Why Has Equalization Gotten Harder Over Time?

[SimpleTheater]

Excuse my lack of knowledge on equalization, but I remember a time when equalization was extremely easy. While the technology wasn't up to today's standards, the implementation was easier than anything Apple ever created.

You stuck a graphic equalizer in front of your amplifier. The units had a digital display, like the picture here.

You put a mic into position, then pushed a button and pink noise was output, and then you could adjust the equalizer until you got the response curve you were looking for.

After fiddling with REW and the parametric EQ built into my Yamaha AVR, I couldn't help but think, why don't they just keep blasting pink noise, show the response curve on the display while adjusting the values and allow you to see the changes you're making in real time? It just seems easier than changing the settings, re-running REW (or some other solution), seeing where you screwed it up, doing it again, until you finally get it right (or just give up and say 'close enough').

Again, I don't understand the engineering behind parametric EQ, so maybe there's a technical reason no one does this anymore (no one I'm aware of anyway).

 

[briskly]

Most people would consider "clicking a button" easier than manually adjusting sliders to flat or some other predefined curve. You can still do that with a real-time FFT analyzer and white noise. There are three parameters that you adjust instead of one.

 

[JeffS7444]

It seems that pink noise is considered a bit old school versus newer systems which use swept tones or other pulsing and chirping sounds for measurement purposes (REW, Sonos, Audyssey, et al). But pink noise + 1/3rd octave graphic eq are features on the Behringer DEQ2496 and it really is pushbutton-easy to use. It offers parametric eq too, should you wish to do your measurements with REW and manually enter in your filter parameters.

Am guessing that parametric equalization is particularly favored these days because it's mathematically elegant in terms of what it can do simply by altering 3 variables.

 

[solderdude]

Again, I don't understand the engineering behind parametric EQ, so maybe there's a technical reason no one does this anymore (no one I'm aware of anyway).

graphic equalizers have a few fixed bands and fixed bandwidths. The analyzer was basically a bunch of level meters with filters having the same frequency and bandwitdth as the equalizer. So when you push up a slider you can also see the average level go up.
Easy to do, works broadly but not exact.
resonances, peaks and dips usually do not occur at the exact center frequency nor will they have the exact same bandwidth (Q) so while graphic is easy as tone control it isn't accurate.
Parametric filters can be set exactly to the issues but takes more expertise when done by hand.

Next comes the computer analysis business. It is rather easy for software to determine what filter settings are needed and in digital realm very easy to create/set.
So in the end, once automated or settings that can be uploaded this can be done quickly and without expert knowledge.

For speakers pink noise is essential otherwise you would blow the tweeters. It is just a filter so easy to compensate for afterwards.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

After fiddling with REW and the parametric EQ built into my Yamaha AVR, I couldn't help but think, why don't they just keep blasting pink noise, show the response curve on the display while adjusting the values and allow you to see the changes you're making in real time? It just seems easier than changing the settings, re-running REW (or some other solution), seeing where you screwed it up, doing it again, until you finally get it right (or just give up and say 'close enough').

I guess you have old gear that doesn’t have the automatic room correction?

REW does indeed have a “real time” feature, called RTA (real time analysis). It uses pink noise and you can tweak the Yamaha’s built-in EQ and see the results in real time.

The old-school equalizers like your picture shows were basically sophisticated tone controls. They typically had filters with a one-octave bandwidth. This means that when you boosted or cut, it was affecting a full octave both above and below the center frequency.

By contrast, parametric EQs are infinitely flexible. In addition to gain, you can adjust both the bandwidth and center frequency for precise adjustments.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[SimpleTheater]

I guess you have old gear that doesn’t have the automatic room correction?

I do. A Yamaha 3060 with YPAO, before that an Anthem MRX-700 w/ARC (I actually hated that receiver)

REW does indeed have a “real time” feature, called RTA (real time analysis). It uses pink noise and you can tweak the Yamaha’s built-in EQ and see the results in real time.

I'm new to REW, so I will poke around and look for this. It will be helpful when moving a sub around, but I don't know if the Yamaha will output the pink noise while I'm playing around in parametric eqs.

 

[hyperplanar]

Graphic EQs are useful for shaping an overall tone curve but not so much for cancelling out peaks in the frequency response induced by room modes which can be very sharp (I’ve seen peaks with Q’s of 10+). You can bring the overall bass level down with graphic but you can’t fix the boominess and unevenness.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

I'm new to REW, so I will poke around and look for this. It will be helpful when moving a sub around, but I don't know if the Yamaha will output the pink noise while I'm playing around in parametric eqs.

Connect your computer's audio output to your Yamaha, and it will play the pink noise while you use the onboard EQ.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Tks]

I'm just upset getting native PEQ in devices seems to be an afterthought these days in many devices, even as DSP becomes less expensive computationally thanks to hardware advances.

 

[JohnKay]

totally agree, PEQ / DSP is wonderful and sorely missing in most products these days. Roon DSP has saved me in cases where optimal speaker placement is impossible. I agree it does not replace good speaker placement and properly treated rooms but in cases where one is constrained (i.e. small living room, other people's aesthetic requirements), PEQ /DSP can be wonderful.

 

[Tks]

totally agree, PEQ / DSP is wonderful and sorely missing in most products these days. Roon DSP has saved me in cases where optimal speaker placement is impossible. I agree it does not replace good speaker placement and properly treated rooms but in cases where one is constrained (i.e. small living room, other people's aesthetic requirements), PEQ /DSP can be wonderful.

Honestly, even with perfect rooms, I'd still want it, even if to experiment with sound I might enjoy otherwise.

 

[SimpleTheater]

This is why I'm so hot on the RME ADI-2 . Built in parametric EQ that can be used on all outputs and over 20 settings can be saved. More than one pair of speakers, or headphones, you can EQ each one. Fantastic. Now I just have to put out the coin.

 

[jhaider]

I do. A Yamaha 3060 with YPAO, before that an Anthem MRX-700 w/ARC (I actually hated that receiver)

Anthem has Quick Measure, which is the modern equivalent: swept sines to use to optimize placement, before letting the automated EQ polish things up. Their new stuff is better than that line. No obsolete serial connection and ARC works on Macs now. If they had Auro I would picked up an AVM60 long ago.

Every AVR or SSP review I do I have to add a paragraph bitching that they don’t have an equivalent to Quick Measure.

 

[RayDunzl]

I would have thought equalization has become easier over time.

I'll have to drag my 31 band Tascams out of the garage, and see how they do after 40 years.

I suspect I'd find a lot of noise - ancient OpAmp on each channel, oxidized sliders, etc.

 

[SimpleTheater]

Anthem has Quick Measure, which is the modern equivalent: swept sines to use to optimize placement, before letting the automated EQ polish things up. Their new stuff is better than that line. No obsolete serial connection and ARC works on Macs now. If they had Auro I would picked up an AVM60 long ago.

Every AVR or SSP review I do I have to add a paragraph bitching that they don’t have an equivalent to Quick Measure.

I don’t consider modern AVR’s easier. As @amirm has shown, the curve they show “after calibration “ is the hope, not the reality. Therefore I find it more difficult to run a modern AVR’s push button eq tool, then have to hookup a laptop with REW to check the results, then have to start tweaking.

 

[SimpleTheater]

I would have thought equalization has become easier over time.

I'll have to drag my 31 band Tascams out of the garage, and see how they do after 40 years.

I suspect I'd find a lot of noise - ancient OpAmp on each channel, oxidized sliders, etc.

You will find the noise, but the ease of use has no rival.

 

[jhaider]

I don’t consider modern AVR’s easier. As @amirm has shown, the curve they show “after calibration “ is the hope, not the reality.

Where has Amir allegedly shown that? If you look at my published measurements of Audyssey XT32 (see Marantz SSP and Denon AVR reviews, in link below) and Dirac 1 (see Bryston SP4 review in link below) you will see pretty darned good agreement between calculated and measured. Dr. David Rich’s ARC measurements show likewise. Note also that I make zero attempt to ape the calibration microphone positions, as I insist a useful calibration scheme must be stable enough to survive random sampling of the measured area.

However, what’s generally not shown - mains to sub crossover - often needs work. I’m eager to see how Dirac Bass Control performs in that respect.

 

[QMuse]

Graphic EQs are useful for shaping an overall tone curve but not so much for cancelling out peaks in the frequency response induced by room modes which can be very sharp (I’ve seen peaks with Q’s of 10+). You can bring the overall bass level down with graphic but you can’t fix the boominess and unevenness.

I believe the point here is that you can add frequency and Q to the graphic EQ interface.

 

[SimpleTheater]

Where has Amir allegedly shown that?

From the Review titled: Audyssey Room EQ Review

"Given the fact that the app lies to us as far as the response after the measurement, we need to do our own homework to see what has been done."
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/audyssey-room-eq-review.12746/

 

[QMuse]

From the Review titled: Audyssey Room EQ Review

"Given the fact that the app lies to us as far as the response after the measurement, we need to do our own homework to see what has been done."
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/audyssey-room-eq-review.12746/

Performing a control measurement is advised with every EQ system you're using.