Galliardist
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Thanks
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Why do passive speakers still exist?
- Thread starter Pearljam5000
- Start date
Galliardist
Major Contributor
The 802.11a standard appears to use 5725 to 5875MHz, the ISM band. U-NII is a newer standard that extends the 5GHz standard, and different parts of that extended space are available in different countries.
So while you are correct in a sense, the two ranges overlap and we have to refer closely to standards and legacy standards to know the real effect of Wisa on other Wi-Fi users: but it turns out that Wisa is actually just using 5GHz Wifi bands. What’s more, the available frequencies will vary by jurisdiction.
MarkS
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shame that they're not very good speakers.
I mean...
What's the source for this plot?
Regarding wisa U-NII band, here's a point of view from B&O:
Technical Backgrounder
Technical Backgrounder
Galliardist
Major Contributor
That's only because Wisa is a new standard and can use that area. Most current devices use the legacy frequencies only. In some countries Wisa products will have to live in the 5.8GHz area because the newer frequencies aren't approved for use, apparently. In time, the new frequencies will also fill up, as always happens.
MattHooper
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Somewhat appros of the thread...some recent anecdotal observations of listening to some active speakers....
These of course are not offered as my definitive judgements on How These Speakers Sound. Just think of it more as a casual report of someone's experience listening
to a variety of speakers in the store. That's all.
I'll do it in two parts:
1. Active Speakers At Pro Shop: I visited a local pro audio shop with my brother in law (who is all about active speakers these days) and we listened to s few models. I *think* I've got the models right:
ATC SCM25A Pro Mk2 Active-Studio-Monitor
www.long-mcquade.com
Focal Professional Shape Twin Dual 5-inch Powered-Studio-Monitor
www.long-mcquade.com
Genelec 8040B 6-5-Inch Powered-Studio Monitor
www.long-mcquade.com
JBL 308P MkII Powered 8
www.long-mcquade.com
ADAM Audio T8V Active Studio Monitor
www.long-mcquade.com
Dynaudio LYD8 8
www.long-mcquade.com
It really was just an informal, not lengthy listening session. We heard the ATC/Focal/Genelec in a dedicated studio-set up room, the ADAM/Dynaudio in a larger show room.
I was able to play a brief selection of tracks I know.
The Focal was definitely somewhat hot in the highs. Normally I'd expect that from their consumer gear, but I thought their pro gear was voiced more flat. Perhaps not(?)
Anyway, certainly gave a brillaince and detail to the sound. We A/B'd the Focal directly against the ATC monitor (in mono). That revealed the ATCs were obviously less hyped in the highs, less "airy and sparkly" and sounded easier and smoother on the ears. For long sessions I'd prefer the ATCs. Both gave decent bass response, and worked pretty well in nearfield.
A surprise to me was the Genelec monitors. They sounded...not as good as I was expecting. The sound was generally even, and box free, but there was a sort of gray-toned dullness, a slight opaqueness relative to the other two monitors. Could have been the set up, but while I'd imagine they are smooth to work with, the sound wasn't "wow, this active speaker's sure got somethin' goin' on!"
In the larger show room we demoed the cheaper active speakers: JBL, ADAM Audio, Dynaudio.
First I listened to some of the same familiar demo tracks switching between the JBL and ADAM Audio speakers. Both sounded very good for the money, I felt. Generally, again, neutral enough and smooth. But they certainly sounded different. The ADAM Audio speakers uses the ribbon tweeter and there was a very engaging combination of brilliant highs and smoothness to the sound: acoustic guitars in tracks had really nice tone and were well separated in tracks, having a nice golden sparkle to the strings. Nice, rich bass too!
The JBLs in comparison sounded very even and dense through the whole sound spectrum, treble a bit more "dense" less overtly airy, though tonally I found it a bit more bland and less engaging. The same instruments and voices didn't seem to have as much separation tonally or spatially. As to which was more accurate, I don't know from the brief listen, but my feeling was I'd likely choose the JBLs for a monitor, but definitely the ADAM speakers for musical enjoyment.
Then we played the Dynaudio speakers, which were more expensive, and because my Brother In Law actually owned the same pair and wanted to hear in comparison. We were both surprised: they didn't sound very good! Compared to the JBL and ADAM Audio speakers, which were rich and full sounding, in the bass as well, the Dynaudios sounded like all the bass was gone, and the tone was a bit uneven and sort of "pasty" and slightly crude sounding. More vivid, but in a "lack of bass" kind of way. Again, could have been the set up but we both thought the same thing.
These of course are not offered as my definitive judgements on How These Speakers Sound. Just think of it more as a casual report of someone's experience listening
to a variety of speakers in the store. That's all.
I'll do it in two parts:
1. Active Speakers At Pro Shop: I visited a local pro audio shop with my brother in law (who is all about active speakers these days) and we listened to s few models. I *think* I've got the models right:
ATC SCM25A Pro Mk2 Active-Studio-Monitor
ATC Loudspeakers - SCM25A Pro Mk2 Active Studio Monitor (Single)
ATC Loudspeakers - SCM25A Pro Mk2 Active Studio Monitor (Single)
Focal Professional Shape Twin Dual 5-inch Powered-Studio-Monitor
Focal Professional - Shape Twin Dual 5-inch Powered Studio Monitor (Single)
Focal Professional - Shape Twin Dual 5-inch Powered Studio Monitor (Single)
Genelec 8040B 6-5-Inch Powered-Studio Monitor
Genelec - 8040B 6.5-Inch Powered Studio Monitor (Single) - White
Genelec - 8040B 6.5-Inch Powered Studio Monitor (Single) - White
JBL 308P MkII Powered 8
JBL - 308P MkII Powered 8'' Two-Way Studio Monitor
JBL - 308P MkII Powered 8'' Two-Way Studio Monitor
ADAM Audio T8V Active Studio Monitor
ADAM Audio - T8V Active Studio Monitor (Single)
ADAM Audio - T8V Active Studio Monitor (Single)
Dynaudio LYD8 8
Dynaudio - LYD 8 8'' Powered Reference Monitor (Single)
Dynaudio - LYD 8 8'' Powered Reference Monitor (Single)
It really was just an informal, not lengthy listening session. We heard the ATC/Focal/Genelec in a dedicated studio-set up room, the ADAM/Dynaudio in a larger show room.
I was able to play a brief selection of tracks I know.
The Focal was definitely somewhat hot in the highs. Normally I'd expect that from their consumer gear, but I thought their pro gear was voiced more flat. Perhaps not(?)
Anyway, certainly gave a brillaince and detail to the sound. We A/B'd the Focal directly against the ATC monitor (in mono). That revealed the ATCs were obviously less hyped in the highs, less "airy and sparkly" and sounded easier and smoother on the ears. For long sessions I'd prefer the ATCs. Both gave decent bass response, and worked pretty well in nearfield.
A surprise to me was the Genelec monitors. They sounded...not as good as I was expecting. The sound was generally even, and box free, but there was a sort of gray-toned dullness, a slight opaqueness relative to the other two monitors. Could have been the set up, but while I'd imagine they are smooth to work with, the sound wasn't "wow, this active speaker's sure got somethin' goin' on!"
In the larger show room we demoed the cheaper active speakers: JBL, ADAM Audio, Dynaudio.
First I listened to some of the same familiar demo tracks switching between the JBL and ADAM Audio speakers. Both sounded very good for the money, I felt. Generally, again, neutral enough and smooth. But they certainly sounded different. The ADAM Audio speakers uses the ribbon tweeter and there was a very engaging combination of brilliant highs and smoothness to the sound: acoustic guitars in tracks had really nice tone and were well separated in tracks, having a nice golden sparkle to the strings. Nice, rich bass too!
The JBLs in comparison sounded very even and dense through the whole sound spectrum, treble a bit more "dense" less overtly airy, though tonally I found it a bit more bland and less engaging. The same instruments and voices didn't seem to have as much separation tonally or spatially. As to which was more accurate, I don't know from the brief listen, but my feeling was I'd likely choose the JBLs for a monitor, but definitely the ADAM speakers for musical enjoyment.
Then we played the Dynaudio speakers, which were more expensive, and because my Brother In Law actually owned the same pair and wanted to hear in comparison. We were both surprised: they didn't sound very good! Compared to the JBL and ADAM Audio speakers, which were rich and full sounding, in the bass as well, the Dynaudios sounded like all the bass was gone, and the tone was a bit uneven and sort of "pasty" and slightly crude sounding. More vivid, but in a "lack of bass" kind of way. Again, could have been the set up but we both thought the same thing.
Last edited:
MattHooper
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2. ACTIVE VS PASSIVE SPEAKER COMPARISON, AT AUDIO STORE:
Kii Audio 3 speakers :
I had to pick something up from my local audio dealer (who sold me my Joseph speakers...a very friendly and accomodating place, no pressure sales tactics). I've heard the Kii 3 speakers there a number of times and since they were playing I sat down for a listen again, and ended up listening for quite a long time, to all sorts of tracks, from pop/funk/orchestral etc. I think I enjoyed them the most this time than I ever had. As usual, the evenness and balance through the whole spectrum is what sticks out to me first of all. Also how smooth and unfatiguing the sound is. No thinness or sharpness to the highs, so drum cymbals are registered shiny but full and round sounding (not thinned out in to little bright spots of light), vocal sibilance is not exaggerated, even in a track that I used to check for this, which has slightly exaggerated, hardened sibilance, the Kii 3 speakers showed me the recording but didn't have any "ouch" factor and the extra sibilant recording could be listened to with some ease. Bass as usual was rich, full, well defined and the speakers disappeared quite well as apparent sound sources.
The Kiis are perhaps the "warmest" (not biting in highs/rich from top to bottom) sounding monitor speakers I've heard.
A track I've been listening to recently, Madonna's Substitute For Love, was particularly impressive. It's a bit of a tough track because her vocals were mixed sort of distant, her performance is whispery, it's joined by a deep continuous bass notes that can easily overwhelm a room and the other elements in the song, and the drum part is also mixed somewhat back and subtle and it too can sound a bit weak on some systems. Just a sort of odd mix. But on the Kii 3s the mix made sense. Madonna was *there* between and behind the speakers, not just sibilance, but the body of her voice. It was one of the more "complete" sounding reproductions of her voice that I've heard from that track. The bass line drops and it's deep, waves of bass, but well controlled. And especially impressive the drums, small in the track, sounded like they had just the right
solidity and presence to drive the track and not get lost.
Orchestral extravaganzas, like John Williams conducting various themes, were big, weighty, with sonorous horns, thick strings, chugging percussion, and silvery bells poking out.
The Commodores Brick House was well sorted, chunky in the bass guitar and drums, and lots of fun.
Cons? Totally subjective, but it was the same as every other time I've demoed these speakers: Good recordings sounded like very good recordings, but nothing sounded "real" or "natural" in the way I crave. They are perhaps smooth to a fault for my ears in that there's a sort of tonal grayness and limit to the highs that seems to stop instruments and voices from "breaking out of sounding recorded" to "happening now" that I get from some other set ups. There is no real-life "surprisingness" like when a chime, or a guitar, or voice, or sax or whatever suddenly pops in to a track like it's "there." Everything seems a tad too dark and smoothed over and not quite tonally "right" to my ears.
Then, in the same room, I listened to:
PASSIVE SPEAKER:
Spendor Classic 1/2
executivestereo.com
I'm a fan of the sound of Classic Spendor speakers. Though admittedly it's limited to having spent lots of time with my friend's old BC1s, years ago, and my own little
Spendor S3/5s which I adore. I've always wanted to hear more of the Spendor Classic line, but they are as rare as a hockey-player's teeth in the audio stores. So I was happy when this store got in the Classic 1/2s.
I played most of the same tracks on the Spendors that I just heard on the Kii speakers.
First impression? Wow, that's some surprisingly weighty sound! They don't go as low as the Kiis, but on most of the tracks I listened to, the *sense* of bass size and weight was quite competitive. The other impression is that the Spendors also sounded rich, full and generally even through their audio band - strings/horns etc were given similar richness and weight as on the Kiis. Though what stuck out most immediately to me was the tone/timbre: The Spendors just sounded more timbrally "right" to my ears in terms of the tonal warmth to drums, acoustic guitar, strings, horns had a shinier brassy tone, etc. I think there is a slight uptick in the highs somewhere, just enough to open up the sound to more realistically "airy" which releases it from the "canned/recording" quality I'd hear on the Kiis. And drum skins just sounded more like I was hearing right through the speakers to real drum skins being struck. They handled the Madonna track quite well, but not *quite* as evenly as the Kiis....bass was slightly overrich, drum track just a *slight* bit less solid, but the tonal beauty and warmth would have me pick the Spendors even with that track.
The bass wasn't quite as controlled, and there was a very slight "hollow box" quality to the sound overall vs the slightly more solid Kii audio presentation.
Overall in this direct (but obviously not definitive) comparison between a decent passive speaker and the active Kii speaker, my immediate take away is there was no particular paradigm change produced by the active Kii speaker over the passive speaker. Both sounded excellent, and I can see different listeners preferring either one.
I believe I'd choose the Spendors myself.
The other thing is that, for whatever reason, neither the Kii nor the Spendor speakers produced anything like the startling clarity and immediacy I hear from some good ol' passive speaker set ups, for instance the Estalon speakers in my pal's place or what I'm used to hearing in my own set up (Joseph Audio Speakers/tube amps etc). From each of those I've regularly heard something close to an "absolute" sense of clarity, where I'm seeing right through to the instrument being played, whereas everything sounded slightly opaque on both the Kii and Spendor set ups I heard that day. And there is a combination of scale, clarity, focus and authority to some stuff on those big Estalon speakers that I didn't hear from the Kiis, despite my looking for it with various larger scale tracks.
So, at least in my experience thus far, while I can appreciate some of the technical issues active speakers can solve, I have yet to hear any paradigm-changing sonic qualities, and my most amazing listening experiences have still come from any number of passive speaker sets ups I've had or heard over the years.
Kii Audio 3 speakers :
I had to pick something up from my local audio dealer (who sold me my Joseph speakers...a very friendly and accomodating place, no pressure sales tactics). I've heard the Kii 3 speakers there a number of times and since they were playing I sat down for a listen again, and ended up listening for quite a long time, to all sorts of tracks, from pop/funk/orchestral etc. I think I enjoyed them the most this time than I ever had. As usual, the evenness and balance through the whole spectrum is what sticks out to me first of all. Also how smooth and unfatiguing the sound is. No thinness or sharpness to the highs, so drum cymbals are registered shiny but full and round sounding (not thinned out in to little bright spots of light), vocal sibilance is not exaggerated, even in a track that I used to check for this, which has slightly exaggerated, hardened sibilance, the Kii 3 speakers showed me the recording but didn't have any "ouch" factor and the extra sibilant recording could be listened to with some ease. Bass as usual was rich, full, well defined and the speakers disappeared quite well as apparent sound sources.
The Kiis are perhaps the "warmest" (not biting in highs/rich from top to bottom) sounding monitor speakers I've heard.
A track I've been listening to recently, Madonna's Substitute For Love, was particularly impressive. It's a bit of a tough track because her vocals were mixed sort of distant, her performance is whispery, it's joined by a deep continuous bass notes that can easily overwhelm a room and the other elements in the song, and the drum part is also mixed somewhat back and subtle and it too can sound a bit weak on some systems. Just a sort of odd mix. But on the Kii 3s the mix made sense. Madonna was *there* between and behind the speakers, not just sibilance, but the body of her voice. It was one of the more "complete" sounding reproductions of her voice that I've heard from that track. The bass line drops and it's deep, waves of bass, but well controlled. And especially impressive the drums, small in the track, sounded like they had just the right
solidity and presence to drive the track and not get lost.
Orchestral extravaganzas, like John Williams conducting various themes, were big, weighty, with sonorous horns, thick strings, chugging percussion, and silvery bells poking out.
The Commodores Brick House was well sorted, chunky in the bass guitar and drums, and lots of fun.
Cons? Totally subjective, but it was the same as every other time I've demoed these speakers: Good recordings sounded like very good recordings, but nothing sounded "real" or "natural" in the way I crave. They are perhaps smooth to a fault for my ears in that there's a sort of tonal grayness and limit to the highs that seems to stop instruments and voices from "breaking out of sounding recorded" to "happening now" that I get from some other set ups. There is no real-life "surprisingness" like when a chime, or a guitar, or voice, or sax or whatever suddenly pops in to a track like it's "there." Everything seems a tad too dark and smoothed over and not quite tonally "right" to my ears.
Then, in the same room, I listened to:
PASSIVE SPEAKER:
Spendor Classic 1/2
Spendor Classic 1/2 Standmount Speakers – Executive Stereo
Over five decades Spendor Classic loudspeakers have earned iconic status as the reference standard for many audiophiles, musicians and professional sound engineers. Moving up to a three-way design the Classic 1/2 has a pedigree that can be traced back to the celebrated Spendor BC1 in the late...
executivestereo.com
I'm a fan of the sound of Classic Spendor speakers. Though admittedly it's limited to having spent lots of time with my friend's old BC1s, years ago, and my own little
Spendor S3/5s which I adore. I've always wanted to hear more of the Spendor Classic line, but they are as rare as a hockey-player's teeth in the audio stores. So I was happy when this store got in the Classic 1/2s.
I played most of the same tracks on the Spendors that I just heard on the Kii speakers.
First impression? Wow, that's some surprisingly weighty sound! They don't go as low as the Kiis, but on most of the tracks I listened to, the *sense* of bass size and weight was quite competitive. The other impression is that the Spendors also sounded rich, full and generally even through their audio band - strings/horns etc were given similar richness and weight as on the Kiis. Though what stuck out most immediately to me was the tone/timbre: The Spendors just sounded more timbrally "right" to my ears in terms of the tonal warmth to drums, acoustic guitar, strings, horns had a shinier brassy tone, etc. I think there is a slight uptick in the highs somewhere, just enough to open up the sound to more realistically "airy" which releases it from the "canned/recording" quality I'd hear on the Kiis. And drum skins just sounded more like I was hearing right through the speakers to real drum skins being struck. They handled the Madonna track quite well, but not *quite* as evenly as the Kiis....bass was slightly overrich, drum track just a *slight* bit less solid, but the tonal beauty and warmth would have me pick the Spendors even with that track.
The bass wasn't quite as controlled, and there was a very slight "hollow box" quality to the sound overall vs the slightly more solid Kii audio presentation.
Overall in this direct (but obviously not definitive) comparison between a decent passive speaker and the active Kii speaker, my immediate take away is there was no particular paradigm change produced by the active Kii speaker over the passive speaker. Both sounded excellent, and I can see different listeners preferring either one.
I believe I'd choose the Spendors myself.
The other thing is that, for whatever reason, neither the Kii nor the Spendor speakers produced anything like the startling clarity and immediacy I hear from some good ol' passive speaker set ups, for instance the Estalon speakers in my pal's place or what I'm used to hearing in my own set up (Joseph Audio Speakers/tube amps etc). From each of those I've regularly heard something close to an "absolute" sense of clarity, where I'm seeing right through to the instrument being played, whereas everything sounded slightly opaque on both the Kii and Spendor set ups I heard that day. And there is a combination of scale, clarity, focus and authority to some stuff on those big Estalon speakers that I didn't hear from the Kiis, despite my looking for it with various larger scale tracks.
So, at least in my experience thus far, while I can appreciate some of the technical issues active speakers can solve, I have yet to hear any paradigm-changing sonic qualities, and my most amazing listening experiences have still come from any number of passive speaker sets ups I've had or heard over the years.
Uh huh.
‘Remembering ‘ what a speaker sounds like in a pals house in 1984 is just anecdote, to truly compare both must be in your own space at the same time and in the case of the kiis the room has to be acoustically measured and any filters ( built in in the Kiis) implemented this is before you begin to ‘tune’ the speakers to your taste with the inbuilt tone controls.
Keith
‘Remembering ‘ what a speaker sounds like in a pals house in 1984 is just anecdote, to truly compare both must be in your own space at the same time and in the case of the kiis the room has to be acoustically measured and any filters ( built in in the Kiis) implemented this is before you begin to ‘tune’ the speakers to your taste with the inbuilt tone controls.
Keith
OP
Pearljam5000
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Too bad you didn't audition the Genelec Ones2. ACTIVE VS PASSIVE SPEAKER COMPARISON, AT AUDIO STORE:
Kii Audio 3 speakers :
I had to pick something up from my local audio dealer (who sold me my Joseph speakers...a very friendly and accomodating place, no pressure sales tactics). I've heard the Kii 3 speakers there a number of times and since they were playing I sat down for a listen again, and ended up listening for quite a long time, to all sorts of tracks, from pop/funk/orchestral etc. I think I enjoyed them the most this time than I ever had. As usual, the evenness and balance through the whole spectrum is what sticks out to me first of all. Also how smooth and unfatiguing the sound is. No thinness or sharpness to the highs, so drum cymbals are registered shiny but full and round sounding (not thinned out in to little bright spots of light), vocal sibilance is not exaggerated, even in a track that I used to check for this, which has slightly exaggerated, hardened sibilance, the Kii 3 speakers showed me the recording but didn't have any "ouch" factor and the extra sibilant recording could be listened to with some ease. Bass as usual was rich, full, well defined and the speakers disappeared quite well as apparent sound sources.
The Kiis are perhaps the "warmest" (not biting in highs/rich from top to bottom) sounding monitor speakers I've heard.
A track I've been listening to recently, Madonna's Substitute For Love, was particularly impressive. It's a bit of a tough track because her vocals were mixed sort of distant, her performance is whispery, it's joined by a deep continuous bass notes that can easily overwhelm a room and the other elements in the song, and the drum part is also mixed somewhat back and subtle and it too can sound a bit weak on some systems. Just a sort of odd mix. But on the Kii 3s the mix made sense. Madonna was *there* between and behind the speakers, not just sibilance, but the body of her voice. It was one of the more "complete" sounding reproductions of her voice that I've heard from that track. The bass line drops and it's deep, waves of bass, but well controlled. And especially impressive the drums, small in the track, sounded like they had just the right
solidity and presence to drive the track and not get lost.
Orchestral extravaganzas, like John Williams conducting various themes, were big, weighty, with sonorous horns, thick strings, chugging percussion, and silvery bells poking out.
The Commodores Brick House was well sorted, chunky in the bass guitar and drums, and lots of fun.
Cons? Totally subjective, but it was the same as every other time I've demoed these speakers: Good recordings sounded like very good recordings, but nothing sounded "real" or "natural" in the way I crave. They are perhaps smooth to a fault for my ears in that there's a sort of tonal grayness and limit to the highs that seems to stop instruments and voices from "breaking out of sounding recorded" to "happening now" that I get from some other set ups. There is no real-life "surprisingness" like when a chime, or a guitar, or voice, or sax or whatever suddenly pops in to a track like it's "there." Everything seems a tad too dark and smoothed over and not quite tonally "right" to my ears.
Then, in the same room, I listened to:
PASSIVE SPEAKER:
Spendor Classic 1/2
Spendor Classic 1/2 Standmount Speakers – Executive Stereo
Over five decades Spendor Classic loudspeakers have earned iconic status as the reference standard for many audiophiles, musicians and professional sound engineers. Moving up to a three-way design the Classic 1/2 has a pedigree that can be traced back to the celebrated Spendor BC1 in the late...
I'm a fan of the sound of Classic Spendor speakers. Though admittedly it's limited to having spent lots of time with my friend's old BC1s, years ago, and my own little
Spendor S3/5s which I adore. I've always wanted to hear more of the Spendor Classic line, but they are as rare as a hockey-player's teeth in the audio stores. So I was happy when this store got in the Classic 1/2s.
I played most of the same tracks on the Spendors that I just heard on the Kii speakers.
First impression? Wow, that's some surprisingly weighty sound! They don't go as low as the Kiis, but on most of the tracks I listened to, the *sense* of bass size and weight was quite competitive. The other impression is that the Spendors also sounded rich, full and generally even through their audio band - strings/horns etc were given similar richness and weight as on the Kiis. Though what stuck out most immediately to me was the tone/timbre: The Spendors just sounded more timbrally "right" to my ears in terms of the tonal warmth to drums, acoustic guitar, strings, horns had a shinier brassy tone, etc. I think there is a slight uptick in the highs somewhere, just enough to open up the sound to more realistically "airy" which releases it from the "canned/recording" quality I'd hear on the Kiis. And drum skins just sounded more like I was hearing right through the speakers to real drum skins being struck. They handled the Madonna track quite well, but not *quite* as evenly as the Kiis....bass was slightly overrich, drum track just a *slight* bit less solid, but the tonal beauty and warmth would have me pick the Spendors even with that track.
The bass wasn't quite as controlled, and there was a very slight "hollow box" quality to the sound overall vs the slightly more solid Kii audio presentation.
Overall in this direct (but obviously not definitive) comparison between a decent passive speaker and the active Kii speaker, my immediate take away is there was no particular paradigm change produced by the active Kii speaker over the passive speaker. Both sounded excellent, and I can see different listeners preferring either one.
I believe I'd choose the Spendors myself.
The other thing is that, for whatever reason, neither the Kii nor the Spendor speakers produced anything like the startling clarity and immediacy I hear from some good ol' passive speaker set ups, for instance the Estalon speakers in my pal's place or what I'm used to hearing in my own set up (Joseph Audio Speakers/tube amps etc). From each of those I've regularly heard something close to an "absolute" sense of clarity, where I'm seeing right through to the instrument being played, whereas everything sounded slightly opaque on both the Kii and Spendor set ups I heard that day. And there is a combination of scale, clarity, focus and authority to some stuff on those big Estalon speakers that I didn't hear from the Kiis, despite my looking for it with various larger scale tracks.
So, at least in my experience thus far, while I can appreciate some of the technical issues active speakers can solve, I have yet to hear any paradigm-changing sonic qualities, and my most amazing listening experiences have still come from any number of passive speaker sets ups I've had or heard over the years.
MattHooper
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LOL. The Bat Signal went up pretty fast! I'm impressed
Thanks, though. (As I understand it, they had implemented the Kii filters for that room set up).
Also, in my experience I've yet to hear a loudspeaker totally change it's stripes from when I heard it elsewhere, to well set up in my or someone else's room. If a speaker really impresses me, it does so usually the first times I hear it. The Kiis impress me. But, I have reason to doubt they would change enough in performance to wow me much more (and I've heard them in other rooms too, with their filters set up for the room).
Really Matt you have to compare at home, that’s how my business works, I don’t ‘sell’ anything just set the speakers up in the customers room next to their current system, enable instant switching and leave the customer to it.
Contemporary actives offer many advantages, just smart design.
Keith
Contemporary actives offer many advantages, just smart design.
Keith
That's very cool. What price range is your inventory positioned at? I always avoided in-home sales because I simply did not have the extra time but there was a large amount of customers that really wanted that and some claimed they where prepared to pay extra for that level of care and service.
Well, I would offer the service fairly locally for say a pair of active LS50s , and I don’t mind travelling for say D&D8Cs I just feel it is the most valid method, I leave the speakers with the customer for as long as they need ( within limits) if possible having the current set-up left in place is really ideal.
Keith
Keith
MarkS
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Thanks Matt! I, for one, find subjective evaluations valuable and interesting when they are done by an experienced listener (like you) who does not traffic in snake oil.
(But if you ever start writing about the sound of cables, I'm out!)
(But if you ever start writing about the sound of cables, I'm out!
)
MattHooper
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I think any dealer who offers in home auditioning is awesome!
I'm fortunate to have a few such dealers in my city. For instance my dealer delivered the joseph audio speakers to my home to let me try them out for a while before I made any decision, which was wonderful.
In my home I heard the same qualities that I liked from the store auditions. No big surprises. (I put speakers through a pretty extensive "test" in the stores, so I never really experience surprises when I hear them in my home).
I'm fortunate to have a few such dealers in my city. For instance my dealer delivered the joseph audio speakers to my home to let me try them out for a while before I made any decision, which was wonderful.
In my home I heard the same qualities that I liked from the store auditions. No big surprises. (I put speakers through a pretty extensive "test" in the stores, so I never really experience surprises when I hear them in my home).
MattHooper
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Thanks Matt! I, for one, find subjective evaluations valuable and interesting when they are done by an experienced listener (like you) who does not traffic in snake oil.
(But if you ever start writing about the sound of cables, I'm out!
That's nice to hear MarkS. I know there are ASR members who can enjoy subjective in-store listening reports in the spirit in which they are given...casual, not definitive or objective, come with all the caveats. But still, for some of us, fun.
What happens if I report a "chocolaty midrange?"
MarkS
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LOL! yeah, that's probably another deal-killer ...What happens if I report a "chocolaty midrange?"
I do wonder, though, what property of a speaker corresponds to the "liveness" you talk about ...
Because many still think passive speakers are the better choice for that they are looking for.
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