Wait for Truthear Zero 2 or go up a tier?

[Dreamfull]

Hello there, fellow audiophiles

Long time reader, first time poster. I need an advice and hope with my limited experience and knowledge to convey my taste and expectations.


I have bought several very budget head/earphones long time ago using recommendations from the forum, the last being 7hz Crin's Zero 2, which is the reference give or take.

I have listened to extremely resolving handmade deck, tube pre-amp/amplifier, which are being sold in the ball park for 15-20k$ as a system on eBay. They were hooked up to vintage high end Tannoy speakers, and I was blown away by so many things. Soundstage, resolution, liveliness, fast and controlled bass, the way you can pick placement of instruments in the recording studio, and many more, you know it. I still have fairly decent hearing, can hear up to 15khz, used to be higher though. I enjoy wide range of music, depending on mood can be just club/party electronical, Hip-hop to Jazz/Blues or just enjoying the quality of a playback and system.
I'm listening strictly from UAPP streaming Tidal, through Jcally JM12 flashed with Fiio's JA11 firmware, and I'm using this PEQ only to tune down the boomy bass of the Zero 2s.
Filter 1: ON LSC Fc 105.0 Hz Gain -1.3 dB Q 0.70
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 69.6 Hz Gain 0.9 dB Q 1.51
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 165.9 Hz Gain -2.2 dB Q 0.86
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 282.5 Hz Gain -0.4 dB Q 1.79

Generally they are decent, wouldn't say they bring any excitement, mostly impressive clarity on good mastered electronical and hip-hop music. I'm still not sure that I'm into the harman curve on the upper end, but with my limited listening experience I tend to be with the impression I like good forward treble and even ringy/zingy tweeters, obviously I love clean deep bass too. So V-shape listener? Sadly not really sure yet.

My dilemma is should I wait for the Truthear 2's and potently enjoy them for some time and then the hunger to look for something better to come, or currently I can get something that I will enjoy for quite some time in the range of 150$, maybe stretch it to 200$ for some value monster (my wife will kill me if I spend more ).


The only options I see potentially from reviews are Truthear Nova or Simgoot Supermix 4, more leaning to the SM4s. I don't think the planar tweets will be a problem I actually might really like them, and I still can tone them down with PEQ if they are a bit too much for my ears. Foam tips too can calm them down I guess. Does really going for the upper tier will make audible difference or there will be any excitement/novelty just to hear your music library once again. Hope I managed to detail roughly my taste and amateur understanding in the IEMs Hi-fi.


Cheers

 

[threni]

Zero 2's connected to your phone via usb -> 3.5mm Apple adapter will perform better than all that expensive handmade tube nonsense and not cost $20k etc.
"wouldn't say they bring any excitement" I mean, they'll bring whatever you give them. Sounds like maybe you could play around with EQ some more. I have the Zero 2's and I played around quite a lot with the EQ but ended up going with essentially Amir's from the review:

gain -2
1: peak, 200hz, gain -2, q 2
2: peak, 6040hz, gain 2, q 3

No excitement missing from noisy stuff, and enough bass for quiet classical etc. But there's a world of EQ possibilities out there, and given that you're open to EQ I'd recommend against spending loads of money on more IEMs/headphones. It seems a correlation between cost and performance doesn't exist.

 

[Dazerdoreal]

I think it is misleading that the Zero 2 is considered to be the cheap "go-to IEM" for the majority in this forums.

There are Crinacles own measurements:

Crinacle's 711 Graph Tool | Hangout.Audio

Compare graphs from the world's largest public database of IEC60318-4 IEM measurements, maintained by Crinacle.

graph.hangout.audio

It has a clear intentional warm/dark tilt.
It is extremely well-executed, so it is not wrong but still clearly a coloration. But it is absolutely not a neutral or even a harman-ish IEM by default.
(I observed more than once that Amirs measurements tend to appear less bassy than on other rigs.)

While the distortion of the Zero 2 is exceptionally low for the price, it is also still below the audible threshold on many other budget IEMs. Among the good ones it does not make a difference in practice.

IEMs, even budget IEMs, are tuned so well nowadys that it should not be necessary to EQ if you find the right one.

Edit:
That said, you can play around with EQ to test what you are really looking for.

 

[Roland68]

Hello there, fellow audiophiles

Long time reader, first time poster. I need an advice and hope with my limited experience and knowledge to convey my taste and expectations.


I have bought several very budget head/earphones long time ago using recommendations from the forum, the last being 7hz Crin's Zero 2, which is the reference give or take.

I have listened to extremely resolving handmade deck, tube pre-amp/amplifier, which are being sold in the ball park for 15-20k$ as a system on eBay. They were hooked up to vintage high end Tannoy speakers, and I was blown away by so many things. Soundstage, resolution, liveliness, fast and controlled bass, the way you can pick placement of instruments in the recording studio, and many more, you know it. I still have fairly decent hearing, can hear up to 15khz, used to be higher though. I enjoy wide range of music, depending on mood can be just club/party electronical, Hip-hop to Jazz/Blues or just enjoying the quality of a playback and system.
I'm listening strictly from UAPP streaming Tidal, through Jcally JM12 flashed with Fiio's JA11 firmware, and I'm using this PEQ only to tune down the boomy bass of the Zero 2s.
Filter 1: ON LSC Fc 105.0 Hz Gain -1.3 dB Q 0.70
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 69.6 Hz Gain 0.9 dB Q 1.51
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 165.9 Hz Gain -2.2 dB Q 0.86
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 282.5 Hz Gain -0.4 dB Q 1.79

Generally they are decent, wouldn't say they bring any excitement, mostly impressive clarity on good mastered electronical and hip-hop music. I'm still not sure that I'm into the harman curve on the upper end, but with my limited listening experience I tend to be with the impression I like good forward treble and even ringy/zingy tweeters, obviously I love clean deep bass too. So V-shape listener? Sadly not really sure yet.

My dilemma is should I wait for the Truthear 2's and potently enjoy them for some time and then the hunger to look for something better to come, or currently I can get something that I will enjoy for quite some time in the range of 150$, maybe stretch it to 200$ for some value monster (my wife will kill me if I spend more ).


The only options I see potentially from reviews are Truthear Nova or Simgoot Supermix 4, more leaning to the SM4s. I don't think the planar tweets will be a problem I actually might really like them, and I still can tone them down with PEQ if they are a bit too much for my ears. Foam tips too can calm them down I guess. Does really going for the upper tier will make audible difference or there will be any excitement/novelty just to hear your music library once again. Hope I managed to detail roughly my taste and amateur understanding in the IEMs Hi-fi.


Cheers

The logical next step for me in terms of IEMs would be the TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero:Red and/or the Hidizs MP145. Both fit your budget, possibly together. You can find test reports here in the forum.
I own all 3 by the way.

These two threads could be helpful.
Best 'Bang for your buck' IEM - Poll
What IEMs do you own?

 

[Dreamfull]

I think it is misleading that the Zero 2 is considered to be the cheap "go-to IEM" for the majority in this forums.

There are Crinacles own measurements:

Crinacle's 711 Graph Tool | Hangout.Audio

Compare graphs from the world's largest public database of IEC60318-4 IEM measurements, maintained by Crinacle.

graph.hangout.audio

It has a clear intentional warm/dark tilt.
It is extremely well-executed, so it is not wrong but still clearly a coloration. But it is absolutely not a neutral or even a harman-ish IEM by default.
(I observed more than once that Amirs measurements tend to appear less bassy than on other rigs.)

While the distortion of the Zero 2 is exceptionally low for the price, it is also still below the audible threshold on many other budget IEMs. Among the good ones it does not make a difference in practice.

IEMs, even budget IEMs, are tuned so well nowadys that it should not be necessary to EQ if you find the right one.

Edit:
That said, you can play around with EQ to test what you are really looking for.

First time seeing this website, is the default target Harman?

I have tried one PEQ which was Harman target for the highs only and it was really bright for me on my Zero's, even keeping the stock boosted bass.

 

[Jimbob54]

First time seeing this website, is the default target Harman?

I have tried one PEQ which was Harman target for the highs only and it was really bright for me on my Zero's, even keeping the stock boosted bass.

Well that's the target on your screen shot but you can change it. That's for his 711 measurements. Another part of the site has his 5128 measurements. The default target on that is a diffuse field variant

 

[Dazerdoreal]

First time seeing this website, is the default target Harman?

I have tried one PEQ which was Harman target for the highs only and it was really bright for me on my Zero's, even keeping the stock boosted bass.

Harman is the default target on IEMs, yes. The measurements on audiosciencereview are based on this target.

Many people indeed do consider it to be a bit bright. At the moment there is some debating going on because a new measurement rig came up.

The old rig was the "711", the new rig is the "5128". It is considered to be more precise. To put it simply, research based on the 5128 measurements indicate that the Harman target has not enough lower mids. So right now some people try to create an updated target for the 5128, but I'd say these are still rather prototypes. There is no common standard yet.

You can play around with various 5128 targets here:

Crinacle's 5128 Graph Tool | Hangout.Audio

Compare graphs from the world's largest public database of ITU-T P.57 Type 4.3 IEM measurements, maintained by Crinacle.

graph.hangout.audio

That said, there is always some variation based on your ear. Above around 8k the measurements become very inaccurate and very dependent on your ears and your ear tips.
So if you EQ'd your Zero 2 exactly to this target line, you might unintentionally have added a new treble peak.

 

[Dreamfull]

Well that's the target on your screen shot but you can change it. That's for his 711 measurements. Another part of the site has his 5128 measurements. The default target on that is a diffuse field variant

Amazing I quickly found out at what my years can stand and like. Generally is the Harman whole range of bass, and the treble and specially air of Neutral 2023. The treble of Harman is way too much for me.

Lower and upper midrange is something that I'll need way more listening experience to find what gets me.

Then it begs the question, is something like Zero Red 2DDs configuration really enough to let's say get the 90% or I'll really enjoy and notice the extra 5% of something like the Nova's or Supermix 4 with their more "exotic" driver configuration and better technicalities?

 

[markanini]

I didn't find the 3x price of Nova vs Zero and Red gave me 3x better sound. More like 1.5x, so not really worth it IMO. I prefer Hexa most of the Truthear range, I tried them all, but your preferences might be different.

 

[Ste_S]

Generally they are decent, wouldn't say they bring any excitement, mostly impressive clarity on good mastered electronical and hip-hop music. I'm still not sure that I'm into the harman curve on the upper end, but with my limited listening experience I tend to be with the impression I like good forward treble and even ringy/zingy tweeters, obviously I love clean deep bass too. So V-shape listener? Sadly not really sure yet.

In your position, I'd just experiment with cheaper IEMs in the short term until you find a sound signature you like and that you can tweak with some EQ.

Unless you're lucky and have a pretty standard ear canal shape, I'd also experiment to find a fit that gives you a good seal and is comfortable. The current Truthear nozzle size works really well for me to get a good seal; however, it sounds like the new Zero Blue 2's are going for smaller nozzle, which is probably not going to work for me.

 

[Dreamfull]

In your position, I'd just experiment with cheaper IEMs in the short term until you find a sound signature you like and that you can tweak with some EQ.

Unless you're lucky and have a pretty standard ear canal shape, I'd also experiment to find a fit that gives you a good seal and is comfortable. The current Truthear nozzle size works really well for me to get a good seal; however, it sounds like the new Zero Blue 2's are going for smaller nozzle, which is probably not going to work for me.

Yeap I have some considerations about this too, my ear canal is on the bigger size. On the Zero 2s with the red tips, I just about get perfect fitment, but nothing tight or firm. Any other tip below on size and they fall off.

Wouldn't it be possible with 3rd party extra large silicone tips to get proper fitment in such case?

And one more question, wouldn't be possible EQing the Zero 2s wirh UAPP 11 band PEQ to roughly find mine sweet spot? Or they aren't that much EQuable and the end result won't be very representative?

 

[Dreamfull]

Just found out by accident Zero Blues 2 frequency response and after EQing the Zero 2s I found out what was missing from them for me, it was everything above 8k and by the looks of it both Supermix 4 and the upcoming Blue 2 are the signature I'm looking for.

Will stay true to my practice of listening the forum for such a long time and will just wait for Blue 2s. The Zero Red being praised so much, I'm sure they won't disappoint with the new ones! If there any slight issues, I guess 5 band PEQ will take care of it.

Fingers crossed the Jcally JM12 will be able to drive them to decent levels of volume.

Thanks guys for the advices and sharing those websites, I knew this was the place to look for help.

 

[mc.god]

And one more question, wouldn't be possible EQing the Zero 2s wirh UAPP 11 band PEQ to roughly find mine sweet spot? Or they aren't that much EQuable and the end result won't be very representative?

Zero 2 have extremely low distortion on entire spectrum and a smooth FR with no large dips or peaks so they are one of the best basis to experiment with PEQ to any target you want.

 

[Heinrich]

So V-shape listener? Sadly not really sure yet.

It is fun to collect IEMs because they are often beautiful, sometimes cheap and in general successfull. But as you have the opportunity why not equalize to taste. The most prominent "target", the Harman, is based on just that: subjective preference, rather than objective correctness. There is no correctness, and I agree to a certain, limited degree, fully.

The wiggles in the upper treble are a mystery for many, and hence cannot yet be addressed scientifically. A fail on the science side. No advice can be given. Again, try to equalize to taste. The Zero:2 is a very good basis to do that, the is no tier "up" there, just personal features of the ears in connection to the IEM's design. It is the connection that counts, and for the time being it seems there are for one some costly exceptions, and second a plethora of more or less well done devices, all a bit different. The Zero:2 is one of the best, that lucky we actually are.

 

[Ste_S]

Yeap I have some considerations about this too, my ear canal is on the bigger size. On the Zero 2s with the red tips, I just about get perfect fitment, but nothing tight or firm. Any other tip below on size and they fall off.

Wouldn't it be possible with 3rd party extra large silicone tips to get proper fitment in such case?

And one more question, wouldn't be possible EQing the Zero 2s wirh UAPP 11 band PEQ to roughly find mine sweet spot? Or they aren't that much EQuable and the end result won't be very representative?

Sometimes not. I bought a pair of Simgot EW100P, and I just can't get a seal with them. Either with the stock tips, XL Moondrop Springtips or XL Spinfits.

At least for me, if I can't get a good seal with the stock tips, then I'm also going to struggle with third party tips.

Tanzgu Wan'er SG Studio, and Truthear's Hola, Gate, Zero:Red and Hexa all work for me with the stock tips.
Moondrop Chu II, 7hz Zero and Zero 2 and Simgot EW100P I struggle with stock tips, and third party.