Why do passive speakers still exist?

[srrxr71]

I think he can't sell upgrades for actives, so he is predictably not a fan. I also think he is mostly best ignored.

Bingo. For an audio dealer actives must be the worst thing. No cables to sell. No amp upgrades. No selling you on bi amping.

 

[fpitas]

As long as the "crossover" can be a 5 cent electrolytic cap, passive will be with us.

 

[mhardy6647]

As long as the "crossover" can be a 5 cent electrolytic cap, passive will be with us.

Those danged boutique capacitors.

 

[fpitas]

Those danged boutique capacitors.

I've seen polarized caps used in white van speakers. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[egellings]

What would happen to the preamp and power amp industry if speakers were all active? The only benefit I see with active speakers is that the manufacturer can add any corrections to the amplifier circuit in the speaker to optimize the speaker's performance, and with switch-mode amplification, heat is not much of an issue. I have to admit; I'm a toober, so I need not apply.

 

[Tangband]

What would happen to the preamp and power amp industry if speakers were all active?

There would be no separate amplifiers in the stores . If the active speakers have an inbuilt streamer, there would be no separate streamers to buy in the store.
No cables with 1000% profit to sell.

It would be the end of the hifi stores as we know it , because every customer would go in to the store only once to buy a speaker that has everything .

So - it seems like high end hifi stores dont want active speakers , maybe as a complement, but not more .
And they gonna use false claims to continue to sell passive gear .
The different brands gonna spend lot of money on commersials in the leading hifimagazines to continue this - and you know what ? - the hifi magazines dont want active speakers either , because theres gonna be a lot less to write about .
( no dacs, streamers, amplifiers and cables )

 

[Purité Audio]

So true, once a customer has bought a pair of contemporary actives there is nothing left to sell them, it is heartbreaking!
Now that D&D have their ‘Roon Ready’ actually ready the whole system is just the speakers and a pc, they won’t even accept a fancy mains cable it is a tragedy.
Keith

 

[frki16]

There would be no separate amplifiers in the stores . If the active speakers have an inbuilt streamer, there would be no separate streamers to buy in the store.
No cables with 1000% profit to sell.

It would be the end of the hifi stores as we know it , because every customer would go in to the store only once to buy a speaker that has everything .

So - it seems like high end hifi stores dont want active speakers , maybe as a complement, but not more .
And they gonna use false claims to continue to sell passive gear .
The different brands gonna spend lot of money on commersials in the leading hifimagazines to continue this - and you know what ? - the hifi magazines dont want active speakers either , because theres gonna be a lot less to write about .
( no dacs, streamers, amplifiers and cables )

and they all get money from bill gates to behave like that!

 

[ferrellms]

I agree with this for the most part, especially for budget active speakers, where the parts budget is so constrained that noise is inevitable regardless of the quality of engineering.

However when you get into pricier active speakers made by companies with a solid engineering pedigree (e.g. Genelec, Neumann) it's not much of an issue anymore.

For instance, the KH120's self-noise is rated at 20 dB(A) at 10cm—using the inverse distance law, this translates to 0 dB(A) at 1.0m. In other words, the hiss is for basically all intents and purposes inaudible to a human, even in a dead silent anechoic chamber, at a normal nearfield listening distance. Personally, I can't hear any hiss from my KH120s until I get close enough that one of my ears is literally about to touch the tweeter grille.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that although yes, active designs are more likely to suffer from audible noise issues (and I've certainly experienced my fair share of these in the past), being active does not preclude the possibility of being noise-free, and any competent non-budget active speaker should be as such.

This is just not true, at least for the Genelecs and Mackies I have owned and used for years. In fact, I would never dream of buying passives after my experience. YMMV

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

There would be no separate amplifiers in the stores . If the active speakers have an inbuilt streamer, there would be no separate streamers to buy in the store.
No cables with 1000% profit to sell.

It would be the end of the hifi stores as we know it , because every customer would go in to the store only once to buy a speaker that has everything .

So - it seems like high end hifi stores dont want active speakers , maybe as a complement, but not more .
And they gonna use false claims to continue to sell passive gear .
The different brands gonna spend lot of money on commersials in the leading hifimagazines to continue this - and you know what ? - the hifi magazines dont want active speakers either , because theres gonna be a lot less to write about .
( no dacs, streamers, amplifiers and cables )

There are minuses, like the active speakers all need power. This can become a headache with home theater installs if you don't have sufficient outlets around the room. There is also the issue of DSP being misused by manufacturers as turd polish for crappy speakers and headphones to make them measure "perfect" with respect to frequency response, but fail in a variety of other ways such as SPL capabilities or distortion. An idea I like better is to still have the option of "passive" speakers but with a central processor with the needed DSP so all that has to go out there is just a low voltage two-conductor speaker wire. Don't have to worry about things overheating like amplifiers if its stuffed into a tight spot, SMPS' that progressively have things like their bootstrap capacitor fail as they age, or an overly cluttered RF spectrum that could cause issues down the road as other smart devices are brought into the home. Same result, fewer potential problems for some users. There are still places for both types, and as a consumer that is how I would want it, so I can still choose based on my own needs

 

[amarsicola]

Anyone can name a floorstanding active speaker with good measurements (e.g. preference rating >5) and a human price (e.g. <3000€) ? And even better if they have an embedded streamer.
This is the Achilles' heel of active.
Floorstanders make a lot of sense, they are more stable and safe when you have kids and dogs, usually have deeper bass, and are aesthetically more appealing in the living room

 

[kongwee]

it is lighter.

 

[Flaesh]

I think he can't sell upgrades for actives

One can sell crossover files\firmware

 

[egellings]

There would be no separate amplifiers in the stores . If the active speakers have an inbuilt streamer, there would be no separate streamers to buy in the store.
No cables with 1000% profit to sell.

It would be the end of the hifi stores as we know it , because every customer would go in to the store only once to buy a speaker that has everything .

So - it seems like high end hifi stores dont want active speakers , maybe as a complement, but not more .
And they gonna use false claims to continue to sell passive gear .
The different brands gonna spend lot of money on commersials in the leading hifimagazines to continue this - and you know what ? - the hifi magazines dont want active speakers either , because theres gonna be a lot less to write about .
( no dacs, streamers, amplifiers and cables )

Sounds reassuring to me.

 

[egellings]

This is just not true, at least for the Genelecs and Mackies I have owned and used for years. In fact, I would never dream of buying passives after my experience. YMMV

I say, offer both all-in-ones and separates. Take your pick. Life-style oriented types will like the former, and audio crazies will like the latter.

 

[Ultrasonic]

Anyone can name a floorstanding active speaker with good measurements (e.g. preference rating >5) and a human price (e.g. <3000€) ? And even better if they have an embedded streamer.
This is the Achilles' heel of active.

For comparison, what passive speakers, amp and streamer would you suggest for the same budget? Just thinking this may not be quite the 'Achille's heel' you're suggesting...

 

[amarsicola]

For comparison, what passive speakers, amp and streamer would you suggest for the same budget? Just thinking this may not be quite the 'Achille's heel' you're suggesting...

Revel concerta (2200€), a Topping xlr dac (250€), an Hypex NC252MP power amp (500€), a raspberry pi (50€). You are at 90-95% of SOTA in each component.
Or you could go for beautiful Wharfedale Linton + dedicated stands (1250€), not exactly floorstander but quite like, 3-ways and very good preference rating.

 

[JiiPee]

Anyone can name a floorstanding active speaker with good measurements (e.g. preference rating >5) and a human price (e.g. <3000€) ? And even better if they have an embedded streamer.
This is the Achilles' heel of active.
Floorstanders make a lot of sense, they are more stable and safe when you have kids and dogs, usually have deeper bass, and are aesthetically more appealing in the living room

Canton Smart A25 for example. Floorstanding concept does not take away the strengths of active speakers: Possibility to use more advanced crossover-technology and driver specific amplification.

 

[amarsicola]

Canton Smart A25 for example. Floorstanding concept does not take away the strengths of active speakers: Possibility to use more advanced crossover-technology and driver specific amplification.

Can you link to its spinorama data?

 

[JiiPee]

Can you link to its spinorama data?

I have not seen spinorama data. Most reviews I have seen have appeared in German language media, where it is put roughly at the same level (sound quality wise) as such well respected speakers as KEF R7 and Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo.