Speakers for the average Joe (pedagogic exercise)

[Emiyanez]

Hi all,

I am scouting for new floorstanding speakers and reading a lot of reviews and technical data. There are some metrics and characteristics that are easy to understand and translate into a setting/room/listening habits, while others are IMHO a bit more difficult to interpret.

I wonder which kind of metrics and characteristics would you suggest for speakers for an average consumer. In total honestly, most of us don't have a dedicated room for listening and, in our family living room, we do not always have a perfect listening spot (we sometimes multi-task while listening music), cannot place the speakers at the recommended distances from the wall and we would have them parallel to the back wall rather than towed-in. Average room size, at least in Europe, is around 25-30 m2, the speakers usually flank the TV on both sides and the sofa is placed 3-4 m from the front wall with the back wall immediately on the back of it.

Taking the above into consideration, which characteristics would you be looking at? I guess front-ported models may be the way to go, with relatively wide vertical and horizontal dispersion.Which speakers would you suggest in the range of $2000 a pair (if that exist at all)? In which metrics would you compromise?

Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[TheKoC]

If you look at the frequency response graphs, some speakers have a bass respsonse that makes them more suitable for wall placement, meaning a more shallow roll off that starts earlier, rather then a rather steep dropoff. Erin for example points this out in his reviews when a speaker is good for wall placement (see his recent review of the Elac DF63 as an example, or the Kef Q11). Both speakers would also fit your price range, but there are many others.

If you dont use subwoofers it is generally considered a good idea to place a speaker very close to the wall, btw., since it puts the speaker boundary interference with the front wall at the frequency where it doesnt matter much, and you will get more bass. Or place them very far out, but that is not very practical for most people in a living room.

 

[MarcT]

Hi all,

I am scouting for new floorstanding speakers and reading a lot of reviews and technical data. There are some metrics and characteristics that are easy to understand and translate into a setting/room/listening habits, while others are IMHO a bit more difficult to interpret.

I wonder which kind of metrics and characteristics would you suggest for speakers for an average consumer. In total honestly, most of us don't have a dedicated room for listening and, in our family living room, we do not always have a perfect listening spot (we sometimes multi-task while listening music), cannot place the speakers at the recommended distances from the wall and we would have them parallel to the back wall rather than towed-in. Average room size, at least in Europe, is around 25-30 m2, the speakers usually flank the TV on both sides and the sofa is placed 3-4 m from the front wall with the back wall immediately on the back of it.

Taking the above into consideration, which characteristics would you be looking at? I guess front-ported models may be the way to go, with relatively wide vertical and horizontal dispersion.Which speakers would you suggest in the range of $2000 a pair (if that exist at all)? In which metrics would you compromise?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Wow, I could have written your same exact question, as my system is in our family room and the location of the speakers is pretty much determined by the layout of the room in terms of the doorways into the room. The doorway on the left prevents me from bringing the speakers very far away from the wall behind them. The family room is open to the breakfast area and kitchen, which is open through a hall to the rest of the house(see picture). There is a pronounced bass null at my listening position on my sofa, but there is little I can do about that because I cannot move the speakers much at all. With the full carpeting, drapes, and large sofa, the room seems to be pretty "dead". I also have a large media console and big screen TV between the speakers, which is also not the best for audio, but my wife wanted a nice looking setup.

After a good bit of reading here and elsewhere, I do have on trial a set of KEF Q11 Meta towers. I like them but, as observed in reviews, they are a bit rolled off in the highest frequencies, which seems to make them very listenable but when you combine that with my high frequency hearing loss, it renders them not as exciting as perhaps the KEF R series or something like Focal.

Before the KEF's, I tried a set of the new Martin Logan Motion Foundation F2 towers. They did have a bit more on the very top frequencies, but below that, I didn't think their sound stage and/or imaging was so great(again remembering that my room is garbage for audio purposes).

As to the porting of the speaker, I do think front-ported or bottom ported may be for the best, although my Q11 Meta are rear ported and the bass seems decent.

Here are some pictures of my room and setup with both the Martin Logans and the Q11 Meta's:

 

[Mort]

What kind of music? Volume?

On axis frequency response is not that hard to find anymore because of testing.

Bass handling, dynamic range (volume), and directivity difference's will still be big, room and speaker dependent.

 

[Ellebob]

We can get very precise because we are enthusiasts and professionals on this forum but to the average person it can be a little overwhelming. My friend is a big wine connoisseur and teaches classes on wine at University. While he might describe wines in many ways the body, the aroma, the various flavors he can distinguish but he tells his students to enjoy the experience. He doesn't expect everybody to analyze the wine but wants their impression of they liked it or not. To the average person that has no intentions of being a connoisseur there is really 3 levels. I really like it, it is OK, I don't like it.

The same is true for testing speakers of one doesn't want to do a deeper dive in the various aspects of speaker. Listen to speakers you are considering with the same material, try to set the volume level between the speakers you are comparing. Then see what you prefer. If possible take the speakers home for a trial, the better companies will allow you to do this and it help eliminate different rooms when comparing.

Aspects to consider are size, decor of course, will it play loud enough for the way you like to listen. For instance if you don't play things very loud almost all speakers will work fine. But if you play loud then you should look at sensitivity and power handling. Something that will play at 91db/ watt and is rated for 400 watts will play louder than something rated at 87db/ watt and is rated for 100 watts.

If your speaker it's going to be placed against the wall or less than 10cm from the wall you would avoid rear ported speakers, otherwise it's fine.

So, go listen to some speakers and see what you prefer. When you narrow the choices we might be able to give you better options.

 

[DVDdoug]

I can't make a specific recommendation.

I say go to an audio-video store and listen to a variety of speakers. It can be very educational even if you don't buy anything you hear. It's a good idea to bring a CD with you... Something that you are familiar with and something you like!

They will sound different in a different acoustic space but it's still worthwhile to hear the differences.

I'd also recommend listening to surround sound, even if you mainly intend to listen to regular stereo (and most music recordings are still stereo). Again, even if it's just for "education".

"Upgrading" to 5.1 surround was my last and most satisfying improvement. It's "only" 5.1 and I have no desire to add more channels/speakers. I have a shelf-full of concert DVDs (and a few Blu-Rays) with surround and I really enjoy them. And with regular stereo recordings I use a "hall" or "theater" setting on my AVR for the "feel" of a larger space. ...That's hi-fi heresy, since I'm not listening "accurately as intended", but it's my preference!

I've never measured or treated my room. I'm sure it could be improved but I'm happy with my huge DIY speakers, including a pair of 15-inch subwoofers. If I had an unlimited budget and a dedicated room, I'd add many more channels and measure and treat the room, and all that stuff. But I'm NOT dissatisfied with my real-world limitations.

I don't think "Average Joe" gives it much thought. Most people are satisfied with the speakers built-into their TV and whatever comes in their car, etc.

I guess front-ported models may be the way to go,

Don't worry about that unless the speakers will be touching, or nearly touching the wall. The port just needs room to "breath". Low frequencies have long wavelengths so the location of the port (if any) is not critical. There are lots of ways to build a good speaker and lots of design choices & compromises. Sometimes a sealed speaker is better, etc. What matters is how it sounds! Loudness and bass generally requires size (a kitten can't roar like a lion). As a generalization you can get more and better bass from a big woofer (or more than one smaller woofer) in a big box. You're not going to get realistic bass you can feel in your body from a 5-inch woofer.

 

[Emiyanez]

Thanks for the advice.

Currently, I have a pair of ELAC UF52 supported by an SVS SB-1000 for the low frequencies. We recently move and the new living room is much smaller than it was and with a more regular floorplan and, luckily, they sound much better that they use to. I have used REW and applied some correction to deal with resonances. However, there are some nulls that I should try to compensate with placement but I did not have the time.

I am happy overall but I wonder how much of a change would be jumping into something with bigger drivers. I like coaxial designs in general so the Q11 Meta sounds like a nice option. I will go to the distributor to see whether I like them. They are much steeper on-axis which may not be what I am used to.

 

[Heinrich]

... the back wall immediately on the back of it.

You have equalizer, that will help with that. I would recommend KEF's bookshelf sized speakers, not towers. The aesthetics of the smaller R series type is georgious. You won't ever need a sub for regular music, as long as you can e/q the thing. The new AsciLab seem to be a real alternative, again bookshelf size with less spl capacity. Both target the casual listener with yet a demand for a rounded up product for peace of mind.

 

[Emiyanez]

The new AsciLab seem to be a real alternative, again bookshelf size with less spl capacity. Both target the casual listener with yet a demand for a rounded up product for peace of mind.

The new AsciLab are also high on my list. The C6B should be definitely within budget and the measurements are truly impressive. I may need to wait until they find a European distributor but I agree that they look like a dream pair of speakers.

 

[Emiyanez]

You have equalizer, that will help with that. I would recommend KEF's bookshelf sized speakers, not towers. The aesthetics of the smaller R series type is georgious. You won't ever need a sub for regular music, as long as you can e/q the thing. The new AsciLab seem to be a real alternative, again bookshelf size with less spl capacity. Both target the casual listener with yet a demand for a rounded up product for peace of mind.

Another metrics that I have problems understanding is sensitivity vs SPL. Sensitivity is how easy it is to drive the speakers. SPL is related to the sound pressure and the room and placement do play a role.

I usually listen to music while multitasking but I occasionally enjoy sitting at the sweet spot for more conscious listening. Hence, I wonder how a pair of bookshelves would "fill the room" in comparison with big floorstanders like the Q11. Acknowledging that it is dependent on the speaker design, wouldn't the extra drivers and box size in floorstanders generate a bigger "punch" or they just help extension in the low frequencies? Let's take two similar 3-way speakers, like the ELAC UB52 and UF52 in which the coaxial unit are identical but one has a single woofer opposite to three and a bigger box. How are they be different? If they would have identical sensitivity, how would they differ if fed with the same power?

 

[Mort]

83db sensitivity will require 6 more db from the amplifier than 89db to achieve the same spl.

'Filling the room' is often more than just volume, although adequate volume is necessary.

 

[amper42]

Another metrics that I have problems understanding is sensitivity vs SPL. Sensitivity is how easy it is to drive the speakers. SPL is related to the sound pressure and the room and placement do play a role.

I usually listen to music while multitasking but I occasionally enjoy sitting at the sweet spot for more conscious listening. Hence, I wonder how a pair of bookshelves would "fill the room" in comparison with big floorstanders like the Q11. Acknowledging that it is dependent on the speaker design, wouldn't the extra drivers and box size in floorstanders generate a bigger "punch" or they just help extension in the low frequencies? Let's take two similar 3-way speakers, like the ELAC UB52 and UF52 in which the coaxial unit are identical but one has a single woofer opposite to three and a bigger box. How are they be different? If they would have identical sensitivity, how would they differ if fed with the same power?

You won't develop definitive rules for what sounds best to you until you have spent time listening to the various options side by side. Many people are satisfied with a boom box, or ear phones on a iPhone. Jumping to higher quality audio options requires an educated knowledge of what you're looking for in a speaker. Otherwise, it may be difficult to decide exactly what you desire and the value equation that goes with it during your initial shopping listening sessions.

Unlike some, I think these decisions are personal and they can change as your education grows or taste changes. Here's what I look for, maybe it helps you?

1. If I'm looking for speakers for Orchestral music, I want wide dispersion. It should surround me. I don't care as much about sensitivity as I do about very wide dispersion, flat frequency response and a nice extended low range. One of my favorite speakers in this group is the BMR Towers.

The BMR Tower (Price EACH)

philharmonicaudio.com

2. If my musical taste leans toward Jazz, Rock and highly syncopated fast moving music my selection factors change. In this case, I prefer high sensitivity in the 88-91 dB range. Speakers like the Revel F228Be, F328Be are amazingly responsive which allows this type of music to burst with energy. There's something about high sensitivity speakers that makes them more enjoyable with this type of music than a speaker that offers 83-86dB sensitivity. You may not notice the difference of high sensitivity speakers in the first session but the longer they are in my system with lower sensitivity speakers while listening to Jazz and Rock the more I notice the superior articulation and clarity they can offer.

3. Here's some other general rules:
A. If I'm in a smaller room (less than 12x12) I don't mind bookshelves. But I really prefer floor standers whenever I have room for them.
B. I won't buy any speaker anymore with a bass driver smaller than 6". In fact, I prefer 8" or higher given a choice. Displacement matters.
C. When you listen at a dealer understand speakers will sound different in your home. It's fine for comparing multiple speakers in the same room but it's not going to tell you how it sounds in your room. Don't buy without a free return policy within a reasonable period.

4. You don't always need fantastic speakers in every room. You may find some reasonably inexpensive speakers that you enjoy for non-critical listening. Don't overthink it just enjoy them. Music is a fine hobby. Make it as much about the quality of the music as the technical ability of the gear you select.

5. At some point, try the RME ADI-2 DAC FS if you like stereo. The ADI-2 app Loudness controls offer the ability to easily make a reasonably good speaker sound like one costing 10x more. Those controls are amazing if you're particular about how your speaker sounds. I can take a speaker that sounds distant and make it sound like I'm in the front row of the theatre. Or take a speaker with an average bass line and make it absolutely bold and beautiful. It's only limited by my ear and skill with the app. This one tool has completely stopped all my upgraitus. No more search for a certain amp or speakers. I know I can dial in the exact sound I want in seconds. AND I can play my favorite songs during the process. Nothing else offers this kind of control. In most cases, I can take the ADI-2 to someone's house looking to upgrade and find that one unit gets them exactly what they wanted without changing any other gear.

Happy hunting!

 

[Emiyanez]

@amper42 That was really useful. Thanks a lot!

 

[Luvchampagne]

Amper42 - Excellent reply. I agree with everything you stated except for #2. My speakers are 85db sensitive, hence not efficient, Salon2, and sound great with Jazz, rock and highly syncopated music. I'm sure most other Salon2 owners would agree with me.

 

[Ellebob]

High sensitivity helps if you want to play louder but you also look at the power handling. Let's use some of the speakers you mentioned.

Kef Q11 Meta vs Q Concerta Meta (closest bookshelf equivalent)
The Q11 goes lower, plays louder and does it with less distortion.

The Elac UB52 VS UF52.
This their sensitivity and power rating are the same. So, they should both play equally as loud. This tells me their limitation is with their coaxial driver. So, the UF52 advantages are it will play a little lower and likely play with less distortion as you turn up the volume.

Sensitivity is how loud something plays with one watt of power (aka 2.83 volts). Here is a calculator

Max SPL Calculator

Easily calculate max SPL of a loudspeaker from it's Sensitivity. Just enter your loudspeakers sensitivity and power to calcuate how loud it can be.

www.brightonsoundsystem.co.uk

The Q11's sensitivity is 89db and max power is 225 watts. So, it will play 112db by the calculator and pretty close to their 113db rating.

The Concerto is 85db and says it can take 180 watts. This means it can play 107db by the calculator. Again pretty close to it's 108db rating.

The UB52 and UF52 have the same 85db sensitivity with max power of 140. This would mean it canè play 106db.

All these measurements are at 1 meter from the speaker. By the book sound decreases 6db every time you double the distance. This true outside, in a room it decreases ~4db when you double distance. So, the Q11 could play to 109db at 2 meters away and 105db at 4 meters away. The Elacs would be 98db at 4 meters away. That's quite a bit less

None of this matters if you don't listen loud. The question is how loud do you like to listen? Try an SPL meter app on your phone. Typically they are not accurate but good enough to get an idea of what you like. Play as loud as you would ever play and see what that reading is.