Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 Review (Speaker)

[Romario]

I both have the Diamond 12.2 and R200. I gather the voicing is the same as their siblings. The difference is that the former is like chocolate and the latter is like vanilla ice cream. In other words, the latter is more neutral and the former is more engaging because of the mid bass extention. Both experienced an upgraded performance on speakerstands 30 cm ( 1 foot) from the frontwall in an allmost perfect triangle from the listening position.

 

[Willem]

I don't know about the Polk but I have heard quite a few generations of the Wharfedale Diamonds and I think they are almost invariably very good value. I have the 220's in a secundary system and they are nice and smooth at 135 euros a pair. I recently bought the Elac dbr62 for our son, and they are better and more expensive (and they need a bit of power).

 

[Alexx]

Generally speaking the Polks are less "colored" than the Wharfedales.

In fact I also confirm the excellent musical quality of the 4.1s if it weren't for that slight lack that I feel in the mids.

Among other things, a fairly evident decline in the graphs inserted in the previous pages.

At this point there are two solutions, the first I get used to the Wharfedale sound and I don't pay attention to it anymore, or try the Elacs or even better the Polk R100s and evaluate.

Honestly I prefer to spend 500 euros well than 370 badly.

I want to point out that I think the Wharfedale 4.1 is a fantastic speaker in all other respects, probably this "sensation" is a design choice of the crossover to give more "warmth" to the speaker.

Do you think it is feasible or crazy to modify the Crossover? Maybe by decreasing the value of the woofer coil it can bring forward more mid range.
Thank you very much.

 

[Penelinfi]

Do you think it is feasible or crazy to modify the Crossover? Maybe by decreasing the value of the woofer coil it can bring forward more mid range.
Thank you very much.

You would probably need to fiddle with both coil and capacitor. It's not guaranteed that you'll prefer the results, and it's going to be pot shot money if you can't simulate/measure things at all.
An alternative is to get an EQ of sorts; if you already have a PC you can use Equalizer APO and peace gui.
Else something like a mini DSP is usually recommended for most versatile EQ

 

[Alexx]

You're right, it's "risky" to make changes without being able to measure the results, I might not like it.

Or I can try little by little, then if I don't like it I put the previous components back.

I live in a studio apartment and don't have space to do a lot of rehearsals.

I saw Erin's review and he also talks about a 2-3Db drop in midrange on the Wharfedale 12.1.

The Elac dice also have this aspect but in a lesser form

For the Polk R100 I'm totally undecided, because with a cost of 500 euros the Kef Q1 Meta or Wharfedale Evo 4.1 also come into play... I have no idea if my Marantz 612 can drive them decently either.

I don't know if I should open a dedicated 3D, here I wouldn't want to lead the discussion to topics other than the title.
Thank you.

 

[Schlippwhip68]

Personally I am not budging from my Wharfedale Diamond 12.2s unless someone randomly throws £1100 through my window like a Spring Santa (the original Bishop version) which if that would be then though unlikely I maybe would consider a pair of Definitive Technology D11 speakers after hearing them against the Monitor Audio Silver 100. So far I see almost everything up to those as a virtual side grade give or take a few pros and cons either way. That might surprise a few people but after owing the 12.2s for around 8 months now I find them real keepers. I find no distortion in the midrange using either CD, Airplay Streaming or Bluetooth.

 

[Alexx]

@Schlippwhip68:
Probably the 12.2 has more mid range than the 12.1 I can't tell you.

Maybe it's my environment that is not good for this type of speaker, but it has a sound that is too "bloated and muddy" on the bass, and a very backward mid range, to hear it better I have to turn up the volume a lot but with medium/low volume we are just not there (as a mid range it is even inferior to Polk ES15 that I had).

Could it be a defective speaker? I don't know, or the Marantz 612 amplifier is not suitable as a match...

I found a promotion for the new Kef Q1 Meta, if the seller confirms availability I think I'll take those, I've always been happy with Kef and they fit into the budget of 500 euros, higher figures for other types of speakers I don't want to spend them because I wouldn't use them 100% with the small amplifier that I use.
I'll let you know, thanks.

 

[beagleman]

@Schlippwhip68:
Probably the 12.2 has more mid range than the 12.1 I can't tell you.

Maybe it's my environment that is not good for this type of speaker, but it has a sound that is too "bloated and muddy" on the bass, and a very backward mid range, to hear it better I have to turn up the volume a lot but with medium/low volume we are just not there (as a mid range it is even inferior to Polk ES15 that I had).

Could it be a defective speaker? I don't know, or the Marantz 612 amplifier is not suitable as a match...

I found a promotion for the new Kef Q1 Meta, if the seller confirms availability I think I'll take those, I've always been happy with Kef and they fit into the budget of 500 euros, higher figures for other types of speakers I don't want to spend them because I wouldn't use them 100% with the small amplifier that I use.
I'll let you know, thanks.

The mid-range "Dip" of the current Diamond series speakers, was completely intentional, and part of the crossover, according to Karl Heinz Fink, the speaker engineer and designer of this series.

The dip, is not that deep nor "that" big of a deal sound wise, it simply makes it a little less aggressive in the range we are more sensitive to (about 1-3khz) and after experimenting for hours with Eq to fill in the dip, I found I actually prefer the built in dip, OR, like just a tad of EQ, maybe 1db in this range.

Polk in general tends to have a slight boost in this same area, so you are hearing almost opposites. One a bit of a dip, one a bit of a boost.

 

[Romario]

Maybe it's my environment that is not good for this type of speaker, but it has a sound that is too "bloated and muddy" on the bass, and a very backward mid range, to hear it better I have to turn up the volume a lot but with medium/low volume we are just not there (as a mid range it is even inferior to Polk ES15 that I had).

Before buying new speakers I would play with the position, even temporarely. Tilt them, move them, toe in them, level the tweeter to ear hight, move listening position etc. Because if the environment is sub optimal than other speakers may suffer the same issues allthoug the kefs are more forgiving in directivity issues. The review on page 1 allready mentions these issues with the 12.1 but not as severe as you describe.

 

[Alexx]

Exactly, thank you.

I'm doing several tests to see if I can find a solution before making the change.

I'll let you know how soon.
Thank you very much.

 

[Alexx]

Put at ear height it's a little better...

I have a feeling that with time they are opening up a little in the midrange, is it possible or am I getting used to the new timbre of these speakers?

They are new, they are a week old, they have played about 50-60 hours.
Thanks.

 

[Willem]

New speakers are fine after a few minuites, no more. The rest is your imagination.

 

[Alexx]

Probably a few minutes are not enough.

Being mechanical parts surely several hours lead to a correct running-in...

in any case I felt strange vibrations, I checked (I attach a photo) and as you can see the central reinforcement rod was cut too short.

On the right alltop it is glued directly to the cabinet, while the left side the reinforcement was glued on a small wooden thickness (see green arrow) while the thickness itself was not glued on the cabinet (see red arrow) but only wedged, the reinforcement is not even straight.

An absurd piece of crap never seen! this has demotivated me a lot on the real quality and quality control.....with the occasion I can also put the photo of the Crossover, I don't know much about it but given the quantity of components it seems well made, even if I don't know if it should be judged by how many elements it has.

I will change brands, but other products also seem to be very cheap, at this point the Polk ES 15 will come out at only 200 euros (wahrfedale cost double) or the Elac 5.3 at 319 euros.
See you soon.

 

[Schlippwhip68]

The mid-range "Dip" of the current Diamond series speakers, was completely intentional, and part of the crossover, according to Karl Heinz Fink, the speaker engineer and designer of this series.

The dip, is not that deep nor "that" big of a deal sound wise, it simply makes it a little less aggressive in the range we are more sensitive to (about 1-3khz) and after experimenting for hours with Eq to fill in the dip, I found I actually prefer the built in dip, OR, like just a tad of EQ, maybe 1db in this range.

Polk in general tends to have a slight boost in this same area, so you are hearing almost opposites. One a bit of a dip, one a bit of a

The 12.2 is probably my least EQed speaker.

 

[beagleman]

@Schlippwhip68:
Probably the 12.2 has more mid range than the 12.1 I can't tell you.

Maybe it's my environment that is not good for this type of speaker, but it has a sound that is too "bloated and muddy" on the bass, and a very backward mid range, to hear it better I have to turn up the volume a lot but with medium/low volume we are just not there (as a mid range it is even inferior to Polk ES15 that I had).

Could it be a defective speaker? I don't know, or the Marantz 612 amplifier is not suitable as a match...

I found a promotion for the new Kef Q1 Meta, if the seller confirms availability I think I'll take those, I've always been happy with Kef and they fit into the budget of 500 euros, higher figures for other types of speakers I don't want to spend them because I wouldn't use them 100% with the small amplifier that I use.
I'll let you know, thanks.

alexx, not sure if this "could" be the case, but perhaps you are just used to more colored speakers and prefer a bit of a high end or mid boost in the sound.

The 12.1, according to Amir and Erin and my personal observations and measurements, are VERY neutral, with only a small dip implemented in the 1-3kHz range.
But speakers preferences are very personal and many factors will influence what we want or prefer.

I can understand if you want to give up on them, but after a year, I still love mine and almost see them as an entry level reference speaker.
I have compared them to numerous speakers under $1,500 and while a few were better in some key ways, none had that smooth ideal sound I expect AND nearly as low of a price.


Mine are used with a sub that goes down to about 26hz fairly flat, (crossed at 100hz) so that alleviates issues with bass and limited volume.

 

[beagleman]

Personally I am not budging from my Wharfedale Diamond 12.2s unless someone randomly throws £1100 through my window like a Spring Santa (the original Bishop version) which if that would be then though unlikely I maybe would consider a pair of Definitive Technology D11 speakers after hearing them against the Monitor Audio Silver 100. So far I see almost everything up to those as a virtual side grade give or take a few pros and cons either way. That might surprise a few people but after owing the 12.2s for around 8 months now I find them real keepers. I find no distortion in the midrange using either CD, Airplay Streaming or Bluetooth.

I have heard the 12.2, but not side by side with my 12.1s
I would say quite similar, but kinda better bass overall.

Where I differed a bit with Erin, I have heard the Lintons, and honestly they were fairly similar to my 12.1 but with more bass, deeper bass and more overall output level ability. He was not blown away by the 12.1, but loved the Lintons?

I would love to hear the 12.3 or 12.4 with dual woofers, I have considered buying both and returning one, but wife says too much stuff in house now..!

 

[beagleman]

I checked (I attach a photo) and as you can see the central reinforcement rod was cut too short.

On the right alltop it is glued directly to the cabinet, while the left side the reinforcement was glued on a small wooden thickness (see green arrow) while the thickness itself was not glued on the cabinet (see red arrow) but only wedged, the reinforcement is not even straight.

An absurd piece of crap never seen! this has demotivated me a lot on the real quality and quality control.....with the occasion I can also put the photo of the Crossover, I don't know much about it but given the quantity of components it seems well made, even if I don't know if it should be judged by how many elements it has.

I will change brands, but other products also seem to be very cheap, at this point the Polk ES 15 will come out at only 200 euros (wahrfedale cost double) or the Elac 5.3 at 319 euros.
See you soon.

I am now quite tempted to check mine, but hesitate to remove the woofer, as I seem to always make some visible "Mark" from removing it or the trim rings around woofer hiding the screws!!

I assume that pic of the damaged reinforcement, is through the removed woofer opening?

 

[Alexx]

@beagleman:

Exactly I am with Woofer removed.

If you are careful to remove the ring (I did it with my fingernails) it comes off very easily, if you start from the bottom it is easier (I don't know why) it has small plastic cylinders that fit into the holes of the cabinet.

I could also put a bit of glue and probably I would have solved it...

About the sound you are right, it is very subjective, the problem is that I listen to a lot of classical music and various singer-songwriters, where the mid range is fundamental to better detect the voices or some instruments, like the piano, in particular on these frequencies I hear a significantly recessed sound, for the highs and lows they are fabulous.

The Elac did not give me this sensation (Erin also seems to have written a good review on this speaker).

The diamond 12.1 remind me of the Polk ES15 (which cost half) I returned them precisely because of the slightly recessed mid range.
Thank you very much.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I can understand if you want to give up on them, but after a year, I still love mine and almost see them as an entry level reference speaker.
I have compared them to numerous speakers under $1,500 and while a few were better in some key ways, none had that smooth ideal sound I expect AND nearly as low of a price.

And whilst both reviewed them at $400, you can get them in the UK for not much over £200.

Absolutely insane vale.

 

[Willem]

And whilst both reviewed them at $400, you can get them in the UK for not much over £200.

And the 220s were 125 euros a pair in the Netherlands. The 12,1s now 300 euros.