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Which Came First, the Chicken or the Egg?

Dimifoot

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#22
From Wiki
Although the question is typically used metaphorically, evolutionary biology provides literal answers, made possible by the Darwinian principle that species evolve over time, and thus that chickens had ancestors that were not chickens,[4] similar to a view expressed by the Greek philosopher Anaximander when addressing the paradox.[3]

If the question refers to eggs in general, the egg came first. The first amniote egg—that is, a hard-shelled egg that could be laid on land, rather than remaining in water like the eggs of fish or amphibians—appeared around 312 million years ago.[5] In contrast, chickens are domesticated descendants of red junglefowl and probably arose little more than eight thousand years ago, at most.[6]

If the question refers to chicken eggs specifically, the answer is still the egg,[7] but the explanation is more complicated. The process by which the chicken arose through the interbreeding and domestication of multiple species of wild jungle fowl is poorly understood, and the point at which this evolving organism became a chicken is a somewhat arbitrary distinction. Whatever criteria one chooses, an animal nearly identical to the modern chicken (i.e., a proto-chicken) laid a fertilized egg that had DNA identical to the modern chicken (due to mutations in the mother's ovum, the father's sperm, or the fertilised zygote).[8][4][9][10] Put more simply by Neil deGrasse Tyson: "Which came first: the chicken or the egg? The egg—laid by a bird that was not a chicken."[11]

It has been suggested that the actions of a protein found in modern chicken eggs may make the answer different. In the uterus, chickens produce ovocleidin-17 (OC-17), which causes the formation of the thickened calcium carbonate shell around their eggs. Because OC-17 is expressed by the hen and not the egg, the bird in which the protein first arose, though having hatched from a non-reinforced egg, would then have laid the first egg having such a reinforced shell: the chicken would have preceded this first 'modern' chicken egg.[9][10] However, the presence of OC-17 or a homolog in other species, such as turkeys,[12] and finches[13] suggests that such eggshell-reinforcing proteins are common to all birds,[14] and thus long predate the first chicken.
 

Blumlein 88

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#27
That wasn't the question.

It specifically states "the egg" - i.e. the archetype, with no jitter
Actually no it doesn't. The historical context is at least as old as Aristotle. And the implied meaning in this asks which came first chicken or chicken egg. Even that is rather metaphorical. Switching to an evolutionary viewpoint on the question provides different information and explains how chickens came to be without a first chicken created in the beginning (or a first egg). But that changes the entire nature of the question in regards to thinking about infinite regress.
 

Hipper

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#30
I would think in the race the chicken would beat the egg unless it was down hill in which case the egg has a good chance of winning.
 

Wombat

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#31
Make a decision and then discussion is ova. :facepalm:
 

tomtoo

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#32
The answer is easy. There are no chicken and no chicken eggs. With that name you try to fix something in time that always changes.
 

Blumlein 88

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#37
Speakers should work like evolution. You by some JBL 104 eggs. Then you feed theme with enough AC/DC and after some time they evolve to some M2's. ;)
Evolution is effective but very slow. I'm afraid they would only become M2s thousands of years later.
 

Berwhale

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#38
Speakers should work like evolution. You by some JBL 104 eggs. Then you feed theme with enough AC/DC and after some time they evolve to some M2's. ;)
I'm not sitting on my 104's to gestate them!
 
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