What amp would you buy?

[DanielT]

Living in Portugal, bur still will have a look. Thanks.

Leaving aside what I said in #15 about where the stuff is made, why not this combination. DAC with volume control and PEQ (if you ever want to use that functionality) together with an amp that has a VU meter. Total cost €1,390.

Actually a class AB amp but not physically huge despite that. In any case, I think the VU meters are cool. The power in it is enough for your speakers.

SONCOZ SGP1 Stereo Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the SONCOZ stereo class AB power amplifier. It was sent to me by the company about 5 or 6 months ago and costs US $1099. As you see, the unit comes in gorgeous packaging with custom and VU meters befitting of some of the highest end audio products...

audiosciencereview.com

Topping D50 III Balanced DAC with EQ Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping D50 III balanced stereo DAC with support for parametric equalization. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $229. Sorry for the quality of the picture/display. It is quite dim compared to my photography light and when I tried to...

audiosciencereview.com

SONCOZ SGP1 Power Amplifier Class AB 2x240W 4 Ohm Black - Audiophonics

The Soncoz SGP1 is a massive Class AB amplifier, designed for integration into high-resolution audio systems, which the brand has been working on for three years. In addition to comfortable power, it provides excellent SNR and THD...

www.audiophonics.fr

TOPPING D50 III DAC Black

Topping's new small D50 III desktop DAC now features two ES9039Q2M DAC chips and an XMOS XU-316 USB interface, enabling it to support high-resolution streams up to PCM 32bit 768kHz and DSD512.

www.audiophonics.fr

 

[Willem]

Good vintage amps are pretty much on a par with current audiophile amps - but they may need a refresh every 30 or so years!

My 40+ year old Quad 606's are still doing fine - I did have them checked out and serviced about 15 years ago...

I am similarly happy with my Quad 606-2, but it was refurbished twice. And at 2x140 watt it has quite a bit more power. In my experience 70 watts is pretty anaemic once you start playing dynamic music in a larger room. In my case, even 2x140 watt was only enough once I added three subwoofers and a high pass filter for a total of 1500 watts. Mind you, this is not for home theatre but just for a classical symphony.
With respect to the need for dsp equalization, I think you should not decide before you have measured the actual in-room response, but maybe you already did.

 

[Willem]

A couple of thoughts;

The Benchmark AHB2 is a well regarded, bulletproof, alternative that you might like. Alternatively the manufacturers recommended above are great too. You won't go wrong.

I'd still try to get an answer for why you are experiencing clipping. Even at a 4m listening distance you should only need around 20W to reach your preferred 85dB SPL. I wonder if the output voltage from your Eversolo is too high for your pre-amp. If that is the case, then any new power amp will also pass on that clipped signal.
Have you tried removing the pre-amplifier from your system and running the Eversolo directly into the power amplifier?

But there is a huge difference between average SPL and what you need for peaks that may be 25 dB above average.

 

[Willem]

I wonder if the output voltage from your Eversolo is too high for your pre-amp

This may well be the issue. Modern DACs often have an output level that conforms to the 2 Volt CD Red Book standard, whereas older preamplifiers had a far higher input sensitivity and would clip on the input. My old Quad 33 preamp suffered from this and required a special attenuation cable.

 

[aduarte66]

Good vintage amps are pretty much on a par with current audiophile amps - but they may need a refresh every 30 or so years!

My 40+ year old Quad 606's are still doing fine - I did have them checked out and serviced about 15 years ago...

Probably I will keep them for a secondary system and have them checked.

 

[JeremyFife]

But there is a huge difference between average SPL and what you need for peaks that may be 25 dB above average.

Agreed ... but not enough to regularly drive a 70W @ 8ohm amp into clipping unless the music has a massive dynamic range in the bass (organ music?). It's something I'd want to explore before spending money.

 

[aduarte66]

Hegel and Accuphase are overpriced. Class D amplifiiers are also more energy efficient, and that saves you a bit on the direct electricity bill, but since you live in Portugal potentially also on the air conditioning cost.

That is one the factor that attracted me, the prices are more realistic. Prices in major brands have become absurd.

 

[DanielT]

hello,

Thanks for your reply. In fact I am sitting 4 meters away from my speakers, there are indeed 90,5 db sensitive at 6 ohms, but as measurements from stereophile they can go down to 83db on the low-end, so maybe because of that. Also the amp is about 30 years old.

My budget is about 6 to 7000 euros.

Missed what you said. I checked the test and:

Audiovector specifies the QR 7's anechoic sensitivity as 90.5dB/W/m. My estimate was slightly lower, at 88.7dB/2.83V/m, although this is still higher than average. The QR 7's impedance is specified as 6 ohms. The impedance magnitude (fig.1, solid trace) varied between 5 ohms and 12 ohms in the midrange and treble, with a minimum value of 4.3 ohms between 120Hz and 130Hz. The electrical phase angle (dotted trace) is generally benign, although it does reach –59.75° at 57Hz. Fortunately, the magnitude is high at this frequency, but the effective resistance, or EPDR (footnote 1), still drops below 3 ohms between 57Hz and 140Hz, with a minimum value of 1.8 ohms at 76Hz. As long as the partnering amplifier can drive 4 ohms, the QR 7 shouldn't present it with any drive problems.

Audiovector QR 7 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone with an Earthworks microphone preamplifier to measure the Audiovector QR 7's farfield frequency response and dispersion. I used an Earthworks QTC-40 mike for the nearfield and in-room responses and Dayton...

www.stereophile.com

But 88.7dB/2.83V/m is still reasonably high sensitivity.

..can go down to 83db on the low-end, ..you say but all speakers do that, i.e. fall off in the lowest frequencies. Extremely few speakers that go pancake flat in FR down to 20 Hz.

 

[aduarte66]

A couple of thoughts;

The Benchmark AHB2 is a well regarded, bulletproof, alternative that you might like. Alternatively the manufacturers recommended above are great too. You won't go wrong.

I'd still try to get an answer for why you are experiencing clipping. Even at a 4m listening distance you should only need around 20W to reach your preferred 85dB SPL. I wonder if the output voltage from your Eversolo is too high for your pre-amp. If that is the case, then any new power amp will also pass on that clipped signal.
Have you tried removing the pre-amplifier from your system and running the Eversolo directly into the power amplifier?

Maybe clipping is not the right word, it is probably more distortion and the sound becoming unpleasant with lack of control. Despite the fact that I need a pre-amp to passthrough to my home theater system, I deed try to connect the eversolo directly to the amp, it was a total disaster, no dynamics, very flat and dead sound.

 

[aduarte66]

Agreed ... but not enough to regularly drive a 70W @ 8ohm amp into clipping unless the music has a massive dynamic range in the bass (organ music?). It's something I'd want to explore before spending money.

It happens only in very dynamic music with lots of bass. No problem on jazz session or even classical.

 

[Willem]

My Quad 303 was more or less OK in a 30 sq m room but audibly strained in a 70 sq m room (Dutch houses are quite large). Upgrading to the 606-2 was my first step, and almost enough, but not quite. Ditching the Quad 33 preamp for an RME ADI-2 helped quite a bit for a cleaner sound, and the high pass filter and subwoofers were the icing on the cake.

 

[aduarte66]

Missed what you said. I checked the test and:

Audiovector specifies the QR 7's anechoic sensitivity as 90.5dB/W/m. My estimate was slightly lower, at 88.7dB/2.83V/m, although this is still higher than average. The QR 7's impedance is specified as 6 ohms. The impedance magnitude (fig.1, solid trace) varied between 5 ohms and 12 ohms in the midrange and treble, with a minimum value of 4.3 ohms between 120Hz and 130Hz. The electrical phase angle (dotted trace) is generally benign, although it does reach –59.75° at 57Hz. Fortunately, the magnitude is high at this frequency, but the effective resistance, or EPDR (footnote 1), still drops below 3 ohms between 57Hz and 140Hz, with a minimum value of 1.8 ohms at 76Hz. As long as the partnering amplifier can drive 4 ohms, the QR 7 shouldn't present it with any drive problems.

View attachment 364437View attachment 364438

Audiovector QR 7 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone with an Earthworks microphone preamplifier to measure the Audiovector QR 7's farfield frequency response and dispersion. I used an Earthworks QTC-40 mike for the nearfield and in-room responses and Dayton...

www.stereophile.com

But 88.7dB/2.83V/m is still reasonably high sensitivity.

..can go down to 83db on the low-end, ..you say but all speakers do that, i.e. fall off in the lowest frequencies. Extremely few speakers that go pancake flat in FR down to 20 Hz.

Disregard what I wrote regarding 83db on low-end, what I want to say was this: "still drops below 3 ohms between 57Hz and 140Hz, with a minimum value of 1.8 ohms at 76Hz".

 

[Willem]

It happens only in very dynamic music with lots of bass. No problem on jazz session or even classical.

That suggests a lack of power. If that is the case, you will need a lot more power. Going up to e.g. 2x100 watt will not do it. By the way, gettting your amplifier serviced, and using a high pass filter on the power amplifer and main speakers, plus at least two equalized subwoofers may be an alternative strategy.

 

[aduarte66]

My Quad 303 was more or less OK in a 30 sq m room but audibly strained in a 70 sq m room (Dutch houses are quite large). Upgrading to the 606-2 was my first step, and almost enough, but not quite. Ditching the Quad 33 preamp for an RME ADI-2 helped quite a bit for a cleaner sound, and the high pass filter and subwoofers were the icing on the cake.

It is in dedicated room of 36 sq meters.

 

[Willem]

That is not too large, but not tiny either.

 

[JeremyFife]

A nice, beefy, Purify or Hypex Nx500 will sort you out
My inclination would be to run your Eversolo directly into that new amp, but you said that you have additional requirements.

I wasn't sure what you meant about using your pre-amp for pass-through to your Home Theatre system (I understand the words! not the setup). Perhaps you could describe your full system, music and HT, and we can discuss

 

[aduarte66]

That suggests a lack of power. If that is the case, you will need a lot more power. Going up to e.g. 2x100 watt will not do it. By the way, gettting your amplifier serviced, and using a high pass filter on the power amplifer and main speakers, plus at least two equalized subwoofers may be an alternative strategy.

Lack of power is my impression and feeling. But I´ll rather go for a new powerful amp, my speakers have a quite good bass that can pressurize quite well the room, I even disconnected my REL subwoofer, even in for the movies.

 

[aduarte66]

A nice, beefy, Purify or Hypex Nx500 will sort you out
My inclination would be to run your Eversolo directly into that new amp, but you said that you have additional requirements.

I wasn't sure what you meant about using your pre-amp for pass-through to your Home Theatre system (I understand the words! not the setup). Perhaps you could describe your full system, music and HT, and we can discuss

my main amp and loudspeakers are connected to my Yamaha DSP a2 too, so when watching movies I need to use the auxiliary connection of my pre amp where the Yamaha is connected to run the main amp and speakers. Hope to be understandable.

 

[aduarte66]

Leaving aside what I said in #15 about where the stuff is made, why not this combination. DAC with volume control and PEQ (if you ever want to use that functionality) together with an amp that has a VU meter. Total cost €1,390.

Actually a class AB amp but not physically huge despite that. In any case, I think the VU meters are cool. The power in it is enough for your speakers.

View attachment 364430

SONCOZ SGP1 Stereo Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the SONCOZ stereo class AB power amplifier. It was sent to me by the company about 5 or 6 months ago and costs US $1099. As you see, the unit comes in gorgeous packaging with custom and VU meters befitting of some of the highest end audio products...

audiosciencereview.com

View attachment 364432

View attachment 364433

Topping D50 III Balanced DAC with EQ Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping D50 III balanced stereo DAC with support for parametric equalization. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $229. Sorry for the quality of the picture/display. It is quite dim compared to my photography light and when I tried to...

audiosciencereview.com

SONCOZ SGP1 Power Amplifier Class AB 2x240W 4 Ohm Black - Audiophonics

The Soncoz SGP1 is a massive Class AB amplifier, designed for integration into high-resolution audio systems, which the brand has been working on for three years. In addition to comfortable power, it provides excellent SNR and THD...

www.audiophonics.fr

TOPPING D50 III DAC Black

Topping's new small D50 III desktop DAC now features two ES9039Q2M DAC chips and an XMOS XU-316 USB interface, enabling it to support high-resolution streams up to PCM 32bit 768kHz and DSD512.

www.audiophonics.fr

I´ll have a look at the amp, but still need a pre-amp for the Home theater.

 

[aduarte66]

I am similarly happy with my Quad 606-2, but it was refurbished twice. And at 2x140 watt it has quite a bit more power. In my experience 70 watts is pretty anaemic once you start playing dynamic music in a larger room. In my case, even 2x140 watt was only enough once I added three subwoofers and a high pass filter for a total of 1500 watts. Mind you, this is not for home theatre but just for a classical symphony.
With respect to the need for dsp equalization, I think you should not decide before you have measured the actual in-room response, but maybe you already did.

It is my impression also, 70 watts are not enough. I do not use DSP and my room is measured and treated.