Food Science Review

[Keith_W]

Chris Young from "Modernist Cooking" fame has a great Youtube channel. Yes, he spends a lot of time shilling his thermometer, but I find his videos to be scientific, and often surprising. He worked with Nathan Myrhvold, an ex-Microsoft Chief Technology Officer now turned food scientist. So he is not the only ex-Microsoft employee I know of who likes food.

His latest video is questions the conventional wisdom of resting steak using science. TLDR: stop resting your steak, it does not keep the meat more juicy, and it has serious downsides like overcooking your steak from carryover cooking, and serving cold steak. His recommendation: cook the steak until its under the target temperature, remove it, and rest while observing the climbing temperature. As soon as it reaches the target temperature, slice into it. The sudden increase in surface area will cause a lot of heat loss and stop carryover cooking.

I hate resting steak. The crust loses its crispiness, it gets cold, and the steak is so tempting that I want to go for it straight away. Waiting for it to rest is torture. Thanks to Chris, I am now going to go at my steak the moment it reaches target temperature. I thought that I had my steak cooking technique perfected, I am happy with the steak I cook, so I have not thought of revisiting my technique to see if it can be perfected. Turns out that it can.

Now my real goal is to make the perfect roast chicken. I have been at it for > 10 years, cooking dozens if not at least a hundred roast chickens over this time. I will take what I have learnt about carry over cooking from this video to roast chicken.

 

[anotherhobby]

I've never rested my steaks longer than 5m.

 

[RayDunzl]

I don't see what all the fuss is over Lab Grown Meat...

 

[3ll3d00d]

Probably https://www.seriouseats.com/how-to-...e-food-lab-the-importance-of-resting-grilling is the reference to Kenji mentioned in the video, this comes to the opposite conclusion.

It's pretty unconvincing tbh given the way he hand waves away the confounding articles by saying "i believe I control other variables better than they did" but then provides no evidence to support it.

Thermometer looks funky though. My oven has one like that with multiple sensors running down it which is pretty handy and my thermapen has seemed a bit flaky recently.....

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

Cutting into food to stop cooking is a bad idea.

As for cold, heat your plates people. A 140F oven will heat plates quickly, and provide a place to keep things warm if your timing is off for other things.

If you want perfect steak and perfect crust every time, go with the reverse sear method. Low oven or sous vide to temp, take it off, then super hot pan/grill/broiler to put the crust on.

Or just develop some skill, because if a drugged out, hung over line cook with serious mental illness can figure it out in the rush of service, you can figure it out in your kitchen.

Yes, I use a thermometer, but I trust my touch more than the thermometer. Because fat pockets exist.

 

[ryanosaur]

Funny. I never had that problem with resting a Steak around 10 minutes and having it be cold. Or a roast chicken sitting for 10-20 minutes and not still being uncomfortably hot when taking it apart... seems like a solution in search of a problem that doesn't really exist.

And it does matter. Yes, juices will still leak out no matter what you do. Planning for carryover cooking is part of what separates good cooking from bad. Letting the complexities of what is happening inside whatever you are cooking settle out is important, from cookie, cake and bread to meat of all sorts, even casseroles/gratins/etc. The only thing I will open up immediately and "stop" the cooking process is rice.

But what do I know. Over 30 years in the industry including running my own kitchen.

But to each their own.

FTW: James Beard's own recipe for Basic Roast Chicken. Very adaptable to adding flavors to the baste. Stick a probe in the breast and pull the bird at around 153-155 depending on your comfort level. Carryover will see it rise well over 160. I never serve it until it tops out and starts coming back down. Only once did I have a concern about the thighs still being "too pink."

I also never "tent" my food after pulling it from the oven as that only serves to steam it.

 

[ta240]

I don't see what all the fuss is over Lab Grown Meat...

 

[Anton D]

I have two steak methods I like best:

1) Create a "one coal deep" layer in the Weber. For a Costco thickness ribeye, 3 1/2 minutes per side. It 'rests' as we get everything plated.

2) Sous vide at 122 for however long. Sear on a ribbed cast iron pan preheated to f-hot. Toss on salt and pepper. About 15-30 seconds, rotate 90 degrees for good cross hatching, flip, repeat. I's already mostly pre-rested so we serve hot.

___

Chicken.

We like to 'loosen the skin' and put things we like between the skin and the meat. (Examples: lemon slices and ginger, tikka masala mix, etc.) A little oil and somewhat generous salt on the outside.

Same single layer of coals in the Weber, so, pretty hot.

Put the chicken on a chicken rack thing and then protect the bottom of the chicken with foil or a roasting pan.

Chicken into the Weber, about 60-70 minutes, untouched.

Remove, we let it settle down as we prep the plates. Then, carve and serve. Crispy skin like crazy! Good an deglazing, too.

 

[TulseLuper]

The Combustion thermometer he made is great. I’ve been using it since release and bought it for multiple friends. The time prediction for large cuts comes in handy.

I usually rest steaks for 10 minutes or so so I have time to get everything else together. 10-15 degrees below target like he mentions in the video usually works. I do not understand the cold steak complaint - the temp is still rising while it’s resting. That the surface isn’t ripping hot is just not a big deal.

 

[Timcognito]

Now my real goal is to make the perfect roast chicken. I have been at it for > 10 years, cooking dozens if not at least a hundred roast chickens over this time.

My wife is our chef and Elite Yelper that gets invited to restaurant pre-openings several times a year in the SFBA (spouses are not invited). Let me tell, that girl can cook. So I was just about to tell you how I am relegated to BBQing the chicken but Anton beat me to it, close to my method.
Remove the backbone with shears and butterfly, tuck the wings back, indirect heat above the coals on the sides, with or without a dip pan, HOT and fast, leave the lid on, and check at 45 minutes for breast temp ~ 150+ F deg before removing.

 

[RDoc]

Cutting into food to stop cooking is a bad idea.

As for cold, heat your plates people. A 140F oven will heat plates quickly, and provide a place to keep things warm if your timing is off for other things.

If you want perfect steak and perfect crust every time, go with the reverse sear method. Low oven or sous vide to temp, take it off, then super hot pan/grill/broiler to put the crust on.

Or just develop some skill, because if a drugged out, hung over line cook with serious mental illness can figure it out in the rush of service, you can figure it out in your kitchen.

Yes, I use a thermometer, but I trust my touch more than the thermometer. Because fat pockets exist.

I'm with PP.
I cook/smoke our steaks at 225F to an internal temp of 120F (about 20 min) then let them rest, covered for about 5 minutes while my smoker gets up to 700F then sear them on each side for less than a minute and serve immediately. I've not heard any complaints.

 

[Chrispy]

I'm getting hungry now.

 

[RDoc]

WRT Roast Chicken.
I'm a big fan of very hot cooking for whole chicken. For chicken I just salt and pepper the skin, get our smoker up to 550F then put a whole chicken in with a thermometer deep in the breast. Cook to 160F and let rest for about 10 minutes uncovered, then carve.
This comes out with very crisp skin and very juicy meat and the smoke gives it a great flavor overtone.

 

[Anton D]

My wife is our chef and Elite Yelper that gets invited to restaurant pre-openings several times a year in the SFBA (spouses are not invited). Let me tell, that girl can cook. So I was just about to tell you how I am relegated to BBQing the chicken but Anton beat me to it, close to my method.
Remove the backbone with shears and butterfly, tuck the wings back, indirect heat above the coals on the sides, with or without a dip pan, HOT and fast, leave the lid on, and check at 45 minutes for breast temp ~ 150+ F deg before removing.

I am in Chico. Just sayin'.

 

[kemmler3D]

Sous vide or GTFO. Reverse sear by heating in the oven around 220 works well if you don't have one handy though.

I do find that resting steaks keep the juice in, but also lets the steak get cold, so not sure if it's worthwhile. I think the realistic answer is to heat plates.

I'm currently attempting to dry age a 12lb rib roast using Umai bags... will have plenty of opportunity to test this theory in a few weeks. It was under $7/lb at the local supermarket, was I supposed to NOT buy it?

 

[Keith_W]

But what do I know. Over 30 years in the industry including running my own kitchen.

Yeah, exactly. What do you know. Or everybody who rests steaks for that matter ... including Gordon Ramsay, Heston Blumenthal, Jacques Pepin, Anthony Bourdain, and in fact EVERY well known chef I can think of says rest your steak. I can't remember what McGee said about this (the cooking world's version of Toole). And all these people who rest their steak includes me - I rest my steak.

But I am open to having my beliefs questioned. One guy says don't rest your steak - that's fine, I am happy to try that experiment. It won't cost me much, maybe a few grams of meat juices. If I get dry, rubbery steak ... then next time i'll go back to resting my steak, no big deal

On another note, there are just as many food myths in the cooking world as there are in audio. One channel full of food myths is Italia Squisita. To be fair, I am not sure if they are food myths or not, but I am somewhat wary when they direct you to do something and don't give you a scientific reason. For example, professional Italian chefs seem to start their stocks with copious ice. As in - they use ice instead of water. To me this is a waste of time, energy, and freezer space - energy wasted to create ice, more energy required to heat it up. So there better be a good reason. No reason is given apart from "it tastes better". Still, I like watching Italia Squisita because I love Italian food. I'm just not sure what is a myth and what is not.

And for you guys posting replies, I am not interested in your technique alone. I am interested in the science and the reason behind your technique. I use the reverse sear myself, and I agree that it makes cooking steak more predictable and more consistent - so no argument from me there.

But roasting a chicken with a high delta? I do not agree. I approach roast chicken with the same mindset as steak - equilibrium cooking, then high delta (i.e. the same as reverse sear). The risk of high delta cooking with a whole chicken is even greater than something thin like a steak - overcooked exterior, raw interior, high chance of burning the surface, smaller window of opportunity to remove from the heat, higher temperature reached during carry-over cooking, thus more risk of overshooting your target temperature. For me it's 90-120 minutes at 80C to slowly bring the chicken up to the target temperature of 65C, then rest and allow the temperature to reach 67C. When the temp goes down to 50C, it's back in the oven at maximum (250C, fan forced) to crisp up the skin. Then a short rest, then carve.

After this video, I might skip the resting stage for roast chicken and carve immediately. All it will cost me is one chicken

 

[Spkrdctr]

Hmmmm, I don't have any problems with steak. I cook it well done with a bit of char on it and man is it good! Never had all the juice run out as I rest it two minutes before diving in. I guess this might be called the Neanderthal cooking method. It flat out works. I can't get rare or raw meat down at all. Cooked well done I can eat just about anything! Yum!

 

[Doodski]

Hmmmm, I don't have any problems with steak. I cook it well done with a bit of char on it and man is it good! Never had all the juice run out as I rest it two minutes before diving in. I guess this might be called the Neanderthal cooking method. It flat out works. I can't get rare or raw meat down at all. Cooked well done I can eat just about anything;llllllllllll.! Yum!

I like my pork cooked realllly well done with a crunchy crust and tender de jour. Beef not as well done but I can eat any beef cooked well or rare. It's beef! YumMY...

 

[Timcognito]

But roasting a chicken with a high delta?

All it will cost me is one chicken

Give it a try, butterfly and check at 45 minutes or leave one of those new fangled thermometers in the breast. Hot and fast, indirect heat is very juicy inside and very crispy outside. One more chicken could rock the under world.
When it comes to taste empirical evidence is the best evidence.

 

[Timcognito]

I am in Chico. Just sayin'.

There's got to be good steakhouse up there?