What does it take to succesfully transition to a green energy economy?

[Devnull]

If we go back to the title of the thread it needs to make sense, both economically and practically. A payoff period of more than a decade makes no sense. The vast majority of people will not tolerate an investment with that poor of a return.

As to practical real world application of green energy there's a very simple example of why it's not currently viable, the California small engine ban. In the near future, small less than 25 HP off road engines will be banned for sale. There is one glaring exception in the law, any government agency can still continue to purchase gas powered equipment. So they can keep buying chainsaws for fire crews but the guy that earns his living with one can't. They can buy anything they want as long as it's necessary, but the average taxpayer whose paying for that equipment can't.

If going green was really viable and sustainable then why have the government regulators excluded themselves?

 

[JustJones]

So they can keep buying chainsaws for fire crews but the guy that earns his living with one can't.

Only applies to chainsaws under 45cc.

 

[Devnull]

Only applies to chainsaws under 45cc.

Actually only top handle saws over 50cc are exempt. And pretty much everything with a spark ignition will eventually be banned. Still doesn't explain why the government can buy anything they want but the public can't. They'll be able to buy any portable generator but the public will only be able to buy a zero emission generator, whatever that is.

CA knows going all green electric is going to break the states power grid. If they didn't why will you still be able to buy and install a permanent natural gas generator? If the grid and green electric were cheap and reliable why would you spend thousands on a natural gas unit?

 

[JustJones]

Actually only top handle saws over 50cc are exempt. And pretty much everything with a spark ignition will eventually be banned. Still doesn't explain why the government can buy anything they want but the public can't. They'll be able to buy any portable generator but the public will only be able to buy a zero emission generator, whatever that is.

CA knows going all green electric is going to break the states power grid. If they didn't why will you still be able to buy and install a permanent natural gas generator? If the grid and green electric were cheap and reliable why would you spend thousands on a natural gas unit?

SORE used in the following equipment are not subject to CARB’s current SORE regulations:​

• Air compressors
• Blade-capable brush cutters/clearing saws ≥ 40 cc
• Chainsaws ≥ 45 cc
• Chippers
• Light towers
• Pumps ≥ 40 cc
• Saws: concrete, masonry, cutoff
• Shredders/grinders
• Stationary generators
• Stump grinders
• Welders

 

[Devnull]

SORE used in the following equipment are not subject to CARB’s current SORE regulations:​

• Air compressors
• Blade-capable brush cutters/clearing saws ≥ 40 cc
• Chainsaws ≥ 45 cc
• Chippers
• Light towers
• Pumps ≥ 40 cc
• Saws: concrete, masonry, cutoff
• Shredders/grinders
• Stationary generators
• Stump grinders
• Welders

Cool. I stand corrected. Still doesn't explain why the government has excluded themselves from the regulations.

 

[NTK]

Cool. I stand corrected. Still doesn't explain why the government has excluded themselves from the regulations.

The US government also does not only exempt itself to gasoline powered chain saws. Other examples include intercontinental ballistic missiles with thermonuclear warheads.

 

[EJ3]

The US government also does not only exempt itself to gasoline powered chain saws. Other examples include intercontinental ballistic missiles with thermonuclear warheads.

Damn, I wanted to use one of those on my neighbors.
Of course the only way to stop someone from using one is for other semi responsible entities to have them, too.
So that's kind of a moot point UNLESS there is a way to make 100% positively sure that no one else has them either.
That would be an interesting accomplishment.

 

[JustJones]

Cool. I stand corrected. Still doesn't explain why the government has excluded themselves from the regulations.

I didn't know they were excluded. I understand emergency vehicles are.

 

[Timcognito]

If the grid and green electric were cheap and reliable why would you spend thousands on a natural gas unit?

Because the grid goes down all the time in California regardless of the energy source, often for days. If one owns a store with eight refrigerators and thousands of dollars of product no affordable battery system will back it up. California gets 54% of its electricity from renewable sources and growing, quite an accomplishment for the world's 6th largest economy.

 

[JustJones]

I believe one consequence of CA new requirements will be larger engines on commercial mowing equipment. It's not unusual to see 27HP and over on commercial riding mowers.

 

[Timcognito]

I believe one consequence of CA new requirements will be larger engines on commercial mowing equipment. It's not unusual to see 27HP and over on commercial riding mowers.

They make 400+ hp electric cars, so the opportunity to build 30+ hp mower will be taken up by many in the business. Those machines will have lower operating and maintenance costs that ICE machines, just like the cars. Not familiar with the new regs on small engines but so far the promulgated regs in CA have banned the sales of NEW IEC vehicles and devices after the prescribed dates.

 

[EERecordist]

To California regulating small gasoline engines, the rules are new sales. What it does is create a large enough market for electric replacements.

 

[JustJones]

They make 400+ hp electric cars, so the opportunity to build 30+ hp mower will be taken up by many in the business. Those machines will have lower operating and maintenance costs that ICE machines, just like the cars. Not familiar with the new regs on small engines but so far the promulgated regs in CA have banned the sales of NEW IEC vehicles and devices after the prescribed dates.

The industry isn't letting any grass grow under their feet.

Greenworks Commercial

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[Timcognito]

I know this not replacing CO2 but I have been replacing all small electric tools with battery equivalents and I have many. So far I am very happy with the performance with few exceptions like tools that create a lot of dust because I have plug that turns on/off an attached vacuum with the tool. Also my pneumatic nailers seem to have more punch than their battery partners.

 

[Willem]

I think the Dutch would disagree
View attachment 398075.

I think I was there not so long ago. If it is what I think it is it is not a regular bike parking, but a facility to store bicycles that were retrieved by Amsterdam police because they were stolen or illegally parked somewhere. They receive some 15k bicycles every three weeks. More relevant are the large paid and guarded underground bicycle parkings at Dutch railway stations. The one at Utrecht Central Station has space for 12k bicycles. You can also rent a bike for a day at many Dutch stations.

 

[EJ3]

Ihhtink I was there not so long ago. If it is what I think it is it is not a regular bike parking, but a facility to store bicycles that were retrieved by Amsterdam poliice because they were stolen or illegally parked somewhere. They receive some 15k bicycles every three weeks. More relevant are the large paid and guarded underground bicycle parkings at Dutch railway stations. The one at Utrecht Central Station has space for 12k bicycles. You can also rent a bike for a day at many Dutch stations.

So, if you can't ride a bike, you are Fubared?

 

[Willem]

Also bikes, Ubers, one Wheels Etc all become completely useless when you become an adult and have children and/or pets in a larger home out in the suburbs.

I've had several peers at work go through a dramatic lifestyle change once they got married and had kids.

In fact, we brought up our children when we did not have a car. We took them to school on our bikes, and from the age of about five they would ride their own bikes to school, and from about ten (?) I think unsupervised. We did long loaded cycle touring holidays with them, including in the Alps, when my then ten year old daughter would descent the pretty long Maloja Pas in the Alps on her own bike.

 

[Willem]

So, if you can't ride a bike, you are Fubared?

I am not sure what you mean, but here almost everybody can ride a bicycle. A bicycle exam is part of the primary school curriculum, with theoretical and practical tests. There are not many people who do not have at least one bicycle.

 

[Willem]

To California regulating small gasoline engines, the rules are new sales. What it does is create a large enough market for electric replacements.

Dutch gardening companies are all transitioning to battery tools because they are quieter, lighter and cleaner. Our gardener does not want to use a gasoline chain saw or hedge trimmer anymore, because he is concerned about the toxic exhaust (and his were clean four stroke machines). We still use a Honda four stroke lawn mower and we are one of the last in our neighbourhood, but when it dies we will get an electric (robot) one.

 

[EJ3]

I am not sure what you mean, but here almost everybody can ride a bicycle. A bicycle exam is part of the primary school curriculum, with theoretical and practical tests. There are not many people who do not have at least one bicycle.

As in physically incapable of riding a bike for more than say 5 minutes. My back problems make walking or riding a bike for more than about 1/3 of a kilometer not possible.