they improve the sound quality. I must admit that the switch can be slow to switch between various sources such as my TV, CCA streamer or Bluray drive.

 

[markstein]

I contacted Beni_Skate and he confirmed that the microprocessor in his switch needs some cycles to switch - especially from SR below 96kHz to SR above 96kHz. Thats the reason I never experienced this issue with Tidal Hifi (44.1kHz only) and my TV (48kHz only).
So, this is no issue of the WiiM mini, and no issue of Tidal connect. It is simply a restriction of the SPDIF switch functionality.

 

[MCH]

I contacted Beni_Skate and he confirmed that the microprocessor in his switch needs some cycles to switch - especially from SR below 96kHz to SR above 96kHz. Thats the reason I never experienced this issue with Tidal Hifi (44.1kHz only) and my TV (48kHz only).
So, this is no issue of the WiiM mini, and no issue of Tidal connect. It is simply a restriction of the SPDIF switch functionality.

This confirms my theory. Have you asked about the possibility to skip the inputs you are not using to make the cycle faster? It should be doable via firmware. I think that would help, specially if you are using only 2 or 3

 

[markstein]

No, I did not ask this specifically. My workaround is to connect the streamer to the second SPDIF input of my DAC and to switch manually between "streamer" and "SPDIF switch devices".

Btw here the detailed answer of beni_skate, designer of the switch (automatic translation using DeepL)

"It may even take 10 seconds when switching between 192kHz and non-192kHz - the audio processor is a bit "weird" because it needs different clock settings for 192kHz than for all other frequencies (the internal PLL that adjusts to the signal simply cannot cover the whole range at once) - that's why the setting always jumps back and forth between "192kHz Mode" and "Normal Mode" every few seconds (you can normally also see this in the client tool log).

Between 44.1 or 48 or 96kHz or 16Bit/24Bit I would expect it not to take so long - but I would have to test it again.

From a software point of view, however, I probably can't improve much, because it's the hardware behavior of the audio processor (the solution with the audio processor has a few advantages, but for this special case with the many sample rate changes, a "stupid" switch that simply switches would probably be even more advantageous)."