Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 Review (Speaker)

[beagleman]

And whilst both reviewed them at $400, you can get them in the UK for not much over £200.

Absolutely insane vale.

I got mine on a clearance sale of some sort (music direct) for literally $209.00 with my 10% off coupon!

At that price I could not even begin to build it DIY, and have that smooth of a response, AND an enclosure that looks even close to how they are.

 

[Alexx]

Good morning.

The problem is that in Italy on average they cost 400 euros (to be precise I paid 389 euros) this creates different options I'll explain.

At 319 euros there are the Elac Debut 5.3 (Andrew Robinson talks about them a lot)
At 339 euros the Elipson Prosperity 6B
At 410 euros the kef Q1
At 450 euros the Polk R 100

This doesn't help me because I have many other options at lower prices, or significantly better products for a few euros more.

The Polk ES 15 are the only ones around 200 euros.

I have time to return them until the end of January, I have to evaluate what to do, I'm also thinking of keeping the Wharfedale and reducing the Woofer coil to slightly increase the medium range, but it would be the last option, the most uncomfortable, and probably the most expensive.
Thank you very much.

 

[Alexx]

I meant Elipson Prestige Facet 6B...I think the translator got confused

 

[Romario]

Pricey stuff. Lack of competition?

 

[Alexx]

Sorry, I didn't understand, the translator has some problems today.

Did you mean prices too high?

Generally speaking they are all under 350 except for two brands.

If I have to blindly spend 400 euros for a speaker I would like to get the one with the tone that I like best and reflects my musical experiences...

If I paid 200 euros for the 12.1 I would get it right.

Also considering the cost of the speakers we are talking about significantly low figures (before I had Kef R3 Meta and Rega Elici MK5) for various reasons I had to change a lot of things...

I know for sure that now I can only dream of that quality, but optimizing the current system to the maximum is fundamental.
A thousand thanks

 

[Romario]

There's so much choice around that price point and it seems that every country charges different prices. In your example the Elipson are cheaper and the R100 are more expensive than over here ( on sale) in the Netherlands, because there's a lot of competition between retailers. Amazon is never the cheapest on speakers.
Elac new series looks great imo.

 

[Alexx]

You are right.
Prices are very different, probably depends on the various suppliers.

Today I should conclude, I am waiting for answers for:
Elipson Prestige Facet 6B - Euro 319

Elipson XLS7 Euro 420 (perhaps too much for the Marantz 612).

Rega Kyte - Euro 430.

If I don't have confirmation, I'll immediately take the new Elac Debut 5.3 (on promo for 319 Euros).

I listened to them and I really liked them...then I started making too many changes and it created total chaos!

I'll let you know.
A thousand thanks.

 

[regan]

Can the directivity issues be solved with EQ?

 

[Alexx]

Sorry I read that many of you use the equalizer to correct small errors of the speakers ok.

But which equalizer do you use? I can't find them online, I have to use it for each source: CD player - Streamer-Tv so it should have at least 3 inputs.
Thank you very much.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Can the directivity issues be solved with EQ?

No, but...

Look at the measurements in Amir's review again. They show an on-axis dip, but it's only 3dB for a very narrow band, at c.1.75k, and maybe 2dB at c.2.75k. Everything else between 1.5k and 2.5k is 1dB off, maximum.

Now look at estimated in-room response, I'd say the difference is larger, but not a huge amount, with the worst dip at 1.75k being about -4dB.

If you use EQ to pull the whole area from 1.1k to 3k (centred on 2k) up a couple of dB or so, you should be getting extremely flat on-axis response, maybe just over +/-1dB, so that bit is EQ-able. The extra 1-2dB from off axis can't be EQ'd, (to answer your question) but that still leaves you with FR flatter than many speakers costing 2, 3, or even 4 times as much.

And, of course, if you listen in the nearfield (as I do) the influences of the reflected sound diminishes even further. As well as largely sorting the relatively small FR issues, by sitting closer, you don't have to drive them as hard, which reduces distortion (look at the difference between distortion at 76dB and 86dB). Finally, if you use a sub (as you almost certainly will be doing), just look at that 76dB distortion graph, and remove the distortion below 80Hz. Not to mention that not sending 80Hz and below to the speaker will reduce distortion above that figure. Look at Erin's measurements here for distortion with an 80Hz crossover. Note how that -8dB peak at 5k goes all the way down to -25dB.

Bottom line, if you sit close, and can use just a little EQ, these are superb. You then have a £220 speaker with FR c.+/- 1dB from 90Hz to 15kHz, and distortion below 0.5%.

What's not to like?

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Sorry I read that many of you use the equalizer to correct small errors of the speakers ok.

But which equalizer do you use? I can't find them online, I have to use it for each source: CD player - Streamer-Tv so it should have at least 3 inputs.
Thank you very much.

I have a WiiM Ultra (£350). But you can use something as cheap as a WiiM Mini if you only need it for streaming (and have a good DAC already) or a WiiM Pro/Pro Plus (£150/£220) if you need a digital input like a CD player (again, you might not want to use the Pro's DAC, though the Pro Plus should be fine). But the Ultra has all these covered, including HDMI ARC in from your TV. Or a WiiM Amp/Amp Pro, of course, if you want an all-in-one streaming amp solution.

 

[Alexx]

@Yorkshire Mouth:
Okay.

Let's get things in order.

I also have Wiim Ultra, I can use its streamer and connect the TV to this device, the CD player is left out (the only thing I can't equalize).

I don't have an external DAC.

For the Wharfedale speakers, at this point I believe they are not a good match for the Marantz 612.

Furthermore, over time the Tweeter has become too bright, S Z C are sibilant, I can't explain it but it's a speaker that I can't like.

I paid 389 euros for the Wharfedale 12.1 (for 200 euros I probably would have been less fussy) which is the reason that pushes me to be very demanding, considering that for half the cost I had the Polk ES15 and believe me the performance was comparable.. .

Today I ordered the Rega Kyte, found on promotion at 449 euros (a little more than the Italian price of the Wharfedale) I imagine that the Rega are definitely superior.

Over the weekend they also confirmed the Dynaudio Emit 10, I listened to them in a shop and I liked them a lot.

The Dynaudios cost 600 euros in Italy, it's a big price difference compared to the Rega Kytes, then I'll evaluate which of the two to keep.

I no longer have the Elipson Prestige Facet 6B, I read not very good reviews, could I be wrong in basing myself on other people's opinions and tastes?

The Elipsons cost 319 euros.

I don't consider anything else otherwise I will never define.

What do you think?
See you soon, have a nice day.

 

[Romario]

I think that all are more or less side grades. It's not perse that a 100 bucks more expensive speaker is substantially better because of the price difference. But that doesn't mean that you can prefer one over the other. I also think that with a low powered amp you could opt for the most sensitive speaker.
If you auditioned the speaker at the shop make sure to emulate the same setup regarding placement otherwise it will sound different at home.

Now onto the Ultra. If you engage room correction beware; after each measurement you have to reset the eq to flat before you do another. Otherwise, after multiple measurements it gets messy. You can read all about it in the Ultra topics here on ASR.
Then the cd player; connect the digital out to the Ultra instead of to the amp if you want EQ.

 

[beagleman]

No, but...

Look at the measurements in Amir's review again. They show an on-axis dip, but it's only 3dB for a very narrow band, at c.1.75k, and maybe 2dB at c.2.75k. Everything else between 1.5k and 2.5k is 1dB off, maximum.

Now look at estimated in-room response, I'd say the difference is larger, but not a huge amount, with the worst dip at 1.75k being about -4dB.

If you use EQ to pull the whole area from 1.1k to 3k (centred on 2k) up a couple of dB or so, you should be getting extremely flat on-axis response, maybe just over +/-1dB, so that bit is EQ-able. The extra 1-2dB from off axis can't be EQ'd, (to answer your question) but that still leaves you with FR flatter than many speakers costing 2, 3, or even 4 times as much.

And, of course, if you listen in the nearfield (as I do) the influences of the reflected sound diminishes even further. As well as largely sorting the relatively small FR issues, by sitting closer, you don't have to drive them as hard, which reduces distortion (look at the difference between distortion at 76dB and 86dB). Finally, if you use a sub (as you almost certainly will be doing), just look at that 76dB distortion graph, and remove the distortion below 80Hz. Not to mention that not sending 80Hz and below to the speaker will reduce distortion above that figure. Look at Erin's measurements here for distortion with an 80Hz crossover. Note how that -8dB peak at 5k goes all the way down to -25dB.

Bottom line, if you sit close, and can use just a little EQ, these are superb. You then have a £220 speaker with FR c.+/- 1dB from 90Hz to 15kHz, and distortion below 0.5%.

What's not to like?

Totally agree~!
In my real world usage over the last year or so, the directivity "issue" and the "dip" in the 1-3 khz range are not really even all that much OF an issue to begin with.

I spent tons of time doing probably a dozen different EQ profiles, to "fix" the dip, but found in the end, a lot of time I actually preferred the built in dip, or that a very small (maybe 1db EQ) would make some stuff sound better and so on, but overall just not that big of a deal.

This has become one of my favorite small speakers ever.
While keeping in mind, they will NOT do any Deep bass at all, I usually cross mine at around 100 Hz.

Overall output, when one really wants to crank them to get an almost live sound, is also limited, mostly by somewhat noticeable distortion in the "midrange" area, but this it at fairly loud usage, not everyday loud or normal use, but LOUD.

My biggest issue, is the LACK of issues, hence giving me no incentive to "Move up" to something bigger or better. I do own other speakers, and have owned a good bit in the past, but now sort of simplifying my sound set ups, and just finding these "Just right" in many regards.

 

[Alexx]

ok I understand, I would basically use the Wiim Ultra almost like a "Pre".

For speakers I honestly don't understand why this feeling with me Wharfedale.

The Rega Kyte arrive tomorrow considering the fame of the brand, and that they are handmade in the UK I think they are certainly better, I have always read the reviews that praise the mid-high range, for the bass I use the small Cambridge subwoofer.

The Emit 10 are spectacular but as you pointed out they were driven by a significantly more powerful amplifier than my Marantz, among other things they also have low sensitivity.

I'll let you know how I listen to the new Rega speakers.
A thousand thanks.

 

[Romario]

It's not the kill, it's the thrill of the chase haha, please have fun with the speaker comparison journey ( it's a hobby)

 

[Alexx]

@Romario
In fact, this is also the beauty...

We're talking about small amounts, I can't listen in shops, I have no other choice to find a speaker that has the features I'm looking for.

Without considering that they are all on the same price, the Wharfedale in Italy have a price that is too high, for 400 euros there are many other models and it is worth trying and experimenting.
See you soon.

 

[Alexx]

Speakers received and tested.

Acoustically they are magnificent, fabulous midrange, never invasive highs, lower bass than the Wharfedales, for me it is better, they are more controlled and without tail...

On classical music the instruments are more stratified, the voices with greater presence, truly excellent!

As for construction I am truly disappointed, I do not know if I bought a defective model, but the mask glued on the front panel is all crooked and out of square, there are huge spaces of light, if you look at them from above etc. you can see under the rough wooden board between the space.

An incredible job!

I wonder if there is some user on the forum who has a pair so that he can check and tell me if his too are made as badly as construction.

I attach photos.

I repeat as acoustic performance they are phenomenal for my tastes and for the price.
Thank you very much.

 

[Alexx]

Regarding the bass I obviously wanted to say that the Regas have much less bass than the Wharfedales (the translator occasionally goes haywire) but that was to be expected.

 

[Willem]

Even less, therefore.