Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 Review (Speaker)

[Dumu]

What you experienced is called brain-in. Not burn-in.

No one has ever shown with measurements that burn in is real. Just because you strongly believe it, doesn't make it true.

I've owned a lot of speakers and these along with one subwoofer are the only ones I have ever noticed any change. I don't have any way to proof it, but in the 12.1's case this was not something you could imagine. They went from nice balanced bass to so overkill that you couldn't use them like that. I actually went to first check if our kids had messed up with the subwoofer, but it wasn't even on.

From the 12.3's I have measurements from the listening position to confirm what I was hearing. They don't really offer any proof tho, as you could just use tone controls or EQ to achieve similar changes in the graphs.

I believe the cause for this change is just initially stiff suspension in the speaker elements. I had these speakers initially in our bedroom and they were never played really loud. Maybe they would've have loosened up in minutes or even seconds with enough excursion, who knows, but with soft playing it seems to take some time.

 

[Salt]

I'm just talking about my subjective feelings. I've now ended up with the Elac DBR62 and while they're nothing special, overall I don't mind anything about them.

Never had a chance to listen to some Elacs, but their concepts make sense (on the paper, and they are long enough in the business).
But if You really want to know what is going on in Your listening room, take that old but serious ASR-Recommendation into account: "Buy a Umik and measure".
(And don't blame a speaker for sounding bad if it's the room that does )

 

[KU713]

I had umik. But I found out that the balanced levels can be so large and have so many different frequencies (everything in the measurement is averaged) that it is not possible to achieve it with a 10-band PQ, for example in Wii. And I found out that the speakers don't even like it when we force them to play differently than they are set to.

 

[Salt]

You should educate Yourself about measurements with microphones ... no more comment...

 

[Michou]

You should educate Yourself about measurements with microphones ... no more comment...

Always refreshing to see such passion for audio — and that unshakable confidence in one’s expertise. Now, if only the same energy and enthusiasm were devoted to basic courtesy and constructive dialogue, we might all benefit a bit more. That kind of tone doesn’t really help foster a productive discussion. After all, a touch of tact and understanding (what we old-timers liked to call online etiquette) never compromised anyone’s technical credibility.

 

[Salt]

Always refreshing to see such passion for audio — and that unshakable confidence in one’s expertise. Now, if only the same energy and enthusiasm were devoted to basic courtesy and constructive dialogue, we might all benefit a bit more. That kind of tone doesn’t really help foster a productive discussion. After all, a touch of tact and understanding — what we old-timers like to call online etiquette — never compromised anyone’s technical credibility.

... constructive dialogue .. was enough at this point ...

 

[Svend P]

I believe the cause for this change is just initially stiff suspension in the speaker elements.

I already once provided you with a link with proof that you are imagining things. Please have the courtesy and read up on the subject before spreading this myth anymore.

Do Audio Speakers Break-in?

There are a lot of "everybody knows" type of rules in audio with one of them being that audio gear in general, and speakers in the specific, benefit from "break-in." That is, their performance improves after some time. This is mostly touted by audiophiles but manufacturers also fuel this...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Dumu]

I already once provided you with a link with proof that you are imagining things. Please have the courtesy and read up on the subject before spreading this myth anymore.

Do Audio Speakers Break-in?

There are a lot of "everybody knows" type of rules in audio with one of them being that audio gear in general, and speakers in the specific, benefit from "break-in." That is, their performance improves after some time. This is mostly touted by audiophiles but manufacturers also fuel this...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I have read amir's post, yet it does not in any way offer proof that no speaker could break in after playing it for the first time. Like I said the break in could have happened almost immediately if the speaker would have been played more loudly with enough excursion for the drivers. The change in 12.1's was so huge that there is no way it could have been imagined, and the 12.3's change I was even able to confirm with measurements.

I have also had one car subwoofer element, that had very low output at first. So much so that I had to crank up the amp gain to max to have any bass. On my 15min drive to town I had to stop twice to lower the gain as the head unit adjustment weren't enough. In the end I ended up with gain set to around 1/3 of full with head unit set to 0, compared to maxing both out initially. Maxing them after the initial change would probably broken the car or the subwoofer. Are you saying that is also just my imagination?

 

[Svend P]

Cool story. From the thread I linked to:

Alan Shaw, Harbeth owner and designer:

"Actually, the real situation is pretty basic stuff. The (usually) yellow suspension ring hidden under the cone, called in the trade the spider, is nothing more or less than resin impregnated woven fabric.

When flexed a few times, the sheet of resin presumably takes on micro fissures, and once that process has occurred - over perhaps the first few hours or so under normal home use, accelerated in the test lab by playing very loud - the fundamental resonance frequency of the woofer drops by a few percent (utterly inaudible, difficult to even measure) and that's it, forever. Any perception that the sound has subjectively improved after hiours, days or weeks is entirely and totally in the listener's imagination. They may well truly believe that, buit it is nothing more than familiarisation, a very common human experience. When I changed car recently I was amazed at the ride, the power and the handling. Two weeks later, it all seemed perfectly unremarkable to me."

and

When I had the HiFi shop in the mid 1980s, we had a lot of 'speakers on demo, and at that time people mostly preferred to take away the ones they heard rather than a factory sealed box, encouraged by the magazine at the time. That meant that we rotated our stock regularly, which was good as it meant our demo equipment never got scruffy but it also meant we heard loudspeakers which had been used for a fair few hours, and those right out of the box. I can say we were never aware of there being any difference between them. I concluded at the time that burn-in wasn't anything to get exercised about, whether loudspeakers or indeed electronics.

Andrew Jones says pretty much exactly the same thing in these interviews. Speakers (specifically the spider and surround) "break in" within a matter of seconds or minutes, and the change is measurable, but not necessarily perceptible.



I'm in the camp of it taking X hours for a person to acclimate to the new sound and/or convince him/herself the money was not wasted.

 

[Dumu]

Cool story. From the thread I linked to:

and

I've read those replys and I agree that for most speakers that is the case. But then I have these cases where the change is so obvious that it cannot be explained in any other way than that the speaker's output changed after playing it loud for a while. I've purchased a lot of speakers and headphones and those are the only cases where I've noticed any real change.

But as I said, I cannot proof this with any undisputable evidence, so this is just my personal experience and you can make whatever you want out of it. I think it would be interesting to see how many other Diamond 12.x owners notice any change, and better yet if they could for example measure the output right out of the box and after some time of loud playing.

 

[Romario]

I've read those replys and I agree that for most speakers that is the case. But then I have these cases where the change is so obvious that it cannot be explained in any other way than that the speaker's output changed after playing it loud for a while. I've purchased a lot of speakers and headphones and those are the only cases where I've noticed any real change.

But as I said, I cannot proof this with any undisputable evidence, so this is just my personal experience and you can make whatever you want out of it. I think it would be interesting to see how many other Diamond 12.x owners notice any change, and better yet if they could for example measure the output right out of the box and after some time of loud playing.

I did, and indeed the only set out of my collection. It went from fun to more fun. But why you need the validation is beyond me.

 

[Salt]

It's the stiffness of the surrounds plus the stiffness of the spider: both can be 'loosened' via burn-in esp. with woofers, but depends on the material they are made of, and, if at all, any change could be revertable after a period of no use.
So, there are cases where burn-in makes sense, and others are not (even if a very engaged member here did not refuse to put the speakers into the fridge before measurements )

 

[Dumu]

It's the stiffness of the surroundings plus the stiffness of the spider: both can be 'loosened' via burn-in esp. with woofers, but depends on the material they are made of, and, if at all, any change could be revertable after a period of no use.
So, there are cases where burn-in makes sense, and others are not (even if a very engaged member here did not refuse to put the speakers into the fridge before measurements )

Haha. Was there any noticeable effect when frozen? Here in Finland you sometimes have to start the car at -30deg celsius and sometimes it feels like you aren't getting the full output at first. Altho the speakers probably warm up pretty fast especially if they are indoors, so it might be hard to measure the effect?

 

[Salt]

Haha. Was there any noticeable effect when frozen? Here in Finland you sometimes have to start the car at -30deg celsius and sometimes it feels like you aren't getting the full output at first. Altho the speakers probably warm up pretty fast especially if they are indoors, so it might be hard to measure the effect?

If You search the forum You will find the thread and the results, but I can give a hint: it didn't change very much

 

[beagleman]

Wharfedale speakers have none of the qualities of what is called hi-fi. They don't have good balance, they don't have tonality, they don't have color, nor any other quality that would amaze you. Probably just a lot of money for marketing. I note that I had 12.0, so my opinion is only for these.

IF anything, they are VERY neutral, smooth and free of distortion, at least at low to moderate levels.
Nothing stands out as bad and nothing is impressive, other than their clean neutral sound.

 

[ricardomontalbahn77]

IF anything, they are VERY neutral, smooth and free of distortion, at least at low to moderate levels.
Nothing stands out as bad and nothing is impressive, other than their clean neutral sound.

Agreed for the 12.1 which I own.

 

[Schlippwhip68]

Agreed for the 12.1 which I own.

I would go far as to say that the 12 series is probably one of the best value speakers to come along in the last ten years. I’m talking about the average consumers who wants a decent pair of speakers, well built and will last. I have had the 12.2 now sold on but liked them quite a bit.
The do have a lot to like especially after regular use. Pair them up with a bit of know how and the 12 series are pretty hard to sell on. It’s a just a great speaker which I personally would not say is cheap as some might but certainly one of the most fairly priced boxes today and I never felt short changed pulling them out of the box. A solid choice. I now use a pair of Q Acoustic 3020i and today the 3060s sub is arriving but again although some would disagree, these are also decent speakers without spending silly money no offence to the rich I do understand economic relativity. Looking forward to setting up this afternoon.

 

[Willem]

I have Diamond 220s in a secundary system, and they are excellent budget speakers that I could easily live with. Budget speakers have improved so much during the last few decades. Of course, the many times more expensive Harbeth P3ESRs in my study are much better, and the Quad 2805 electrostats with three subwoofers in our living room are better again. But for the money?

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Look at the bottom of Amir’s review. The 12.1s hold their own against speakers costing $1,000.

And, as I like to point out, those $1,000 speakers will cost you £1,000 in the UK, but the 12.1s are only £250, and can usually be had for £225.

 

[Palladium]

I have Diamond 220s in a secundary system, and they are excellent budget speakers that I could easily live with. Budget speakers have improved so much during the last few decades. Of course, the many times more expensive Harbeth P3ESRs in my study are much better, and the Quad 2805 electrostats with three subwoofers in our living room are better again. But for the money?

Don't forget there are also entire sections on this planet where there simply isn't enough residential room for expensive speakers to shine.